Chaos TL: A world without Genghis Khan's conquests (finished!)

[Max Sinister]

Eastern Europe, 1500-50

Eastern Europe, 1500-50:

Since 1500: The conflict between Vladimir-Suzdal and Kiev-Chernigov continues to simmer. Trade between the two Russias is often hampered, conflicts several times lead to war (although neither country is strong enough to subdue the other one). Both nations build forts and later fortresses along their common border.

~1510: Settlements in Novorossiya as far as Yenissei river.

1512-17: Novgorodian War. Vladimir-Suzdal defeats the old competitor, annexes it. Many Novgorodians who miss their old freedom go to Novorossiya.

1516: Russian merchants find their way into Hong China. On their return they spread tales about Chunkwo (?????? - derived from Zhongguo), which even reach the court in Vladimir. Novorossiyan traders start to get rich on the trade with goods from China.

1518: Russians from Kiev-Chernigov who settled in the Kipchak lands east of Don have reached enough strength that they dare to stop paying taxes to the Muslim beys of the area.

1521: Novorussian (Siberian) merchant families officially are granted the right by the Grand Prince of Vladimir to trade with China.

1522: A Russian ship from Kholmogory (at the site of OTL Archangelsk) goes around Scandinavia and finds its way to Scotland. After some confusion, the Scots find a cleric who can speak Greek to translate. This leads to the start of direct British-Russian trade.

1526: Since the Occidental War interferes with British-Russian trade, the Dutch jump in, trade Russia all things they need.

1530: As stated earlier, Russian warriors in Kipchak lands expelled to Kiev-Chernigov by the Seljuks.

1533-35: Russians in the former princedom of Smolensk ask the Grand Prince for help against Poland. A war breaks out, but this time, the Poles can defend their old border.

1538-40: Clash with Choresmian troops and Mongol (and related) warriors. They ask the Grand Prince for help, which they don't get - which they won't forget.

1539: Dvoryans (Russian for "warriors" - TTL equivalent of Cossacks) in the Kipchak lands make an alliance with Kiev-Chernigov, plan a war against Muslims.

~1540: Settlements in Novorossiya at Lake Baikal.

1540-44: Kipchak lands east of the Don conquered, Russians proclaim the Dvoryan republic of Kipchakia.

1542: First Russian printing press (with Cyrillian letters).

1548: Peace of Orel; Kiev-Chernigov has to cede the county of Kursk.

~1550: Settlements in Novorossiya at Lena river.

A bit about the [post=683539]religious history of Novorossiya[/post]

 

[Straha]

Hm. Deporting muslims to the new world. Some how I'm not so sure this iwll be good for the empire responsible in the long run

 

[Max Sinister]

East Asia, 1500-50

@Straha: We'll see.

And here's East Asia, 1500-50:

Retcon first:
1453 (3150, Yin Water Chicken): Assam start paying tribute to the Hong.

1463 (3160, Yin Water Sheep): Arakan (Assam's neighbor) also becomes part of the Chinese sphere of influence.

1492 (3189, Yang Water Rat): Sultan of Bengal pays tribute to Hong.

Since 1500: Overpopulation in China proper leads to the state founding new settlements on Taiwan, later on the Philippine islands too.

The Indianized states in SE Asia, now influenced by Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese culture, develop new philosophies and religious schools. There are sects which start to pray to the legendary "Yellow Emperor" as a new god, or Confucius himself (who is popular among the SE Asian officials, as a kind of god of bureaucracy).

1502 (3199, Yang Water Rat): The "Betrayal of Bengal": After the sultan of Bengal requested military and technical advisors from the Hong, who helped him to equip his army with cannons, he stops paying tribute. Chinese traders are ousted from Bengal.

1509-21: Civil War in Japan after the emperor tries to take power for himself. The war is fought with the new weapons, the Chinese bamboo guns and bronze cannons the Japanese have improved - the samurai have become meaningless. Some of them flee to Ezo (Hokkaido).

1514: Confucianism state religion in Ava (inner Burma).

1516-18: Border war in Arakan. Bengal is defeated by Hong vassals, has to retreat.

1525/26: The Sulu incidence: Chinese merchants are harassed by fanatical Muslims in the Sulu sultanate. After the emperor sends a Treasure fleet, the problems can be solved - but at the court, some people start to criticize Islam, seeing it as a problem for the divine order.

