Spectacular.
I suppose Nahuan, and native-ish beliefs will survive much better in this timeline's Mexico?
I suppose Nahuan, and native-ish beliefs will survive much better in this timeline's Mexico?
Chaos TL: A world without Genghis Khan's conquests (finished!)
- Thread starter Max Sinister
- Start date
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- Tags
- genghiskhan
Sounds strange to me, Max: in English it may be Republic of nobles of Kumania...
Dvoryans are nobles, aristocracy...or I missed something?
I suppose that this Kumania is something like OTL Poland.
Those bars are really annoying, by the way. Very hard to see how things actually are, though they do give a good feel for the results of the war.
Stalker
Banned
Yes, I thought the same too. But Poland nonetheless was a kingdom of elected kings, althouth the Sejm and the magnates did whatever they pleased. What I don't understand is how Kiev is going to take it easy without imposing its rule over those lands. Maybe, I was inattentive...
12. Science / Summary / Map of the 17th century
Max Sinister
Banned
Thanks to all. As said in the first post, I'll continue this TL until the year 2000 or today's tech level is reached, whichever comes first.
Yes, the Nahuatl language in Mexico will survive, or is at least stronger than OTL. No, they don't sacrifice people anymore - they were catholized (by France) since the Great Occidental War in the 16th century.
Kumania is the southern Ukraine between Dnepr and southern Bug. Dvoryans... I didn't find a better word yet, I had believed for unknown reasons that this meant "warrior", and they are the Cossacks of TTL. So that's a Dvoryan republic - a Cossack state. BTW, Nobles republics aren't that uncommon - Poland-Lithuania was very much like that, and ITTL Aragon and Norway became nobles' republics (or elective monarchies, if you prefer that term) as well.
--
And now...
Some retcon about religion in Europe:
At the council of Ghent (1551-56) the Occidental church was reunited with the rest of the Catholic church (doctrines were somewhat changed), so different religious opinions were restricted to the "outlaw states" of Bohemia and Münster, which were conquered anyway in 1587 and 1679 respectively. The princes had gained quite some power - church lands were confiscated in all countries, and in many ones (France, E-C-P, Hungary, several German states) the princes now even had the power to decide about positions in the church, as long as they didn't touch the Papal doctrine. However, when Francois IV misused the pope in Avignon too openly as his tool and E-C-P fell apart, many European states took complete control over the church, effectively splintering it into many national churches (as in Sweden, England, Spain and the Netherlands, where the power over church didn't even go to the king, but the parliament). During this time, many countries introduced special national holidays for the first time (St George's Day in England, f.e.). When France lost the anti-French War, they couldn't bring the national churches back into the fold either. In 1698, it was finally agreed that a new council would be held on neutral ground - in Cork in Ireland, the only Catholic European country that had stayed out of the anti-French War. (In 1700, the council still didn't finish its work.)
--
History of science in the 17th century:
General state of the art:
Western Europe: The first modern canal is built between Spree and Oder rivers in Brandenburg-Silesia. Islamic knowledge (mostly physics, esp. optics) spreads through all countries. Better clocks, first adding and multiplicating machines built. Alchimists in Italy discover first new element, phosphor.
Russian lands: Much of Chinese knowledge introduced and later even improved (statistics, galvanization). Materials categorized into conductors and non-conductors.
Islamic World: The introduction of the printing press leads to faster progress and more widespread knowledge. An encyclopedia is printed and slowly distributed. In Persia, bacteria are studied under the microscope for the first time. Aberration of light discovered. Astronomians also discover Halley's comet and a new planet, Uranus.
India: Kerala school stays undisturbed by Islamic conquests, makes even more mathematical discoveries at the level of OTL 1900.
China: They learn about the Europeans, but aren't really interested in what they have to offer. Science stagnates.
1604: Ophiuchus Supernova observed.
Read [post=963447]about the medicinal achievements of the University of Zanzibar[/post]!
--
Summary of the 17th century:
Atlantis: French Louisiana mostly divided between Germans, Italians and English. Mexica subjugated by Spaniards. Braseal and Argentine colonized by England. RUssians take Alyeska and the West Coast down to San Francisco Bay.
Europe: Triple monarchy of England-Castille-Portugal falls apart. Englands suffers a Civil War that brings Stafford dynasty to power. During this power vacuum, France greatly expands its influence over most of Europe under absolutist Francois IV. In the great anti-French War their empire breaks together, and Scotland and Portugal lose independence. Hungary practices religious tolerance.
Russian lands: Siberia becomes the independent republic of Novorossiya, as good relations with China. Kipchak lands north of the Black Sea conquered by Russians, formed into the new "Dvoryan republics". Science and humanities blossom in Novorossiya.
Muslim world: Seljuks still lose against Europeans, but achieve some victories in the second half of the century. Persia conquers Oman, Delhi.
East Asia: Independent nations between China and Russians conquered by the latter. Hong China loses power and influence, at the expense of the "rim people" (Japanese, Koreans, SE Asians). Western Europeans enter the scene.
Rest of the world: Songhay empire in Africa becomes stronger. French visit and ally with Ethiopia. Many Portuguese go to the "ship settlements" in the sea of Guinea. Swedes reconquer Australafrica.
--
Edit: Map of the world - before and after the Anti-French War. (Note I didn't bother to draw all the borders in Europe. For that, we have the detailed map.)
Colors:
Red - Britain
Pink - France
Yellow - Spain
Brown - Denmark-Braunschweig
Black - Sweden
Blue - Italy
Orange - Inca (not Dutch)
Purple - Novorossiya
Greens - Islamic states (Seljuks, Persia, Choresm, Melaka)
Note in W Africa: The upper country is Songhay, below it is the Portuguese-influenced Greater Guinea.
India isn't a French colony, but independent Vijayanagar and some smaller states.
Yes, the Nahuatl language in Mexico will survive, or is at least stronger than OTL. No, they don't sacrifice people anymore - they were catholized (by France) since the Great Occidental War in the 16th century.
Kumania is the southern Ukraine between Dnepr and southern Bug. Dvoryans... I didn't find a better word yet, I had believed for unknown reasons that this meant "warrior", and they are the Cossacks of TTL. So that's a Dvoryan republic - a Cossack state. BTW, Nobles republics aren't that uncommon - Poland-Lithuania was very much like that, and ITTL Aragon and Norway became nobles' republics (or elective monarchies, if you prefer that term) as well.
--
And now...
Some retcon about religion in Europe:
At the council of Ghent (1551-56) the Occidental church was reunited with the rest of the Catholic church (doctrines were somewhat changed), so different religious opinions were restricted to the "outlaw states" of Bohemia and Münster, which were conquered anyway in 1587 and 1679 respectively. The princes had gained quite some power - church lands were confiscated in all countries, and in many ones (France, E-C-P, Hungary, several German states) the princes now even had the power to decide about positions in the church, as long as they didn't touch the Papal doctrine. However, when Francois IV misused the pope in Avignon too openly as his tool and E-C-P fell apart, many European states took complete control over the church, effectively splintering it into many national churches (as in Sweden, England, Spain and the Netherlands, where the power over church didn't even go to the king, but the parliament). During this time, many countries introduced special national holidays for the first time (St George's Day in England, f.e.). When France lost the anti-French War, they couldn't bring the national churches back into the fold either. In 1698, it was finally agreed that a new council would be held on neutral ground - in Cork in Ireland, the only Catholic European country that had stayed out of the anti-French War. (In 1700, the council still didn't finish its work.)
--
History of science in the 17th century:
General state of the art:
Western Europe: The first modern canal is built between Spree and Oder rivers in Brandenburg-Silesia. Islamic knowledge (mostly physics, esp. optics) spreads through all countries. Better clocks, first adding and multiplicating machines built. Alchimists in Italy discover first new element, phosphor.
Russian lands: Much of Chinese knowledge introduced and later even improved (statistics, galvanization). Materials categorized into conductors and non-conductors.
Islamic World: The introduction of the printing press leads to faster progress and more widespread knowledge. An encyclopedia is printed and slowly distributed. In Persia, bacteria are studied under the microscope for the first time. Aberration of light discovered. Astronomians also discover Halley's comet and a new planet, Uranus.
India: Kerala school stays undisturbed by Islamic conquests, makes even more mathematical discoveries at the level of OTL 1900.
China: They learn about the Europeans, but aren't really interested in what they have to offer. Science stagnates.
1604: Ophiuchus Supernova observed.
Read [post=963447]about the medicinal achievements of the University of Zanzibar[/post]!
--
Summary of the 17th century:
Atlantis: French Louisiana mostly divided between Germans, Italians and English. Mexica subjugated by Spaniards. Braseal and Argentine colonized by England. RUssians take Alyeska and the West Coast down to San Francisco Bay.
Europe: Triple monarchy of England-Castille-Portugal falls apart. Englands suffers a Civil War that brings Stafford dynasty to power. During this power vacuum, France greatly expands its influence over most of Europe under absolutist Francois IV. In the great anti-French War their empire breaks together, and Scotland and Portugal lose independence. Hungary practices religious tolerance.
