Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond
- Thread starter EnglishCanuck
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As we are only four years beyond the POD, there has yet to be any big demographic changes. More will crop up, but I'll explain more in 1870 when we get some new censuses!
I'll admit I've never seen evidence either way but I've always wondered how much of NZ's motivation at the time came down to 'better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond,' or preferring the relationship with London that they had without the extra complication of Federation.
Per my understanding the economics was also a part of it. NZ liked their direct trade deals with London and the protectionism they could place on their own goods versus that of Australia.
That may play a part down the line, but in WiF there is a perception that, despite some embarrassing defeats, the Royal Navy is still the most powerful in the world. It out and out destroyed or captured two US squadrons in 1862/63, while also enforcing a blockade of the North in both the Atlantic and Pacific. That currently weighs heavy in the minds of NZ and the Australian colonies. For Australia defence is now a land/coastal based venture that the British are less inclined to pay for, New Zealand is about to have 18,000 troops there, so they're thinking less about that.
The future of the two colonies is in a bit of flux politically, but at the very least the wheels are spinning for Australia to get together.
Is there a good source indicating the largest organized unit of civilization that the British found in Australia vs. the equivalent in New Zealand? As an uninformed American, my image is that the largest group of Australians was less than one hundred people, but in New Zealand it was 5,000-15,000 people.
I've got some histories I can unearth, but its been about half a decade since I read them. But I think most Aboriginal groups in Australia were smaller than the Maori groups on New Zealand. The Maori were indisputably better organized and capable of resisting white encroachment, and honestly the more I've learned the more I've been learned what a fascinating culture they were and how rapidly the adapted to the white settlement by comparison. Sadly not enough to overcome the technological edge of the Europeans.
True, but on a scale from Thailand (Japan?) to the Taino of how ugly the effects of the European Arrival were on the local polity, the Maori could have had it much worse.
They really could have. I don't intend to make it worse by the by.
Wait, wait, wait…
When I was rereading this thread, I realised this spoilers (or rather reference) regarding the future.
So, there will be a WW1, which will be fought between a side named “Entente” and some other group and, the Entente will win the war in expense of making their economy go boom.
Chapter 104: The Manager in Chief
Chapter 104: The Manager in Chief
January 4th, 1865
The White House, District of Columbia
The ticking of the clock in the office was oppressive. Though the winter in Washington had, thus far, been mild, each of the men in the room felt a chill. Seward anxiously smoked his cigar, while Lincoln unconsciously clenched and unclenched his hands. Hay sat in the corner seemingly trying to be as unobtrusive as possible. None were sure how they would deal with the meeting between the current president, and the president-elect of the United States.
“He’s late,” Seward said sourly.
Lincoln gave him a mirthless smile. “My friend, a President may make a man wait as long as he likes.”
“And you’re still the President until March.”
“That being so, I am powerless to direct policy otherwise. As I said in August, I must now work with him in order to save what we can, for after he takes office, there is nothing we can do to save the country.”
Seward didn’t bother to dispute that point. McClellan had been swept to office in a narrow margin, and the military defeats of the last months of 1864 had destroyed the national morale. Informal truces had existed, and been honored, all along the lines of the conflict since November, and Lincoln had deigned to challenge them. They both knew that the war could only continue if the new president sought it. That he had been heavily backed by the Copperheads made them both doubt that to be the case..
A knock at the door interrupted Seward’s thoughts and the two men shared a look. Lamon opened the door.
“Mr. President, may I present President Elect, George McClellan,” Lamon announced without a trace of awkwardness. Seward and Lincoln both stood, and the new President of the United States entered.
Standing, it was obvious to see why men called McClellan the Young Napoleon. The two men were larger, and Lincoln positively towered over him. It was odd to see him in a tasteful suit more at home to the bankers of New York than the uniforms that Seward had seen him in for years now. He still had all the youthful vigor of his 38 years, and was the youngest man to ever reach the White House. His reddish moustache was well groomed, and he looked like a dignified manager. It would play well with the presses Seward mused.
“Mr. President,” Lincoln said, reaching to shake his hand. McClellan took it stiffly and shook.
“For now, I think Mr. McClellan will do, I am not sworn in until March.” The younger man replied.
“Just so, but I may forget myself otherwise. I do think that we should treat each other as equals at least,” Lincoln smiled. When the other man didn’t answer, Lincoln changed tack. “Take a seat, please.”
Once they were all seated and refreshment offered, Lincoln cut to the heart of the matter.