1529 (3226, Yin Earth Rabbit): Russian-Orthodox monks come to China to missionarize, meet to their surprise the Nestorian communities.

1533-36: After another incident on Aceh, Chinese troops are sent to punish the sultan. While they can control the sea, the army landed on Sumatra is defeated.

1539/40: Melaka attacks Aceh with Chinese help, annexes it.

1548 (3245, Yang Earth Dog): A Russian delegation is received at the court in Nanjing.

Read [post=686770]about the Japanese Trade Empire[/post]!

 

[Straha]

I was thinking on the lines of a *US type nation set up in latin america thats descended from exiled christian heretics, muslims and jews...

 

[Max Sinister]

I can't imagine that. It'd be like an anti-Bush coalition made up of various organizations for gays, blacks and Jews - all they have in common is the common enemy, but that's not enough to found a lasting state. Wait until some philosopher invents religious tolerance, and even then it's VERY difficult.

 

[HelloLegend]

which Emperor tried to take power? was the historical Emperors of Japan butterflied?

 

[Admiral Matt]

So does Scotland control all of Ireland, or just the parts that had belonged to the English?

 

[Max Sinister]

Middle East 1550-1600

@HelloLegend: If you had read the TL carefully, you'd have found out that since the not-happened Mongol invasion of Japan in 1274 everything changed in the country. The last recognizable charcter from OTL is Hojo Sadatoki who died in 1311.
@Admiral Matt: Yes, Scotland reigns all of Ireland now (although the reign is more loose than the English one).

And here's Middle East 1550-1600:

~1550: Arab captains in the Red Sea start to equip their ships with European iron cannons, which are superior to the Chinese bronze cannons, start piracy in the Indian Ocean.

1556-65: England-Castille-Portugal declares war on the Seljuks, enraged over the fate of Rome. Savoy and Florence join the war.

1559: Rome reconquered by Christians; all the Muslims found there are massacred.

1562: Sea battle of Malta; Seljuk-Barbary fleet decimated.

1565: Peace of Ostia. Seljuks give up Latium (to Florence) and the Marches, Algiers, Tunis and Sicily (to E-C-P). The Romans displaced ~20 years ago return in triumph. The victorious Italians demand that the Pope returns to Rome, which the French king denies.

1567-74: France, Venice and the HRE declare war on the weakened Seljuks.

1569: French land at Port Said, conquer the city.

1571: Seljuks conquer Port Said back.

1572: After another uprising of the Carbonari, Florence joins the war, attacks Naples.

1574: Peace of Krems (Austria). Seljuks have to cede Dalmatia to Venice, the county of Naples to Florence, Salzburg to Bavaria, Austria to Württemberg-Carinthia and western Hungary to France. Francois of Bourbon elected new king of Hungary.

1577: A Seljuk-Omani fleet defeats a Chinese Treasure fleet, takes unbelievable riches with them.

1580-82: The former tributary Georgia is made a Seljuk province. Protests and uprisings are put down, not without cruelty.

1586: Arab pirates take the Maledives, extend their radius.

1591: Arab pirates capture several cities on Sri Lanka.

Read [post=689078]a little travelogue here[/post]!

 

[Nicole]

Yay, the Seljuks are dying! Though poor Georgia...

 

[Admiral Matt]

This raises some interesting questions regarding the fate of England. Does having an extensive Mediterranean Empire hurt it's potential to lead the Industrial Revolution or help it?

 

[Constantinople]

Good! Rome is free!

 

[NFR]

Eastern Europe, 1500-50:

Since 1500: The conflict between Vladimir-Suzdal and Kiev-Chernigov continues to simmer. Trade between the two Russias is often hampered, conflicts several times lead to war (although neither country is strong enough to subdue the other one). Both nations build forts and later fortresses along their common border.

I don't know if you should call the Kiev polity 'Russian'. Perhaps Rus'ia... but that is splitting hairs.

~1510: Settlements in Novorossiya as far as Yenissei river.

I see that you changed the definition of Novorossiya from ours. That makes sense given the different direction taken by the Russian state, but I admit it does sound a bit weird to me.

1512-17: Novgorodian War. Vladimir-Suzdal defeats the old competitor, annexes it. Many Novgorodians who miss their old freedom go to Novorossiya.

1516: Russian merchants find their way into Hong China. On their return they spread tales about Chunkwo (?????? - derived from Zhongguo), which even reach the court in Vladimir. Novorossiyan traders start to get rich on the trade with goods from China.