Russian lands: Siberia becomes the independent republic of Novorossiya, as good relations with China. Kipchak lands north of the Black Sea conquered by Russians, formed into the new "Dvoryan republics". Science and humanities blossom in Novorossiya.
Muslim world: Seljuks still lose against Europeans, but achieve some victories in the second half of the century. Persia conquers Oman, Delhi.
East Asia: Independent nations between China and Russians conquered by the latter. Hong China loses power and influence, at the expense of the "rim people" (Japanese, Koreans, SE Asians). Western Europeans enter the scene.
Rest of the world: Songhay empire in Africa becomes stronger. French visit and ally with Ethiopia. Many Portuguese go to the "ship settlements" in the sea of Guinea. Swedes reconquer Australafrica.
--
Edit: Map of the world - before and after the Anti-French War. (Note I didn't bother to draw all the borders in Europe. For that, we have the detailed map.)
Colors:
Red - Britain
Pink - France
Yellow - Spain
Brown - Denmark-Braunschweig
Black - Sweden
Blue - Italy
Orange - Inca (not Dutch
)Purple - Novorossiya
Greens - Islamic states (Seljuks, Persia, Choresm, Melaka)
Note in W Africa: The upper country is Songhay, below it is the Portuguese-influenced Greater Guinea.
India isn't a French colony, but independent Vijayanagar and some smaller states.
Last edited:
What is the religious and linguistic composition of North Africa at this point? I imagine Tunis and Algiers are little changed, though likely with much more Christian settlement than in OTL. Morocco, though, has been in Spanish hands for a long time now. Based on their record in Iberia, I could see a pretty heavily Christianized population being left.
On a related note, the Spanish, Portuguese, and English speaking former owners of Tunis ought to mean a fascinating language, once Italian influences are done with it. Similarly, I'm curious what is spoken in Morocco: Spanish, or a dialect of Iberian Romance than never existed in OTL? For that matter, how did extended Turkish rule affect Neapolitan?
On a related note, the Spanish, Portuguese, and English speaking former owners of Tunis ought to mean a fascinating language, once Italian influences are done with it. Similarly, I'm curious what is spoken in Morocco: Spanish, or a dialect of Iberian Romance than never existed in OTL? For that matter, how did extended Turkish rule affect Neapolitan?
13. The World 1700-25
Max Sinister
Banned
@Admiral Matt: Algiers has quite some French meanwhile, and some other Europeans (10-15% maybe). Tunis may even have a bit more, since many Italians fled from Seljuk-help South Italy.
There settled relatively few English and Portuguese in North Africa, because of the internal division of colonies in E-C-P: Guinea for the Portuguese, North Atlantis and Jamaica for English, rest for the Castillians.
Morocco is heavily Europeanized meanwhile... 40% at least, they have unchallenged control over the cities and the good land. In the many mountains, the natives still have strongholds. They constantly risk to be enslaved by the Spaniards.
@Tocomocho: The Shetlands are a mistake. I'll correct it.
Ceuta was taken by Florence in 1628 by bribing the commander. Before, it had been Portuguese since 1381.
Retcon:
1633-50: Welsh uprisings during War of the Fords. Some are expelled to Atlantis, settle around Boston.
1655: Wales becomes an integral part of England. Welsh language is suppressed. (This happens about one century later than OTL, since the English kings were preoccupied with the rest of their empire. Now, under the Staffords, they care more about the islands.)
1662: English (re)found the city of Fort Humphrey at the site of OTL Buenos Aires.
1688, October: Battle of Mantua. Armies of Savoy and Venice defeated, driven back.
1693: Vladimir-Suzdal has to cede the northern lands between Ural and Kama to Novorossiya, as repayment of their war debts, being unable to pay them back.
And here's, The World 1700-25:
Atlantis:
Since ~1700: Poor Italians (mostly from the South), often with differing religious ideas, settle west of the Appalachians, in the Tenesi (yes, OTL Tennessee) area.
Many French settlers leave upper Mississippi area, go to Louisiana.
1700: Denmark-Braunschweig founds the ninth land, at the shores of Lake Erie.
1706: King Piero / Pedro of Italy has a third son, whom he appoints "prince of Atlantis" (the other two being prince of Africa [OK, Tunis + Tripolis] and prince of the Islands [Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta] respectively).
1706-14: War against the Five Nations (actually seven nations meanwhile, the historical five ones and the Monacan and Connestoga in addition, being displaced earlier by European settlers). Historians agree that this war helped the mixed German-Danish-English-Dutch-Polish population very much to become a community. The war proves to be very hard, since the French left the Five Nations equipped with guns and boats.
1707-10: Uprising of Aymara defeated by Inca, Aymara displaced to the Southern tip of Atlantis.
1709: Last free Maya cities conquered by Spaniards.
1718/19: Inca lose border war against Spain, have to pay a big tribute in silver (which is more important for the Spaniards than gaining land).
1723: Inca make first trade agreement with Russians.
Muslim World:
Early 18th century: Songhay introduces the Printing Press, getting help from Seljuk Egypt.
1701-04: After a plague hits Southern Russia, the Seljuks use the opportunity to strike against the Dvoryan / Dosor republics. Although Kiev-Chernigov supports them, the Seljuks (who have the better medical science) defeat them several times, re-establishing their rule in many cities at the Black Sea.
1708-15: Italian-Russian-Seljuk War. Italy finally takes Seljuk Italy back. In the following years, they start resettling the wasted and depopulated (by war, Seljuk slave-catchers and emigration to Atlantis and Tunis) parts of Southern Italy. The city of Tripolis also becomes Italian. South Russia finally kicks the Seljuks out from OTL Ukraine, this time including Crimea.
1717-23: France uses the opportunity, allies with Persia and strikes against the Seljuks. The French again occupy the Sinai and Aden, while Persia takes the prestigious Holy Cities of Islam. This time, Jerusalem is left alone.
1720s: Rebellion of the Georgians and Armenians against Seljuk rule begins.
Rest of the world:
Early 18th century: Britain and Sweden try to lure the Congo kingdoms on their side, away from France and Portuguese-influenced Guinea.
1704: English ships go west from Cape Hoorn, (re-)discover Australia and New Zealand, which are called Antipodia and New Albion respectively. England takes claim of these lands, but for quite some while they stay in the shadow of the English colonies in North and South Atlantis.
1710s: Uprisings in Portugal suppressed. Many Portuguese flee to Guinea.
1716-18: Britain makes further discoveries in the Pacific Ocean, claims many islands. As a surprise comes the rediscovery of the island Tahiti, finding a Christian, mostly English-descended population who believe that the Plantagenet dynasty still reigns in England-Castille-Portugal.
1725: France and Persia make an agreement about Ethiopia. Both nations are allowed to trade with the land, it's not forced to switch religion in any way, but has to pay tribute to both of them.
Russian lands:
Early 18th century: At the university of Yenisseisk, the Russians make several progresses concerning electricity (knowing galvanization and the voltaic pile from China), even a primitive telegraph (not ready for use, though).
1702: Threatened by the Seljuks, the Dvoryan republics make a closer alliance with Kiev-Chernigov. The Czar founds a Duma, representing old and new Russian lands.
1707: Paper-based currency introduced in Novorossiya for the first time.
1708-17: Anti-Czarist uprisings in the area of Novgorod.
1715: Novorossiya enters the fights between Novgorodians and the Czar. After defeating the Czarist troops in the battle at the Tobol, the whole North of Vladimir-Suzdal is ceded to Novorossiya. Old Novgorod becomes a honorable Old City of Novorossiya.
1720s: Novorossiya has to fight down an uprising of the Jurchen / Nuzhen, finally successful.
Western Europe:
1703: Council of Cork ends again with a compromise. The Catholic church stays formally united, but the pope has become a mere figurehead. The kings and princes are even allowed to change the doctrine in their lands, "as long as those changes are justified by the special character of their countries" and don't contradict the bible too much.
1709: King Kristian III of Denmark killed by court members after trying to force the church to canonize him while alive. Other kings, however, like the kernel of the idea and declare their birthday, coronation day and so on national holidays in the next decades.
1715: Sweden enters the war against Vladimir-Suzdal, to get the once lost parts of Finland and Estonia back. Poland also enters the war, for the former princedoms Polozk and Turov-Pinsk.
1718-23: Ireland conquered by England.
Central Europe:
~1700: The Bronze Age of the Netherlands. After the won war against France, the country can rebuild its former strength - although other powers, like England, France, Italy and Spain are now active in trade too. Fortunately, at least Sweden with its colony Australia (South Africa) and the Indian trade is Dutch-friendly.
1701: Margrave and elector Heinrich V takes power in Brandenburg-Silesia, ending the collegial government of Sweden, Prussia and Franconia-Pomerania over his country.
1712: Charles / Károly VI becomes king of Hungary. During his long reign, he reforms Hungary - taking many ideas and technologies from Russia (thus indirectly, China).
1722: After the death of king (and Roman emperor) Eduard IV, the Netherlands are united in personal union with Sweden-Norway-Mecklenburg. France objects the unification.
1724: France finds an ally in Luxembourg; Dutch Succession War (also called Dutch Unification War) begins.