“I of course must ask, as you will soon be responsible for the ongoing troubles, what policy do you intend to pursue with regards to the rebel states?”
Pausing to set his drink down, the shorter man seemed to go through some internal debate before answering.
“Mr. President, I will soon be taking this office. I will beg your forgiveness if you cannot understand that it is my prerogative to deal with the rebel states as I see fit. I have no desire to discuss what plans may come before I am sworn in.”
Seward bridled at this rank insubordination, but was surprised when McClellan went on.
“However, I am a Union man, whatever some may think,” the president-elect pointedly did not look around the room. “I desire reunion, and what means that may come from we must see. I am not adverse to negotiations. If the question of union must be decided by the sword, then it shall be decided by the sword. I could not look the soldiers I commanded in the face if I did not work to make their blood and toil count for something. No, I am not a ‘peace at any price’ man like some of my party.”
Seward doubted that to an extent, but this was perhaps uncharitable. The Democratic Party had nearly schismed like the Republicans, but the national mood had made War Democrats put aside their distaste for the Copperheads and band together. McClellan had promised that he would consider negotiations to end the war, but Seward felt he had failed to sufficiently come down as a ‘union or else’ candidate in his speech making.
“I am pleased to hear it,” Lincoln said happily.
“It should be said that if I cannot keep an army in the field, then there shall be problems,” McClellan replied.
Everyone knew the army was in poor shape. The best regiments had either ceased to exist or gone home. Men had been deserting in droves before the election, and those who had signed re-enlistment papers could be kept only until 1866, and not a moment longer. Seward doubted many of them would stay if that meant another bloody few years like these last two.
“There are hurdles to continuing the war, this is true.”
“Ruinous taxation, poor morale, and an economy on the verge of disaster,” McClellan seemed to be speaking to himself more than Lincoln now. “No, it will require a firm hand and I must have good people to do it.”
“Forgive my candor, sir,” Seward interrupted. “May I take it that you have already begun enlisting men to your cabinet?”
“Some, yes,” McClellan replied. “However, nothing will be said until I am ready.”
“I only ask because I wish to be able to deliver to you any foreign reports that may be worth noting before your administration takes office.”
“The war with England is over,” McClellan brushed the thought away. “There is little to concern ourselves with Europe until issues at home have been addressed.”
Seward had to fight to keep from exploding. France ran rampant in Mexico, Spain was eyeing Santo Domingo and some Pacific islands besides. The Pacific Squadron remained unappointed save for a single ship! The powers of Europe were eagerly awaiting to see what the new President might do! How could he be so blind to the danger?
“Our issues gentlemen, come here at home. There is a faction of your party which is deeply injurious to my own. They label me a traitor and my administration cowards for even talking of negotiations with the South. They seek to destroy this country as thoroughly as Jefferson Davis. Something must be done with them lest they ruin my administration before it takes office.”
It couldn’t be, Seward had to think to himself. Could he really believe that the Radicals are more of an obstacle to reunion than Jefferson Davis? Certainly they held a uniformly poor opinion of the president-elect, and he returned the favor. However, he couldn’t seriously view them as an impediment to peace. Not with the Copperheads slithering through the ranks of his own party.
“I unfortunately do not speak for the Radical Democracy Party and their leaders,” Lincoln said without any trace of bitterness. “They decided that themselves.”
McClellan nodded as though that were an inconvenience. “Well, be that as it may, I would request you use any influence you have to get them to speak with me, otherwise I fear that they shall prove an embarrassment by doing all they can to block my incoming administration.”
Lincoln nodded assent and Seward felt himself losing a little bit of hope. Now was the worst time for the political parties to lock horns. McClellan and the Democrats didn’t believe they needed to go beyond Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, while the Radicals said it did too little. Now they would be at each others throats. God, what a mess!
“Now, if I may, can you inform me of the current military situation?” McClellan asked.
Lincoln waved him over to a large map on the opposite wall that had been set up for the meeting. It had been updated with the latest military intelligence. Most of which did not make for happy reading. Lincoln extended an arm and began gesturing to McClellan.
“Just south of us, Mr. McClellan, the Army of the Potomac has settled into winter quarters with our advance pickets at Centreville. The secesh Army of Northern Virginia is at Fredericksburg. In the Valley there is the XX Corps, facing, we believe, a division of secesh. To our north of course the Siege of Annapolis continues, with the strong squadron of the rebel ships still lurking nearby. The army is thankfully in a sorry state! We’ve blasted them enough over the last few months!”