Russian word for China is Kitai (Кита́й), derived from the Khitae of North China and Kara-Khitae. That is also the root of the word 'Cathay', I believe. Chunkwo wouldn't have made much sense in Russian linguistically.

1518: Russians from Kiev-Chernigov who settled in the Kipchak lands east of Don have reached enough strength that they dare to stop paying taxes to the Muslim beys of the area.

1521: Novorussian (Siberian) merchant families officially are granted the right by the Grand Prince of Vladimir to trade with China.

Would trade pattern be like our world? I see no reason why not. Furs and tea and silver and lumber and silk and.. well you get the idea.

1522: A Russian ship from Kholmogory (at the site of OTL Archangelsk) goes around Scandinavia and finds its way to Scotland. After some confusion, the Scots find a cleric who can speak Greek to translate. This leads to the start of direct British-Russian trade.

Kholmogory is actually in Archaneglsk oblast , but I am sure you know that already. What is this trade going to be like, by the way? We can sell wood well from that area, maybe fish and some other sundries... The Baltic trade is more profitable, though limited in other ways, of course.

1526: Since the Occidental War interferes with British-Russian trade, the Dutch jump in, trade Russia all things they need.

1530: As stated earlier, Russian warriors in Kipchak lands expelled to Kiev-Chernigov by the Seljuks.

Bah.

1533-35: Russians in the former princedom of Smolensk ask the Grand Prince for help against Poland. A war breaks out, but this time, the Poles can defend their old border.

1538-40: Clash with Choresmian troops and Mongol (and related) warriors. They ask the Grand Prince for help, which they don't get - which they won't forget.

Slightly confused, who asked the Grand Prince for help?

1539: Dvoryans (Russian for "warriors" - TTL equivalent of Cossacks) in the Kipchak lands make an alliance with Kiev-Chernigov, plan a war against Muslims.

The dvoryanstvo are more like knights/ cossacks than warriors, but anyway. This is a great detail, since it evolves quite naturally from the origin of the word at around the same time as the point of departure. Many kudos!

~1540: Settlements in Novorossiya at Lake Baikal.

This is going to be fun. We'd be running into the Mongols in strength now.

1540-44: Kipchak lands east of the Don conquered, Russians proclaim the Dvoryan republic of Kipchakia.

1542: First Russian printing press (with Cyrillian letters).

1548: Peace of Orel; Kiev-Chernigov has to cede the county of Kursk.

~1550: Settlements in Novorossiya at Lena river.

A bit about the [post=683539]religious history of Novorossiya[/post]

We probably won't call the Kipchak lands Kichakiya, more possibly Polovtsiya.

This raises some interesting questions regarding the fate of England. Does having an extensive Mediterranean Empire hurt it's potential to lead the Industrial Revolution or help it?

Well, the physical ingredients are still there. Not sure about the sociological impact, however. Would English land-owners still enclose the way they did? My feeling is that it would, but that it would be relatively limited to geographical England.

 

[Max Sinister]

Western / Northern Europe, 1550-1600

@Admiral Matt: As so often - we'll see. I have to write some more about economical, social, religious, scientific and cultural changes - but not now.

@NFR: Foo, that's a long post... but let's see.

Cathay / Kitai: Yes... but IOTL this term was coined by Marco Polo, who didn't exist ITTL. For many centuries, Russia (and all of Europe) was seperated by China by many hostile states and steppe riders, and there never was a big Mongol empire which removed all inner borders. Asian-European trade only grew slowly from 12th century (pre-Genghis) level, so China is even more legendary than OTL. When Russian traders finally make it to Hong China, education and culture is on a higher level, so they adapt the real name and only russify it a bit: Zhongguo - Chunkwo.

Trade pattern: Similar - people sell what they've got and others want.

One correction: "1538-40: Clash with Choresmian troops and Mongol (and related) warriors. The merchants of Novorossiya ask the Grand Prince for help, which they don't get - which they won't forget."

About Kipchakia / Polovtsia: Wait for next update about Russia... but for the moment, here's...


Western / Northern Europe, 1550-1600:

Since 1550: The growing trade with East Asian goods (although many are still forbidden, or at least scolded at) leads people to think about a possibility to take out the middle man (the Seljuks in the South, the Russians in the North). In France, it's suggested that a conquest of the Sinai would allow them to sail the spice routes.