East Asia:
1702: Korea makes a strategical alliance with the Russians against Nippon.
1703, silvester: Earthquake of Edo (Tokyo). More than 100,000 victims.
1707: Champa (S Vietnam) stops paying tribute to Hong, with impunity. The example is soon followed.
30,000 Nipponese killed by Tokaido-Nankaido tsunami.
1714-25: Indian War. Persia (backed by France) fights Vijayanagar (backed by Britain, Sweden, Netherlands).
1721: Sea battle of Jeju island. Korean-Russian fleet defeats Nipponese. Nipponese piracy restricted.
Stories:
[post=751457]AH discussion in ATL[/post]
[post=757787]About a famous picture[/post]
[post=871442]Uncle Popov and the reorganisation of the Novorussian Army[/post]
There settled relatively few English and Portuguese in North Africa, because of the internal division of colonies in E-C-P: Guinea for the Portuguese, North Atlantis and Jamaica for English, rest for the Castillians.
Morocco is heavily Europeanized meanwhile... 40% at least, they have unchallenged control over the cities and the good land. In the many mountains, the natives still have strongholds. They constantly risk to be enslaved by the Spaniards.
@Tocomocho: The Shetlands are a mistake. I'll correct it.
Ceuta was taken by Florence in 1628 by bribing the commander. Before, it had been Portuguese since 1381.
Retcon:
1633-50: Welsh uprisings during War of the Fords. Some are expelled to Atlantis, settle around Boston.
1655: Wales becomes an integral part of England. Welsh language is suppressed. (This happens about one century later than OTL, since the English kings were preoccupied with the rest of their empire. Now, under the Staffords, they care more about the islands.)
1662: English (re)found the city of Fort Humphrey at the site of OTL Buenos Aires.
1688, October: Battle of Mantua. Armies of Savoy and Venice defeated, driven back.
1693: Vladimir-Suzdal has to cede the northern lands between Ural and Kama to Novorossiya, as repayment of their war debts, being unable to pay them back.
And here's, The World 1700-25:
Atlantis:
Since ~1700: Poor Italians (mostly from the South), often with differing religious ideas, settle west of the Appalachians, in the Tenesi (yes, OTL Tennessee) area.
Many French settlers leave upper Mississippi area, go to Louisiana.
1700: Denmark-Braunschweig founds the ninth land, at the shores of Lake Erie.
1706: King Piero / Pedro of Italy has a third son, whom he appoints "prince of Atlantis" (the other two being prince of Africa [OK, Tunis + Tripolis] and prince of the Islands [Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, Malta] respectively).
1706-14: War against the Five Nations (actually seven nations meanwhile, the historical five ones and the Monacan and Connestoga in addition, being displaced earlier by European settlers). Historians agree that this war helped the mixed German-Danish-English-Dutch-Polish population very much to become a community. The war proves to be very hard, since the French left the Five Nations equipped with guns and boats.
1707-10: Uprising of Aymara defeated by Inca, Aymara displaced to the Southern tip of Atlantis.
1709: Last free Maya cities conquered by Spaniards.
1718/19: Inca lose border war against Spain, have to pay a big tribute in silver (which is more important for the Spaniards than gaining land).
1723: Inca make first trade agreement with Russians.
Muslim World:
Early 18th century: Songhay introduces the Printing Press, getting help from Seljuk Egypt.
1701-04: After a plague hits Southern Russia, the Seljuks use the opportunity to strike against the Dvoryan / Dosor republics. Although Kiev-Chernigov supports them, the Seljuks (who have the better medical science) defeat them several times, re-establishing their rule in many cities at the Black Sea.
1708-15: Italian-Russian-Seljuk War. Italy finally takes Seljuk Italy back. In the following years, they start resettling the wasted and depopulated (by war, Seljuk slave-catchers and emigration to Atlantis and Tunis) parts of Southern Italy. The city of Tripolis also becomes Italian. South Russia finally kicks the Seljuks out from OTL Ukraine, this time including Crimea.
1717-23: France uses the opportunity, allies with Persia and strikes against the Seljuks. The French again occupy the Sinai and Aden, while Persia takes the prestigious Holy Cities of Islam. This time, Jerusalem is left alone.
1720s: Rebellion of the Georgians and Armenians against Seljuk rule begins.
Rest of the world:
Early 18th century: Britain and Sweden try to lure the Congo kingdoms on their side, away from France and Portuguese-influenced Guinea.
1704: English ships go west from Cape Hoorn, (re-)discover Australia and New Zealand, which are called Antipodia and New Albion respectively. England takes claim of these lands, but for quite some while they stay in the shadow of the English colonies in North and South Atlantis.
1710s: Uprisings in Portugal suppressed. Many Portuguese flee to Guinea.
1716-18: Britain makes further discoveries in the Pacific Ocean, claims many islands. As a surprise comes the rediscovery of the island Tahiti, finding a Christian, mostly English-descended population who believe that the Plantagenet dynasty still reigns in England-Castille-Portugal.
1725: France and Persia make an agreement about Ethiopia. Both nations are allowed to trade with the land, it's not forced to switch religion in any way, but has to pay tribute to both of them.
Russian lands:
Early 18th century: At the university of Yenisseisk, the Russians make several progresses concerning electricity (knowing galvanization and the voltaic pile from China), even a primitive telegraph (not ready for use, though).
1702: Threatened by the Seljuks, the Dvoryan republics make a closer alliance with Kiev-Chernigov. The Czar founds a Duma, representing old and new Russian lands.
1707: Paper-based currency introduced in Novorossiya for the first time.
1708-17: Anti-Czarist uprisings in the area of Novgorod.
1715: Novorossiya enters the fights between Novgorodians and the Czar. After defeating the Czarist troops in the battle at the Tobol, the whole North of Vladimir-Suzdal is ceded to Novorossiya. Old Novgorod becomes a honorable Old City of Novorossiya.
1720s: Novorossiya has to fight down an uprising of the Jurchen / Nuzhen, finally successful.
Western Europe:
1703: Council of Cork ends again with a compromise. The Catholic church stays formally united, but the pope has become a mere figurehead. The kings and princes are even allowed to change the doctrine in their lands, "as long as those changes are justified by the special character of their countries" and don't contradict the bible too much.
1709: King Kristian III of Denmark killed by court members after trying to force the church to canonize him while alive. Other kings, however, like the kernel of the idea and declare their birthday, coronation day and so on national holidays in the next decades.
1715: Sweden enters the war against Vladimir-Suzdal, to get the once lost parts of Finland and Estonia back. Poland also enters the war, for the former princedoms Polozk and Turov-Pinsk.
1718-23: Ireland conquered by England.
Central Europe:
~1700: The Bronze Age of the Netherlands. After the won war against France, the country can rebuild its former strength - although other powers, like England, France, Italy and Spain are now active in trade too. Fortunately, at least Sweden with its colony Australia (South Africa) and the Indian trade is Dutch-friendly.
1701: Margrave and elector Heinrich V takes power in Brandenburg-Silesia, ending the collegial government of Sweden, Prussia and Franconia-Pomerania over his country.
1712: Charles / Károly VI becomes king of Hungary. During his long reign, he reforms Hungary - taking many ideas and technologies from Russia (thus indirectly, China).
1722: After the death of king (and Roman emperor) Eduard IV, the Netherlands are united in personal union with Sweden-Norway-Mecklenburg. France objects the unification.
1724: France finds an ally in Luxembourg; Dutch Succession War (also called Dutch Unification War) begins.
East Asia:
1702: Korea makes a strategical alliance with the Russians against Nippon.
1703, silvester: Earthquake of Edo (Tokyo). More than 100,000 victims.
1707: Champa (S Vietnam) stops paying tribute to Hong, with impunity. The example is soon followed.
30,000 Nipponese killed by Tokaido-Nankaido tsunami.
1714-25: Indian War. Persia (backed by France) fights Vijayanagar (backed by Britain, Sweden, Netherlands).
1721: Sea battle of Jeju island. Korean-Russian fleet defeats Nipponese. Nipponese piracy restricted.
Stories:
[post=751457]AH discussion in ATL[/post]
[post=757787]About a famous picture[/post]
[post=871442]Uncle Popov and the reorganisation of the Novorussian Army[/post]
Last edited:
Did Sweden and Poland make good their claims to Vladimir's territory?
What's that make the population breakdown of Russia? (And when are you going to tell us how many people are in those Dvornyan Republics?)
And may I say that I am just a wee bit skeptical of Novorossiya's ability to operate as a conventional state across these distances at that level of technology. Where did they recruit the army they used to attack Vladimir? Did they walk all the way from Manchuria? How do you maintain a set of roads that can support an army and its train in Siberia? Is this army really supposed to have attacked in the direction of Novgorod? From the Kama? For heaven's sake, most of that area wasn't developed by the Soviets until the 1930s!
I think we could really use a map of the New World at this point. Especially North America - I haven't a clue what it looks like any more.
One thing that might make a very serious issue in this timeline is religious toleration. Without a Reformation, religion in the West is almost entirely set on the basis of the state. Divergent religion is contained within the borders of individual countries: the Gottfreistats, the Occidental Church, the Bohemians, there really aren't many circumstances where countries have had to have a policy for religious minorities - their weren't any.
In the south there is overlap with Islam, in the east with Orthodoxy, and Jews here and there, but how will Christendom deal with the rise of minority faiths, by invention, or by immigration? This will likely be more of an issue in Atlantis, of course, since it already has a spurt of random sects and settlers. Keep in mind, though, religious toleration doesn't just appear out of nowhere. Most times in history it has been put in place only after religious intolerance has already caused a tremendous amount of damage.
What's that make the population breakdown of Russia? (And when are you going to tell us how many people are in those Dvornyan Republics?)
And may I say that I am just a wee bit skeptical of Novorossiya's ability to operate as a conventional state across these distances at that level of technology. Where did they recruit the army they used to attack Vladimir? Did they walk all the way from Manchuria? How do you maintain a set of roads that can support an army and its train in Siberia? Is this army really supposed to have attacked in the direction of Novgorod? From the Kama? For heaven's sake, most of that area wasn't developed by the Soviets until the 1930s!
I think we could really use a map of the New World at this point. Especially North America - I haven't a clue what it looks like any more.
One thing that might make a very serious issue in this timeline is religious toleration. Without a Reformation, religion in the West is almost entirely set on the basis of the state. Divergent religion is contained within the borders of individual countries: the Gottfreistats, the Occidental Church, the Bohemians, there really aren't many circumstances where countries have had to have a policy for religious minorities - their weren't any.
In the south there is overlap with Islam, in the east with Orthodoxy, and Jews here and there, but how will Christendom deal with the rise of minority faiths, by invention, or by immigration? This will likely be more of an issue in Atlantis, of course, since it already has a spurt of random sects and settlers. Keep in mind, though, religious toleration doesn't just appear out of nowhere. Most times in history it has been put in place only after religious intolerance has already caused a tremendous amount of damage.
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Max Sinister
Banned
@Tocomocho: I know that persecution of the Jews started in Spain after Peter the Cruel, whom his adversary accused being really of Jewish descendence, but I fear with Spain constantly fighting "unbelievers" their special brand of Christianity could develop as well. If they can't take Peter as an excuse, they'll find something else.
The fact that Castille is united for a long time with England and Portugal doesn't help much. England expelled the Jews under Edward I, and Portugal had a similar attitude as Castille. So, this part of the world isn't a good place for Jews. At the best, they can stay if they get christened.
I want to write more about the Jews in Chaos TL, but I'll do it later, probably. Maybe if I reach 1800, or at the end. For the moment, we can say that most Jews in Europe are in Poland, the Netherlands, Italy, Hungary and some German states.
The Spanish Moors had to suffer too... most of them will be christianized by force, expelled to other Muslim lands or enslaved and often brought to Atlantis, as depicted in one of my stories.
@Admiral Matt: Yes, Sweden and Poland made their claims, since they won the war together with Novorossiya.
Population - hard to tell. BTW, if you look at my numbers, the population of the Dvoryan republics is included in Kiev-Chernigov (even if not formally, or de facto, a part of it).
About the army: There are many ways to organize an army. Given the size of Novorossiya, it's more probable that they have a standing army. Maybe even with a service time of 25 years too. Parts of that army are stationed along every border, so in case of a war they're there where you need them.
So most of Russia is still wilderness? I expect that they have learned how to deal with it, like the trappers did in the early America. They'll fight war in a different style.
I'll make a world map soon.
BTW, I've written some new stories. Don't for get to check them out!
The fact that Castille is united for a long time with England and Portugal doesn't help much. England expelled the Jews under Edward I, and Portugal had a similar attitude as Castille. So, this part of the world isn't a good place for Jews. At the best, they can stay if they get christened.
I want to write more about the Jews in Chaos TL, but I'll do it later, probably. Maybe if I reach 1800, or at the end. For the moment, we can say that most Jews in Europe are in Poland, the Netherlands, Italy, Hungary and some German states.
The Spanish Moors had to suffer too... most of them will be christianized by force, expelled to other Muslim lands or enslaved and often brought to Atlantis, as depicted in one of my stories.
@Admiral Matt: Yes, Sweden and Poland made their claims, since they won the war together with Novorossiya.
Population - hard to tell. BTW, if you look at my numbers, the population of the Dvoryan republics is included in Kiev-Chernigov (even if not formally, or de facto, a part of it).
About the army: There are many ways to organize an army. Given the size of Novorossiya, it's more probable that they have a standing army. Maybe even with a service time of 25 years too. Parts of that army are stationed along every border, so in case of a war they're there where you need them.
So most of Russia is still wilderness? I expect that they have learned how to deal with it, like the trappers did in the early America. They'll fight war in a different style.
I'll make a world map soon.
BTW, I've written some new stories. Don't for get to check them out!
14. World 1725-50
Max Sinister
Banned
World 1725-50
1725-75: Time of crisis in China: Their former tributaries broke away, the country stagnates - as is criticized, despite of the lack of real enemies.
1725: Portuguese uprising, which takes Spain until 1728 to defeat it completely.
1725-32: Egypt rises against Seljuk rule. Finally, sultan Kilij Arslan VI gives in and allows Egypt to transform into an allied, tribute-paying but otherwise independent sultanate.
1726: Germans and Italians agree to make the Ohio river border between their possessions in Atlantis.
Start of Olof Tiselius' first serve as First Minister of Sweden. After the Netherlands (which already have a constitutional government), during his time Sweden-Norway-Mecklenburg also sees a shift of power: Away from the king, to Riksdag (parliament) and First Minister.
1726-29: Border war between Novorossiya and muslim Choresm.
1727-30: Irish and Scottish uprisings defeated by Britain.
1728: Spain claims a good part of the Rocky Mountains (up to OTL Utah) for them, to stop the Russians from expanding even further.
France takes Sri Lanka.
1729: Dutch War of Succession (first war in Europe since the end of the Great War, or anti-French War) resolved. France takes Hainaut and parts of Flanders (again...), Luxembourg gets Namur.
1730-37: Uprisings in Mexico under a leader who claims to be the rightful heir of the old native rulers and calls himself Cuáutemoc II.
1731: The first commercial telegraph line is made between Yenisseisk and nearby (20 verst, about as many km) Pavlovskoye. Despite the difficult climate of Novorossiya, the new invention spreads through the country and transforms it.
France founds the Indochinese League with Bengal, Pegu, Thailand, Khmer, Champa and Melaka.
1732-34: Despite of the king's policy of religious tolerance, there's an uprising in Hungarian-occupied Serbia and Bosnia. News of these accidents reach Russia, whose sympathies are at the rebels' side.
1734-41: Spice Islands War. Britain fights Majapahit and some of the small kingdoms in Indonesia. Finally they win, but this makes them unable to interfere in the continental affairs.
~1735-50: Many new newspapers founded in Novorossiya.
1735: Ludwig XVIII, last Wittelsbach duke of the Rhine Palatinate, dies without heir. It's not completely clear whether France or Bavaria'll get it. New emperor Heinrich IX of Brandenburg lets the French unmisunderstandably know that he won't tolerate them taking it.
1736-42: Palatinate War of Succession. Although the German and Swedish-Dutch armies can't defeat the French armies, when Spain and Britain threaten France, peace is made. The Palatinate goes neither to France nor Bavaria, but to a grandson of the Bourbon king of Hungary. In case he and his brother will die without heir, the Palatinate will fall to Bavaria.
1738: Swedes take Sri Lanka, after defeating a stronger French fleet surprisingly.
1739: Uprising of the Albanians against Seljuk rule begins.
Johann Friedrich, grandson of Fredrick of Atlantis, comes to power in Franconia-Pomerania. Under his reign, lots of money is wasted for building palaces and cathedrals. He even tries to sell Farther Pomerania to Sweden or Prussia, which only doesn't happen because noone wants to buy it.
1740: Spain starts to build a stronger fleet in the Pacific, planning to take a part in East Asia too.
1740-44: Open war between the alliance of Novorossiya and Korea against Nippon. Novorossiya occupies the small islands in the Nipponese Sea, Korea takes Kyushu.
1741-46: Second Italian-Russian Seljuk War. The Seljuks lose again. Albania becomes an Italian protectorate, Georgia (excluding Armenia) becomes associated with South Russia, and the Cyrenaica becomes Italian too.
After this defeat, the conservative military finally gives up the resistance against its modernization.
1743: French king Philippe VI dies without heir, so his unpopular uncle Charles X becomes king.
1746-50: French-Atlantean war (also called War of the Great Lakes). Denmark-Braunschweig and Britain fight the native Atlanteans and the French immigrants in Quebec (OTL Ontario)
1746-48: Charles X starts the completely unnecessary war against Prussia, for which France has to make a costly expedition to the Baltic and strain its relation to Denmark-Braunschweig, only because the king feels has he to defend the pope against what he perceives as a Prussian heresy. The war gives the rationalist (comparable to OTL enlightenment) movement a boost.
1747: Uprisings against the Czar of Vladimir-Suzdal start after he tries to increase his power.
1748: Uprisings in Austria (religiously motivated) against the government of the unpopular dukes Eberhard XI and XII.