1551-56: The new king of England-Castille-Portugal is willing to scrap Caesaropapism, so the council of Ghent is started. After long discussions, the western churches are reunited. In return, some of the Occidental reforms [1] are introduced in the rest of the world too. Plus, the theologians from various countries, where printing is widespread meanwhile, decide an important change in the doctrine: Instead of good works, only the belief in God is what counts. The most important change (which was necessary for England-Castille-Portugal and many other countries), however, is that the church can't claim back its secularized property.
Now the pope is the highest spiritual authority in all of Western Europe again. But now, people started to question him...

1555: Alasdair / Alexander of Scotland and Ireland ends the Danish Civil War, becomes new king of Denmark.

1560: King Henry of E-C-P reorders his kingdoms. The two halves of Portugal are reunited under him as king; the traditional division of the colonies (Portugal in Africa except Morocco, Castille in Morocco and the Caribbean, England in North Atlantis) is changed a bit: English merchants of the Atlantean Company get the islands of Jamaica and All Saints (OTL Trinidad) for sugar plantages.

1562: Alasdair elected king of Norway, returning in triumph.

1567: Swedish regent Sten deposed after one of his young nephews dies suddenly under unclear circumstances. Alasdair becomes king of Sweden. He now has the crowns of five kingdoms (not even counting Finland).

1570s: "The golden years". All the great Western European states - England-Castille-Portugal, France, and Alasdair's empire have competent, popular rulers who live in peace with each other. Style of Occidentalism(o) at its height.

1580s: Biggest uprisings in Morocco and Algeria yet.

1586: After the sons of Charles VIII died without heirs, their second-grade cousin Francois of Berry becomes new king of France. He is anything but popular, but fortunately, he'll die one year later already.

1588: Death of Alasdair. His vast lands are divided: Scotland and Ireland go to his elder son Alexander, Scandinavia to his younger son Christian / Kristian.

1595: The nobles of Sweden depose king Kristian after the lost war against Vladimir, elect Albrecht / Albert of Mecklenburg new king.

1599: The kings Henry of E-C-P and Francois agree to solve their conflict in Aragon in a way that satisfies them both: Aragon is divided - Murcia and the lands south of the Ebro go to E-C-P, the lands north of it, plus the Baleares, Navarre and Sardinia (which is sold to Florence, though) to France.

[1] The Occidental church under king Edward V introduced many original laws. One part of them was directed against trade with Muslim countries, so some luxuries (silk, Syrian glassworks, East Asian spices, some radicals even demanded incense) were forbidden or severely taxed, while Occidental Christians were encouraged to replace them with Atlantean luxuries (furs, tobacco, cayenne peppers). Other new laws preached by the church heavily discriminated Jews and Muslims - a big stain, since it also meant that Arab and Hebrew books could only be acquired under great difficulties.

Read about [post=691873]the meeting of the two most powerful kings[/post] (long story)!

 

[NFR]

@NFR: Foo, that's a long post... but let's see.

Cathay / Kitai: Yes... but IOTL this term was coined by Marco Polo, who didn't exist ITTL. For many centuries, Russia (and all of Europe) was seperated by China by many hostile states and steppe riders, and there never was a big Mongol empire which removed all inner borders. Asian-European trade only grew slowly from 12th century (pre-Genghis) level, so China is even more legendary than OTL. When Russian traders finally make it to Hong China, education and culture is on a higher level, so they adapt the real name and only russify it a bit: Zhongguo - Chunkwo.

Trade pattern: Similar - people sell what they've got and others want.

One correction: "1538-40: Clash with Choresmian troops and Mongol (and related) warriors. The merchants of Novorossiya ask the Grand Prince for help, which they don't get - which they won't forget."

About Kipchakia / Polovtsia: Wait for next update about Russia... but for the moment, here's...

Well, let's see... First of all I am not sure we derive our word for China from Marco Polo - Russia had been in contact with the Mongols rather before Marco Polo, you know, and they had rather an element of the Kara-Khitae. I will have to do some digging up to say for certain, but we perhaps have an independent source of that word. I believe in Central Asia they aslo call China by that name in some variation, and we adopted it from them. In any case, Chunkwo really doesn't make sense in Russian, I mean it. For one thing, there's the 'w'. A transliteration of Zhongguo may be Chuenkho (Чунхо, a derivation of Чжунго made as close t your Chunkwo as possible)... and I am pretty sure we'd have tried to Russify the name further (vo-ending, maybe).