1749: Charles X dies too without heir. France calls the General Estates (300 men for every estate) to decide who'll become next king, since the successor situation is a bit unclear.
Madagascar War between Sweden and Persia. Persia takes the island.
~1750: Settlements of the Germans and Italians have reached the Mississippi river.
Stories:
[post=755184]City history of Wildenhartburg[/post]
[post=824622]The rise of Fort Knox[/post]
[post=828332]The New Seljuks[/post]
1725-75: Time of crisis in China: Their former tributaries broke away, the country stagnates - as is criticized, despite of the lack of real enemies.
1725: Portuguese uprising, which takes Spain until 1728 to defeat it completely.
1725-32: Egypt rises against Seljuk rule. Finally, sultan Kilij Arslan VI gives in and allows Egypt to transform into an allied, tribute-paying but otherwise independent sultanate.
1726: Germans and Italians agree to make the Ohio river border between their possessions in Atlantis.
Start of Olof Tiselius' first serve as First Minister of Sweden. After the Netherlands (which already have a constitutional government), during his time Sweden-Norway-Mecklenburg also sees a shift of power: Away from the king, to Riksdag (parliament) and First Minister.
1726-29: Border war between Novorossiya and muslim Choresm.
1727-30: Irish and Scottish uprisings defeated by Britain.
1728: Spain claims a good part of the Rocky Mountains (up to OTL Utah) for them, to stop the Russians from expanding even further.
France takes Sri Lanka.
1729: Dutch War of Succession (first war in Europe since the end of the Great War, or anti-French War) resolved. France takes Hainaut and parts of Flanders (again...), Luxembourg gets Namur.
1730-37: Uprisings in Mexico under a leader who claims to be the rightful heir of the old native rulers and calls himself Cuáutemoc II.
1731: The first commercial telegraph line is made between Yenisseisk and nearby (20 verst, about as many km) Pavlovskoye. Despite the difficult climate of Novorossiya, the new invention spreads through the country and transforms it.
France founds the Indochinese League with Bengal, Pegu, Thailand, Khmer, Champa and Melaka.
1732-34: Despite of the king's policy of religious tolerance, there's an uprising in Hungarian-occupied Serbia and Bosnia. News of these accidents reach Russia, whose sympathies are at the rebels' side.
1734-41: Spice Islands War. Britain fights Majapahit and some of the small kingdoms in Indonesia. Finally they win, but this makes them unable to interfere in the continental affairs.
~1735-50: Many new newspapers founded in Novorossiya.
1735: Ludwig XVIII, last Wittelsbach duke of the Rhine Palatinate, dies without heir. It's not completely clear whether France or Bavaria'll get it. New emperor Heinrich IX of Brandenburg lets the French unmisunderstandably know that he won't tolerate them taking it.
1736-42: Palatinate War of Succession. Although the German and Swedish-Dutch armies can't defeat the French armies, when Spain and Britain threaten France, peace is made. The Palatinate goes neither to France nor Bavaria, but to a grandson of the Bourbon king of Hungary. In case he and his brother will die without heir, the Palatinate will fall to Bavaria.
1738: Swedes take Sri Lanka, after defeating a stronger French fleet surprisingly.
1739: Uprising of the Albanians against Seljuk rule begins.
Johann Friedrich, grandson of Fredrick of Atlantis, comes to power in Franconia-Pomerania. Under his reign, lots of money is wasted for building palaces and cathedrals. He even tries to sell Farther Pomerania to Sweden or Prussia, which only doesn't happen because noone wants to buy it.
1740: Spain starts to build a stronger fleet in the Pacific, planning to take a part in East Asia too.
1740-44: Open war between the alliance of Novorossiya and Korea against Nippon. Novorossiya occupies the small islands in the Nipponese Sea, Korea takes Kyushu.
1741-46: Second Italian-Russian Seljuk War. The Seljuks lose again. Albania becomes an Italian protectorate, Georgia (excluding Armenia) becomes associated with South Russia, and the Cyrenaica becomes Italian too.
After this defeat, the conservative military finally gives up the resistance against its modernization.
1743: French king Philippe VI dies without heir, so his unpopular uncle Charles X becomes king.
1746-50: French-Atlantean war (also called War of the Great Lakes). Denmark-Braunschweig and Britain fight the native Atlanteans and the French immigrants in Quebec (OTL Ontario)
1746-48: Charles X starts the completely unnecessary war against Prussia, for which France has to make a costly expedition to the Baltic and strain its relation to Denmark-Braunschweig, only because the king feels has he to defend the pope against what he perceives as a Prussian heresy. The war gives the rationalist (comparable to OTL enlightenment) movement a boost.
1747: Uprisings against the Czar of Vladimir-Suzdal start after he tries to increase his power.
1748: Uprisings in Austria (religiously motivated) against the government of the unpopular dukes Eberhard XI and XII.
1749: Charles X dies too without heir. France calls the General Estates (300 men for every estate) to decide who'll become next king, since the successor situation is a bit unclear.
Madagascar War between Sweden and Persia. Persia takes the island.
~1750: Settlements of the Germans and Italians have reached the Mississippi river.
Stories:
[post=755184]City history of Wildenhartburg[/post]
[post=824622]The rise of Fort Knox[/post]
[post=828332]The New Seljuks[/post]
Last edited:
15. The World 1750-75
Max Sinister
Banned
Thanks Stalker!
First a little retcon:
1607: The Sixtine calendar (technically equivalent to OTL Gregorian Calendar) is introduced in Western Europe. Only the Gottesfreistaat Münster refuses to introduce it, which will happen later in 1679.
1690, April: Sea battle of Ibiza. United Spanish-Italian fleet defeats French-Savoy fleet.
And now things become revolutionary interesting...
The World 1750-75:
Russian lands:
1750s: Steppe Wars begin. Novorussians fight the various steppe people (Kirghiz, Kara-Kitai, even what remains of the Kipchaks) between Russia and Choresm (OTL Kazakhstan).
1754: First telegraph line in another country but Novorossiya, connecting Kiev and Chernigov.
1765: Dynamo invented in Novorossiya.
1770-79: Russian Civil War. Novorossiya and Kiev-Chernigov defeat Vladimir-Suzdal, send the Czar to exile, divide Vladimir between them.
East Asia:
1756: Spain allies with Nippon against Novorossiya and Korea, starts converting the Nipponese and modernizing their army.
1761/62: Kyushu uprising against Korea, Nippon reunited.
1763: Reacting to their defeat, Korea gets closer to Novorossiya - building telegraph lines, importing new weapons, and even letting Orthodox missionaries into the country.
1766: Indochinese League falls apart, when Khmer conquer Champa.
1774: Pegu (S Burma) invades N Burma, where they meet Chinese troops and (more or less) surprisingly defeat them.
Muslim lands:
1752-57: Persia fights the Seljuks, South Russia joins them; Armenia liberated, Syria and Palestine go to Persia. The Seljuk empire now is reduced to Anatolia, Greece, Bulgaria and OTL Romania.
1758: "Young Seljuks" topple the sultan Süleyman VIII, make new sultan Kay Khusrau X introduce a constitution, which introduces a kind of a parliament (all adult educated male Muslims may elect representatives).
1768: Egypt uses the opportunity and takes French Sinai. France is cut off from Asia again.
1773: First telegraph in Persia.
Atlantis:
1751: Spain discovers Hawaii, claims the island chain, starts radical Christianization.
1752: Denmark-Braunschweig and Italy make a contract about their lands in Atlantis, which gives Italy OTL southern tip of Illinois.
1760: First Russian settlement in Atlantis (Novorossisk, on Vancouver island) gets representation in the Central Vyetje.
1769: King Francesco III occupies the valuable Caribbean colony Nouvelle France (OTL Haiti) for Italy. The other powers protest, since they can't interfere.
1771: As one of his first deeds, Gioacchino sends troops to Atlantis and attacks Caroline, south of Italia Nuova, which is conquered and added to Italia Nuova until 1773.
Central Europe:
1758: First telegraph line in a Catholic land (Hungary).
1761: The protector of Venice dies. Traditionally the new one has to be appointed by the French king, which can't happen due to France lacking a king. Italy uses the opportunity and annexes Venice, including Dalmatia, since France is distracted.
The Seljuks also strike, take the Venetian islands in the Agaean.
1762: First telegraph in Italy.
1764: First telegraph in Poland.
1765: Duke Franz of Bavaria dies. Franconia-Pomerania and Württemberg-Austria make claims, since the appointed successor doesn't descend in direct male line from the Wittelsbachs. He manages to defend his lands in the short Southern German War (1766/67), though.
1768: First telegraph in a German state (Bavaria).
1770: Joaquin / Gioacchino, last surviving male of the Alvarez dynasty (there are rumors that his cousin and predecessor was killed because of taking Nouvelle France), becomes king of Italy.
Charles VI of Hungary also dies, leaving the country in a critical situation to his comparably less competent son.
Northern and Western Europe:
1759: First telegraph in Sweden.
1762: In the French estates, the majority of the Third Estate advocates making France a republic for the first time.
1763: After a bad harvest, peasants revolt and march to Paris. The Third Estate also feels threatened, demands reforms (like allowing the peasants to hunt) mostly at the expense of the nobles. The estates are split, but many clerics and lower nobles are pragmatic enough to support the Third Estate, so the reforms are pushed through. The conservative opposition takes this as an affront, leaves the assembly. With this step, the remaining assembly becomes more and more radical.
Later that year: The first written constitution is introduced. It gives power for legislation to a parliament, which is elected by all adult male citizens above a certain level of income.
Even later that year: First elections. France is officially made a republic.
1764: Early in the year, the duke of Guise protests the reforms, raises troops and takes power in NE France. The assembly decides to fight him, makes a law, forcing all the nobles and clerics to swear an oath on the new constitution. Those who resist are disowned.
1764-67: French Civil War.
1765: Governors of Nouvelle France, Algeria, Caroline and Louisiana declare independence - until France has a king again. Lacking a navy (because the mostly noble captains don't want to fight for a republic and thus deserted), France can't take them back.
Despite of the War, France builds its first telegraph line.
1768: After the death of the more cool-headed kings Humphrey III and IV of Britain and Héctor II of Spain, who were self-assured enough not to be impressed by the king-less situation of France, diplomatic tensions to France rapidly worsen. The first French Republican War begins. Savoy, the Netherlands, even Hungary under hesitating Charles VI and many German states join the coalition; only Italy stays neutral.
1768, September: Battle of Verdun. German armies defeat French.
1769: France orders the "levee en masse", creating the republican armies.
The pope flees from Avignon, first down the Rhone river to Corse, but later moves his seat to Toledo, Spain, since Italy doesn't want to enter the war. In Spain, he outspeaks decidedly against republicanism, further encouraging the "monarchist crusade" feeling among the reigning classes in Europe. There are some hopes among conservatives that this may bring the national churches closer together and give the pope more power.
1769, April: British troops land in Aquitaine, to unite with the Spaniards.
1769, May: Battle of Aix-en-Provence - "the blackest day for the house of Savoy": Crown prince Filiberto is captured by the French, his brother Filippo and their cousin (also named Filippo) die in battle.
1769, August: Battle of Belfort. French kick out German troops from French soil. However, the Swiss Confederation now enters the war against France.
1770, March: Battle of De Panne. French defeat Dutch, who complain that the Brits didn't support them.
1770, July: British-Spanish army defeated before Limoges. Spain reatreats from France, fights defensively.
1770, September: Battle of Pont-a-Mousson. German-Swiss-Hungarian troops defeated by French.
1771, February: Spaniards fight off French attack against the Pyrenees.
1771, July: Battle of Saarbrücken. French occupy SW Germany between Mosel and Rhine rivers.
1771, November: French Royalists in Algeria attempt a landing, supported by the Spanish navy, in South France. The landing itself is successful, but the people doesn't raise against the republic, and the landed troops are defeated. Many ships have to be abandoned.
1772, January: After the French used the holidays to move their armies, while the Spaniards were celebrating, Catalonia is overrun by the French.
1772, April: Battle of Maasmechelen. Last German-Dutch army defeated.
1772: Peace of Brussels. All the German lands west of the Rhine are annexed by France, plus the lands of Berg and Baden at the right bank. So are Spain north of the Ebro, French-speaking Switzerland, the Alsace, (old) Savoy and Nice. Switzerland is neutralized again.
In the HRE, the first Pole (king Stanislaw of the Koniecpolski family) is elected emperor.
Uprisings in Portugal against Spanish rule start again.
Stories:
[post=819143]France under the estates (Very long story)[/post]
[post=841520]The Russian danger[/post]
[post=989395]Application for the ban on a movie[/post]
First a little retcon:
1607: The Sixtine calendar (technically equivalent to OTL Gregorian Calendar) is introduced in Western Europe. Only the Gottesfreistaat Münster refuses to introduce it, which will happen later in 1679.
1690, April: Sea battle of Ibiza. United Spanish-Italian fleet defeats French-Savoy fleet.
And now things become revolutionary interesting...
The World 1750-75:
Russian lands:
1750s: Steppe Wars begin. Novorussians fight the various steppe people (Kirghiz, Kara-Kitai, even what remains of the Kipchaks) between Russia and Choresm (OTL Kazakhstan).
1754: First telegraph line in another country but Novorossiya, connecting Kiev and Chernigov.
1765: Dynamo invented in Novorossiya.
1770-79: Russian Civil War. Novorossiya and Kiev-Chernigov defeat Vladimir-Suzdal, send the Czar to exile, divide Vladimir between them.
East Asia:
1756: Spain allies with Nippon against Novorossiya and Korea, starts converting the Nipponese and modernizing their army.
1761/62: Kyushu uprising against Korea, Nippon reunited.
1763: Reacting to their defeat, Korea gets closer to Novorossiya - building telegraph lines, importing new weapons, and even letting Orthodox missionaries into the country.
1766: Indochinese League falls apart, when Khmer conquer Champa.
1774: Pegu (S Burma) invades N Burma, where they meet Chinese troops and (more or less) surprisingly defeat them.
Muslim lands:
1752-57: Persia fights the Seljuks, South Russia joins them; Armenia liberated, Syria and Palestine go to Persia. The Seljuk empire now is reduced to Anatolia, Greece, Bulgaria and OTL Romania.
1758: "Young Seljuks" topple the sultan Süleyman VIII, make new sultan Kay Khusrau X introduce a constitution, which introduces a kind of a parliament (all adult educated male Muslims may elect representatives).
1768: Egypt uses the opportunity and takes French Sinai. France is cut off from Asia again.
1773: First telegraph in Persia.
Atlantis:
1751: Spain discovers Hawaii, claims the island chain, starts radical Christianization.
1752: Denmark-Braunschweig and Italy make a contract about their lands in Atlantis, which gives Italy OTL southern tip of Illinois.
1760: First Russian settlement in Atlantis (Novorossisk, on Vancouver island) gets representation in the Central Vyetje.
1769: King Francesco III occupies the valuable Caribbean colony Nouvelle France (OTL Haiti) for Italy. The other powers protest, since they can't interfere.
1771: As one of his first deeds, Gioacchino sends troops to Atlantis and attacks Caroline, south of Italia Nuova, which is conquered and added to Italia Nuova until 1773.
Central Europe:
1758: First telegraph line in a Catholic land (Hungary).
1761: The protector of Venice dies. Traditionally the new one has to be appointed by the French king, which can't happen due to France lacking a king. Italy uses the opportunity and annexes Venice, including Dalmatia, since France is distracted.
The Seljuks also strike, take the Venetian islands in the Agaean.
1762: First telegraph in Italy.
1764: First telegraph in Poland.
1765: Duke Franz of Bavaria dies. Franconia-Pomerania and Württemberg-Austria make claims, since the appointed successor doesn't descend in direct male line from the Wittelsbachs. He manages to defend his lands in the short Southern German War (1766/67), though.
1768: First telegraph in a German state (Bavaria).
1770: Joaquin / Gioacchino, last surviving male of the Alvarez dynasty (there are rumors that his cousin and predecessor was killed because of taking Nouvelle France), becomes king of Italy.
Charles VI of Hungary also dies, leaving the country in a critical situation to his comparably less competent son.
Northern and Western Europe:
1759: First telegraph in Sweden.
1762: In the French estates, the majority of the Third Estate advocates making France a republic for the first time.
1763: After a bad harvest, peasants revolt and march to Paris. The Third Estate also feels threatened, demands reforms (like allowing the peasants to hunt) mostly at the expense of the nobles. The estates are split, but many clerics and lower nobles are pragmatic enough to support the Third Estate, so the reforms are pushed through. The conservative opposition takes this as an affront, leaves the assembly. With this step, the remaining assembly becomes more and more radical.
Later that year: The first written constitution is introduced. It gives power for legislation to a parliament, which is elected by all adult male citizens above a certain level of income.
Even later that year: First elections. France is officially made a republic.
1764: Early in the year, the duke of Guise protests the reforms, raises troops and takes power in NE France. The assembly decides to fight him, makes a law, forcing all the nobles and clerics to swear an oath on the new constitution. Those who resist are disowned.
1764-67: French Civil War.
1765: Governors of Nouvelle France, Algeria, Caroline and Louisiana declare independence - until France has a king again. Lacking a navy (because the mostly noble captains don't want to fight for a republic and thus deserted), France can't take them back.
Despite of the War, France builds its first telegraph line.
1768: After the death of the more cool-headed kings Humphrey III and IV of Britain and Héctor II of Spain, who were self-assured enough not to be impressed by the king-less situation of France, diplomatic tensions to France rapidly worsen. The first French Republican War begins. Savoy, the Netherlands, even Hungary under hesitating Charles VI and many German states join the coalition; only Italy stays neutral.
1768, September: Battle of Verdun. German armies defeat French.
1769: France orders the "levee en masse", creating the republican armies.
The pope flees from Avignon, first down the Rhone river to Corse, but later moves his seat to Toledo, Spain, since Italy doesn't want to enter the war. In Spain, he outspeaks decidedly against republicanism, further encouraging the "monarchist crusade" feeling among the reigning classes in Europe. There are some hopes among conservatives that this may bring the national churches closer together and give the pope more power.