Everything else, right and right.

 

[Max Sinister]

Rest of the world, 16th century

@NFR: Yes, it should be rather "Chunkvo" than "Chunkwo". I was thinking in German, and in German the Cyrillian "B" is transcripted as "w" rather than "v" in English.
I chose the name to express that the educated Russians will choose sooner or later a more correct name than China or Khitai, since they're admiring China.

@everyone: Commenting [thread=32412]my stories[/thread] would be nice...

Rest of the world, 16th century:

1510s: Due to rising prices for slaves, Portuguese slave traders expand their "business" into the Congo.

1513: Kingdom of Benin sends an ambassador to Portugal.

1516: Muslim troops attack and overrun Ethiopia, ruling it for about two generations.

1540s: After the Quadruple Monarchy defeats the uprisings in Morocco, many Moroccan warriors flee to Songhay, introducing gunpowder weapons to the country.

1569: An expedition with a mixed Scandinavian crew under a captain Ingolfsson goes to Africa, sails down the coast along the Portuguese colonies, reaches Cape of Good Hope. They like the climate and tell king Alexander on their return about it.

Since ~1570: Ashanti confederacy starts to become important, also thanks to its gold riches.

1574: Scandinavians found the colony of Australafrica (Australia for short) with the capital Alexandersborg (Cape Town).

1577: Dutch start to make trade with Africa (always threatened, since this is Portuguese turf), also reach Australia. For this time, they have to accept that the Scandinavians came first.

1582: Scandinavian explorers discover Madagascar, coast of Mozambique.

1588: Scandinavian explorers reach Zanzibar. When news about this spread to Europe, the attention of the rulers moves away from Atlantis and the promising new ways to India.

1594: With Scandinavia in trouble, the Dutch use the opportunity and occupy Australia.

1600: Revolt of the "Söderlinger" (Scandinavians in Australia) against Dutch starts.

End of 16th century: Kanem-Bornu Empire reaches height of its power.

 

[Max Sinister]

Atlantis, 1550-1600

Since ~1550: Despite France expanding in the Mississippi area, the importance of North Atlantis falls (although the trade with fur and tobacco continues), while the Caribbean (with its sugar riches) becomes more important. The parts of the sugar mills (of which thousands are built) are an important step towards an industrial revolution.
Cuitláuac starts reconquering lost lands in Northern Mexico, extending to the Atlantic and Pacific again.

1551-56: At the council of Ghent, the delegates from the various nations also have to decide who should own which Caribbean island, since there are now seven nations represented (counting E-C-P as only one). There's a lot of confusion who discovered which island first, which contrasts with who officially took claim and who settled where first. At the end, all the smaller powers get a few islands, but most hope to change the situation.

1552: Castillians go up the Rio Grande, found settlements along it, to put a wedge between the French in the Mississippi valley and the Mexica. Later, those colonies become Texas.

1553: French send an expedition to North Atlantis, discover the Hudson and James Bays, found colonies here, which are called Quebec.

1554: Braunschweig-Lüneburg forms its second province in Atlantis, called Waldstätten (OTL Pennsylvanian Appalachians). Experienced woodcutters and sawmill builders are invited there from as far as Switzerland.

1557: English claim the Brazilian coast down to OTL Recife. The area is called Braseal, after the Brazilwood.

1559-61: French send an expedition up the Mississippi and Arkansas, found St. Louis. The Mississippi area is named Louisiana after the newborn son of the king (who'll die two years old, but that's another story), since there's already a Caroline and a New France around.

1560s: Inca empire conquers the southern Andes, now rules them from the Caribbean to Terra del Fuego.

1562: King Henry of E-C-P appoints a viceroy residing at Santiago (at OTL Havana's site) who coordinates governmental activities in the five capitanates / captainships: Caribbea (the islands, except Jamaica, which is under the English crown), Florida, Texas, Mayaland (collective term for all of Central America between the lands of the Tenochca and the French in Panama) and South Atlantis (OTL North Columbia, Venezuela).

1564: French build some ships in the Pacific, sail down the coast of South Atlantis, cartographing it.

1565: English expedition reaches Cape Hoorn from the east. The area south of the equator stays barely settled, though.