1769, April: British troops land in Aquitaine, to unite with the Spaniards.
1769, May: Battle of Aix-en-Provence - "the blackest day for the house of Savoy": Crown prince Filiberto is captured by the French, his brother Filippo and their cousin (also named Filippo) die in battle.
1769, August: Battle of Belfort. French kick out German troops from French soil. However, the Swiss Confederation now enters the war against France.
1770, March: Battle of De Panne. French defeat Dutch, who complain that the Brits didn't support them.
1770, July: British-Spanish army defeated before Limoges. Spain reatreats from France, fights defensively.
1770, September: Battle of Pont-a-Mousson. German-Swiss-Hungarian troops defeated by French.
1771, February: Spaniards fight off French attack against the Pyrenees.
1771, July: Battle of Saarbrücken. French occupy SW Germany between Mosel and Rhine rivers.
1771, November: French Royalists in Algeria attempt a landing, supported by the Spanish navy, in South France. The landing itself is successful, but the people doesn't raise against the republic, and the landed troops are defeated. Many ships have to be abandoned.
1772, January: After the French used the holidays to move their armies, while the Spaniards were celebrating, Catalonia is overrun by the French.
1772, April: Battle of Maasmechelen. Last German-Dutch army defeated.
1772: Peace of Brussels. All the German lands west of the Rhine are annexed by France, plus the lands of Berg and Baden at the right bank. So are Spain north of the Ebro, French-speaking Switzerland, the Alsace, (old) Savoy and Nice. Switzerland is neutralized again.
In the HRE, the first Pole (king Stanislaw of the Koniecpolski family) is elected emperor.
Uprisings in Portugal against Spanish rule start again.
Stories:
[post=819143]France under the estates (Very long story)[/post]
[post=841520]The Russian danger[/post]
[post=989395]Application for the ban on a movie[/post]
Last edited:
Tehran to Damascus to Jerusalem to Mecca to Madagascar to Delhi and back... Are the Persians going to claim the Caliphate or what? They certainly have a much better claim to it that anyone else.
Republican France seems like it's a bit less radicalized in this timeline. I guess the question is whether they can avoid getting carried away. If they just sit there, they've got Western Europe in the bag. But if they feel the need to go a-liberating...
"I just want to be First Consul, I swear!"
Republican France seems like it's a bit less radicalized in this timeline. I guess the question is whether they can avoid getting carried away. If they just sit there, they've got Western Europe in the bag. But if they feel the need to go a-liberating...
"I just want to be First Consul, I swear!"
Nice timeline, great details i want to see more and also i would like a worldmap.
Just one question, is the OTL Flandres in possesion of France now?
i want to see more and also i would like a worldmap.Just one question, is the OTL Flandres in possesion of France now?
16. The World, 1775-1800
Max Sinister
Banned
@Admiral Matt: I don't know why no Persian dynasty IOTL claimed the title Caliph... probably because it wasn't necessary anymore, or because of the Shiite religion, which tells that the rightful leader (the Twelfth Imam) is hidden somewhere.
@Wendell: I'm working at some maps. Sorry if they're late.
@Blackadder: Thank you. Yes, part of Flanders were French several times, and now, the French own everything west of the Rhine anyway (and all the Netherlands).
And here's The World, 1775-1800:
Eastern Europe / Russian lands:
1777: Orthodox Serbians and Bosnians raise against Hungarian rule, become independent again.
1780s: Many old Russian cities get representation in the Central Vyetye of Novorossiya.
1785-87: Novorossiya attacks weakened Sweden, conquers Finland, Estonia.
1786: After the death of duke Balthasar V of Prussia (and claimant for dukedom of Thuringia), his three sons struggle for power in Prussia. Pomerania-Mecklenburg, Brandenburg-Silesia, Poland, Sweden-Norway and the two Russias all support various sides in the war.
1794: Novorossiya interferes in Prussian Civil War, destroys Prussian fleet. Prussia comes under Russian occupation.
Atlantis:
1776: A canal connecting Ohio and Mississippi built in German Atlantis. (South tip of Illinois is part of Italia Nuova.)
1782: Louisiana conquered by Italy, which now rules all the former French colonies.
1791: The first transoceanic telegraph cable (so to speak - it connects OTL Siberia and Alaska) built.
1793: East of OTL Hispaniola occupied by Italy.
1794: Smaller islands in the Caribbean occupied by Italy, before Britain can get them. Britain tries to take advantage of Denmark's fall and retake the later's part of Atlantis, at least New England.
Cuba, Florida, Texas, California, Mexico and Spanish South Atlantis declare independence.
1795: The "Schulzenaufstand" (Mayors' Uprising - yes, "Schulze" is an old German term for "Bürgermeister" / Mayor) in German Atlantis. After the end of Denmark-Braunschweig as a state, they declare themselves independent, form a confederation similar to Switzerland. Italy accepts the new situation, leaders of Britain and the former Spanish colonies foam at the mouth.
~1800: British, German and Italian settlements have reached the Rocky Mountains, where they make contact to Novorussian settlers. Germans found Silberstadt in OTL Montana; Italians form the new province of TTL Montana (roughly OTL East Colorado).
Rest of the world:
1787: Independent Portugal tries to reclaim its former colonies in Guinea, where meanwhile a Portuguese-speaking Mulatto upper class rules. The trial is not successful, but trade is reopened (no slave trade with Europe, though).
Muslim World:
1778: Choresm occupies OTL Sinkiang.
1781-88: After Seljuks try to reimpose their rule over Serbia and Bosnia, South Russia interferes on their side. Moldovia, Vlachia invaded. In the peace of Odessa, both become Russian tributaries.
1789: After the lost war, sultan Kilij Arslan VII is replaced by Kay Qubadh VI, who has to leave most power to the parliament.
1790s: Shiite refugees from Seljuk sultanate and North Africa arrive in Persia.
1798-1800: Conquest of Algeria by Italy, with silent support by the French republic.
East Asia:
1780s: Champa (S Vietnam), Thailand and Pegu (S Burma) invade the sinicized nations of Laos, Vietnam and Ava (N Burma) and even the South of China, including the former kingdom of Dali. It is quite obvious that the emperor has lost the Mandate of Heaven.
1789: General Lin Xiaolong ("Little Dragon"), commander of the troops in the province of Peking, declares himself new emperor. Without anyone realizing the situation, because everything happens so fast, he soon reigns the whole north-east of China. Novorossiya supports him too.
1794: General Lin Xiaolong crosses the Yangtse.
1797: Nanking besieged by Lin Xiaolong.
1798: After the fall of Spain, Christianity in Nippon takes a new way - the king (he's not called emperor ITTL by foreigners) is accepted as the spiritual head of the country and church. Nipponese Christianity is still more the radical kind.
1800: Hong emperor flees to Tungning (OTL Taiwan), which is governed together with the Philippines by him - the rest of his empire. Since he takes most of the navy with him, Lin Xiaolong can't do anything. Lin Xiaolong starts the new dynasty Ming ("brightness"), takes the throne name Yongzhi 永智, "Everlasting Wisdom".
Western Europe:
1770s: Denmark-Braunschweig, Britain and Spain build their first telegraph lines, being the last European nations to do so.
Late 1770s: After the downfall of the French Indochinese Compagnie, France is struck by a severe financial crisis. General Boulanger takes "temporal power" (which has to be accepted by plebiscites once per five years).
1779: Last duke of Savoy dies. His country goes to Italy, due to a contract he made with king Gioacchino.
War between republican France and the British-Spanish-German-Polish-Hungarian-Danish-Swedish coalition breaks out again.
1780: War starts promising for the coalition when the Spaniards retake Catalonia and the German-British-Dutch armies cross the Rhine and invade the Palatinate.
1781: Tide of war turn again for France, when Boulanger defeats the coalition armies at Worms (June) and Weissenburg (September) and the Spaniards have to retreat behind the Ebro too.
1782: French assembly proclaims to liberate all the people in Europe from their royal yoke.
1783: "The thrust through Germany". General Boulanger crosses the Rhine, marches through South Hesse, Württemberg, Franconia, Thuringia until arriving in Dresden at christmas.
1784: Winter battle of Aussig. French republican armies invade Bohemia.
1784: Peace of Basel. Bohemia, Hesse, Franconia and Thuringia-Meissen (OTL Thuringia and Saxony) become officially French satellite republics. The remaining Netherlands become part of France itself. Württemberg proper becomes a part of the Swiss republic, which is another French satellite. Sweden-Norway also has to cede Mecklenburg to the duke of Pomerania, which causes king Johan II of Sweden to doubt the cause of the Royalists. The HRE is dissolved. South Aragon (Valencia) is also ceded to France, Portugal becomes an independent republic.
1788: After the heirless death of Kristian V, last Welf king of Denmark-Braunschweig, Polish king and former HREmperor Stanislaw starts regency.
1790: France and Sweden make a secret alliance against Denmark-Braunschweig.
1791: After the death of king Francisco of Spain, his hot-headed grandson becomes king instead. He pressures for war against France, which breaks out again. This is despite the fact that this coalition is even weaker than ever before. Nassau, one of the strongest German states, stays neutral, Sweden-Norway sides with France.
1791, July: Battle of Ingolstadt. French-German armies cross the Danube.
1793: Peace of Frankfurt. Bavaria, Brandenburg-Silesia, Pomerania and Braunschweig (incl. Schleswig-Holstein) are turned into republics too. Denmark proper goes to Sweden. Spain occupied by France (except Galicia, which is occupied by Portugal). The Spanish royal family goes to Morocco, the pope flees to Canterbury, Britain, which swears to continue the fight. This leads to a costly "perpetual war" when Britain continually tries to attack French coasts and support uprisings in Spain and Germany.
The only monarchist states remaining in Western Europe are Britain, Italy, Sweden-Norway-Denmark, Hungary, Poland, and the German states of Austria and Nassau - less than ten, for the first time.
1797: Royalist (French-Spanish) fleet of the Mediterranean destroyed by Italians. Baleares held by them become Italian.
1799: General Boulanger puts power down (deliberately!), regular elections are held again.
Since 1790s: Many nobles and other opponents of the French republic flee from their sphere of influence. Germans use to go to Atlantis, Nassau or Hungarian Austria, all others go to Britain or their colonies of Braseal and Argentine, where many get land from the British state. Many Spaniards also flee to Morocco.
--
Stories (longer):
[post=833496]King Gioacchino of Italy[/post]
[post=838576]Chinese Revolution[/post]
[post=865605]History of the "Schulzenaufstand"[/post] (Atlantis)
@Wendell: I'm working at some maps. Sorry if they're late.
@Blackadder: Thank you. Yes, part of Flanders were French several times, and now, the French own everything west of the Rhine anyway (and all the Netherlands).
And here's The World, 1775-1800:
Eastern Europe / Russian lands:
1777: Orthodox Serbians and Bosnians raise against Hungarian rule, become independent again.
1780s: Many old Russian cities get representation in the Central Vyetye of Novorossiya.
1785-87: Novorossiya attacks weakened Sweden, conquers Finland, Estonia.
1786: After the death of duke Balthasar V of Prussia (and claimant for dukedom of Thuringia), his three sons struggle for power in Prussia. Pomerania-Mecklenburg, Brandenburg-Silesia, Poland, Sweden-Norway and the two Russias all support various sides in the war.
1794: Novorossiya interferes in Prussian Civil War, destroys Prussian fleet. Prussia comes under Russian occupation.
Atlantis:
1776: A canal connecting Ohio and Mississippi built in German Atlantis. (South tip of Illinois is part of Italia Nuova.)
1782: Louisiana conquered by Italy, which now rules all the former French colonies.
1791: The first transoceanic telegraph cable (so to speak - it connects OTL Siberia and Alaska) built.
1793: East of OTL Hispaniola occupied by Italy.
1794: Smaller islands in the Caribbean occupied by Italy, before Britain can get them. Britain tries to take advantage of Denmark's fall and retake the later's part of Atlantis, at least New England.
Cuba, Florida, Texas, California, Mexico and Spanish South Atlantis declare independence.
1795: The "Schulzenaufstand" (Mayors' Uprising - yes, "Schulze" is an old German term for "Bürgermeister" / Mayor) in German Atlantis. After the end of Denmark-Braunschweig as a state, they declare themselves independent, form a confederation similar to Switzerland. Italy accepts the new situation, leaders of Britain and the former Spanish colonies foam at the mouth.
~1800: British, German and Italian settlements have reached the Rocky Mountains, where they make contact to Novorussian settlers. Germans found Silberstadt in OTL Montana; Italians form the new province of TTL Montana (roughly OTL East Colorado).
Rest of the world:
1787: Independent Portugal tries to reclaim its former colonies in Guinea, where meanwhile a Portuguese-speaking Mulatto upper class rules. The trial is not successful, but trade is reopened (no slave trade with Europe, though).
Muslim World:
1778: Choresm occupies OTL Sinkiang.
1781-88: After Seljuks try to reimpose their rule over Serbia and Bosnia, South Russia interferes on their side. Moldovia, Vlachia invaded. In the peace of Odessa, both become Russian tributaries.
1789: After the lost war, sultan Kilij Arslan VII is replaced by Kay Qubadh VI, who has to leave most power to the parliament.
1790s: Shiite refugees from Seljuk sultanate and North Africa arrive in Persia.
1798-1800: Conquest of Algeria by Italy, with silent support by the French republic.
East Asia:
1780s: Champa (S Vietnam), Thailand and Pegu (S Burma) invade the sinicized nations of Laos, Vietnam and Ava (N Burma) and even the South of China, including the former kingdom of Dali. It is quite obvious that the emperor has lost the Mandate of Heaven.
1789: General Lin Xiaolong ("Little Dragon"), commander of the troops in the province of Peking, declares himself new emperor. Without anyone realizing the situation, because everything happens so fast, he soon reigns the whole north-east of China. Novorossiya supports him too.
1794: General Lin Xiaolong crosses the Yangtse.
1797: Nanking besieged by Lin Xiaolong.
1798: After the fall of Spain, Christianity in Nippon takes a new way - the king (he's not called emperor ITTL by foreigners) is accepted as the spiritual head of the country and church. Nipponese Christianity is still more the radical kind.
1800: Hong emperor flees to Tungning (OTL Taiwan), which is governed together with the Philippines by him - the rest of his empire. Since he takes most of the navy with him, Lin Xiaolong can't do anything. Lin Xiaolong starts the new dynasty Ming ("brightness"), takes the throne name Yongzhi 永智, "Everlasting Wisdom".
Western Europe:
1770s: Denmark-Braunschweig, Britain and Spain build their first telegraph lines, being the last European nations to do so.
Late 1770s: After the downfall of the French Indochinese Compagnie, France is struck by a severe financial crisis. General Boulanger takes "temporal power" (which has to be accepted by plebiscites once per five years).
1779: Last duke of Savoy dies. His country goes to Italy, due to a contract he made with king Gioacchino.
War between republican France and the British-Spanish-German-Polish-Hungarian-Danish-Swedish coalition breaks out again.
1780: War starts promising for the coalition when the Spaniards retake Catalonia and the German-British-Dutch armies cross the Rhine and invade the Palatinate.
1781: Tide of war turn again for France, when Boulanger defeats the coalition armies at Worms (June) and Weissenburg (September) and the Spaniards have to retreat behind the Ebro too.
1782: French assembly proclaims to liberate all the people in Europe from their royal yoke.
1783: "The thrust through Germany". General Boulanger crosses the Rhine, marches through South Hesse, Württemberg, Franconia, Thuringia until arriving in Dresden at christmas.
1784: Winter battle of Aussig. French republican armies invade Bohemia.
1784: Peace of Basel. Bohemia, Hesse, Franconia and Thuringia-Meissen (OTL Thuringia and Saxony) become officially French satellite republics. The remaining Netherlands become part of France itself. Württemberg proper becomes a part of the Swiss republic, which is another French satellite. Sweden-Norway also has to cede Mecklenburg to the duke of Pomerania, which causes king Johan II of Sweden to doubt the cause of the Royalists. The HRE is dissolved. South Aragon (Valencia) is also ceded to France, Portugal becomes an independent republic.
1788: After the heirless death of Kristian V, last Welf king of Denmark-Braunschweig, Polish king and former HREmperor Stanislaw starts regency.
1790: France and Sweden make a secret alliance against Denmark-Braunschweig.
1791: After the death of king Francisco of Spain, his hot-headed grandson becomes king instead. He pressures for war against France, which breaks out again. This is despite the fact that this coalition is even weaker than ever before. Nassau, one of the strongest German states, stays neutral, Sweden-Norway sides with France.
1791, July: Battle of Ingolstadt. French-German armies cross the Danube.
1793: Peace of Frankfurt. Bavaria, Brandenburg-Silesia, Pomerania and Braunschweig (incl. Schleswig-Holstein) are turned into republics too. Denmark proper goes to Sweden. Spain occupied by France (except Galicia, which is occupied by Portugal). The Spanish royal family goes to Morocco, the pope flees to Canterbury, Britain, which swears to continue the fight. This leads to a costly "perpetual war" when Britain continually tries to attack French coasts and support uprisings in Spain and Germany.
The only monarchist states remaining in Western Europe are Britain, Italy, Sweden-Norway-Denmark, Hungary, Poland, and the German states of Austria and Nassau - less than ten, for the first time.
1797: Royalist (French-Spanish) fleet of the Mediterranean destroyed by Italians. Baleares held by them become Italian.
1799: General Boulanger puts power down (deliberately!), regular elections are held again.
Since 1790s: Many nobles and other opponents of the French republic flee from their sphere of influence. Germans use to go to Atlantis, Nassau or Hungarian Austria, all others go to Britain or their colonies of Braseal and Argentine, where many get land from the British state. Many Spaniards also flee to Morocco.
--
Stories (longer):
[post=833496]King Gioacchino of Italy[/post]
[post=838576]Chinese Revolution[/post]
[post=865605]History of the "Schulzenaufstand"[/post] (Atlantis)
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