1570: French trading with the Inca bring the potato from the Inca empire to Europe. At first, it's treated as a curiosity, or as medicine.

1572/73: An English expedition explores the area of the river Amazon, reaches the Inca Empire from the East.

1581: A Castillian expedition crosses the Arizona desert, until they reach the Pacific.

1586: Another Castillian expedition goes up the Pacific coast of Atlantis, coming to the San Francisco Bay.

1589: French explore the source of the Tennessee river, find the way to Italia Nuova.

1590: E-C-P founds the sixth capitanate, of California.

1595: French start building a small fleet at the Great Lakes.

Read [post=697222]a Story about the fate of the Muslim slaves in Atlantis[/post]!

 

[Admiral Matt]

"1570: French trading with the Inca bring the potato from the Inca empire to Europe. At first, it's treated as a curiosity, or as medicine."

And so it begins.

Ironic that it's the French that introduce them to Europe, seeing as they stand to lose more than most once potatos pass into common use. Can't wait for the next installment.

 

[Straha]

Why do they stand to lose something because of the potato? Isn't increased agricultural productivity good?

 

[Admiral Matt]

"Why do they stand to lose something because of the potato? Isn't increased agricultural productivity good?"

Sure, but the increased productivity had a vastly larger effect on the population of Germany, Britain, and Russia.

In 1800 France had roughly 27.5 million inhabitants against the 10.5 million in the British Isles. Britain exported a significant proportion of its population to overseas colonies, something France never did. For the most part France has also experienced more immigration than Britain. Despite all this, the populations of the UK and France are nearly identical today. Admittedly marginally lower birthrates played a role in France, but the larger issue, until the last half century, was potatos.

And anyway, the French can't keep a monopoly on it. They won't know how important it is until long after it's been spread all over the continent as animal feed.

 

[Max Sinister]

Central Europe, 1550-1600

Since 1550: The trade of the Netherlands is painfully reduced; while they did most of the Atlantean trade, even that of other nations, England-Castille-Portugal doesn't need them anymore after the war. Economical crisis.

1560-66: Netherlands make war against the Gottesfreistaat Münster, but are defeated.

1560s: In the Netherlands, the so-called Puritan movements starts. They are radically against any kind of luxury, especially in the church. Many are expelled, have to go to the colonies in North Atlantis.

1562: Greifen dynasty dies out, Pomerania inherited by the Hohenzollern.

1566-70: Brandenburg-Silesia, Bavaria and Thuringia-Meissen (OTL Thuringia and SW Saxony) ally and fight the Bohemian theocracy, annex the Sudetenland.

1568: Netherlands topple unpopular king Reinald IV, make his younger brother Eduard king.

1570s: In Florence, the influx of Southern Italians leads to the rich merchants being questioned about their lifestyle. In reaction, the Matthewan movement starts, which defends their wealth. (Like OTL Calvin's teachings, they draw biblical support for their theory from the "Parable of the talents", from the Gospel of Matthew.) The duke rules that the Matthewan interpretation of the bible is the right one, and dissenters are displaced to the mountain areas of Italia Nuova.

1575: Florence appointed Grand Duchy for its efforts in the war against the Seljuks.

1577: Estates of Slovakia accept new Hungarian king Ferenc.

1580-87: Bohemian-Hungarian War. The theocracy of Bohemia is defeated, its king sent to exile in Atlantis, to be safe. Bohemia becomes part of the Bourbon domain.

1581/82: Gottesfreistaat Münster attacks the little country of Oldenburg, conquers it. Netherlands and Nassau feel seriously threatened, ask E-C-P and France for support. In the Netherlands this doesn't work out because their king dies in an unfortunate moment, but Nassau receives help (French musketeers) and defeats Münster, annexes the territories of Tecklenburg, Ravensberg, Paderborn. The religious dissenters who don't want to reconvert flee, some of them even to Atlantis.

1584: Alasdair / Alexander of Scotland elected Polish king. There are actually two grandsons of the last king alive, but being underage, the Poles want another king, hoping the mighty Alexander can protect them from the Russians.

1586: Alexander elected Roman king, as a compromise between France and E-C-P (which kings are both too young anyway).

1588: Death of Alexander.
Duke and elector Ernst V of Braunschweig-Lüneburg inherits the lands of the last sideline, Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel.

1592-97: Frisia conquered by the Dutch.

Read [post=699867]a funny war story here[/post]!