McClellan simply nodded, following Lincoln’s arm as he went West.
“In West Virginia the lines have remained stable, with little movement. Though I am informed that there is some talk Confederate forces have shifted to protect the Cumberland Gap. Meanwhile, in Kentucky itself, General Grant has continued his fighting with Bragg’s army.” Lincoln tapped Munfordsville on the map. “Kirby Smith won the last rebel victory of 1864 here, putting most of central Kentucky into Confederate hands again.”
“Further west, we still control the west banks of the Mississippi, and the river flotilla at Cairo is fitting out for action in the next year, but the Confederate flotilla is ready.” Lincoln shook his head. “Perfidious Albion has done us much damage, but through these ironclad ships delivered to the rebels on the Mississippi they have given the worst damage of all!”
“Next comes our hold in Arkansas where General Curtis remains strong on the Arkansas River, he has held off the Confederate invasion of last year and, we hope, will be able to pursue the conquest of Little Rock this spring.”
“I certainly hope so,” McClellan said.
“Finally, with the British withdrawal last year, we may move men from California to the east. Perhaps this will break the stalemate in Arizona. Otherwise, the land belongs to the Indians, who are raiding with impunity.”
Seward shook his head in dismay. The reports from Colorado said that a column of troops had been massacred in Nebraska Territory, but there was little that could be done this year about such an outrage. Meanwhile, the Comanche raided with impunity, and the Sioux in Dakota seemed poised to strike out at any moment. The new president would need a powerful Indian policy and quick. Seward personally doubted anything could be done on so many different fronts immediately, but he certainly hoped something could be accomplished!
“These implications are troubling, I must admit,” McClellan said at last. “And the navy?”
“The navy under Admiral Farragut is one bright light in a sea of gloom,” Lincoln beamed. “Despite strong rebel squadrons, we have bounced back from Britain’s intervention. New ironclads are being laid down to counter the Confederate threat, while we organize our squadrons for a blockade of the South once more! The days of Southern trade will be over.”
McClellan nodded again.
“If I may make some suggestions,” Lincoln said.
“No, thank you. Not today Mr. President,” McClellan hastily added. “I know every day counts in this war, but with this information I must speak with my advisors. And as we both know, I do not yet have full power over military policy. Nor can I appoint new commanders.”
“Sir, I hardly think that is the greatest concern,” Seward replied, keeping his temper.
McClellan shook his head. “I must think on this gentlemen, and I must take time to confer. I shall of course discuss matters with you further. The nation however, has entrusted winning this war to me. I shall do it as I see fit. I will be glad for your input, but cannot go without talking to my advisors and future commanders.”
So here it is, Seward fumed internally. It is as Stanton said he will say yes, yes of course, but fumble along until some fresh disaster befalls us.
More diplomatically Lincoln said, “I only seek to help. We must do all we can to save the nation.”
“And I will, Mr. President, I will.” McClellan said, gazing intently at the map. His thoughts however, were already turned far away from Lincoln’s words.
-x-x-x-x-
“Upon his election, McClellan had turned out from the Fifth Avenue Hotel to address throngs of well wishers in the streets of New York. “It is with great humility I come to accept your endorsement, and your approbation to become President of these United States. I shall endeavor to place men worthy of the office at my side to better lead this nation through these dark times,” is what he proclaimed. But the choices would both be more difficult and occasionally uninspired, than McClellan may have believed in those heady days of November 1864…
In appointing his cabinet, McClellan was as constrained by the spoils system as any other president of the era. However, that did not mean he felt compelled to work exclusively through that system and he rebuffed half a dozen requests of varying pressure for cabinet positions in order to appoint those he thought would do well. As ever, McClellan would chart his own course for better or for worse.
The McClellan Administration, left to right: Seymour, John J. Astor, Benjamin Butler, Price, Cass, and Cox
For the Secretary of State he was forced to pick Horatio Seymour. Indebted to the state of New York, and its Democratic apparatus, he needed a competent manager for the State Department and Seymour fit the bill. A powerful force in the state, he was also a shrewd politician with a knack for compromise over contentious political issues. Though the two men were not personally close, he was one political animal McClellan could cooperate with, and Seymour developed the ability to smooth over issues in the cabinet and between the Democratic Party and McClellan during his first year in office that McClellan would later admit to finding invaluable.
To manage the tumultuous finances of the United States going into 1865, he turned to a personal friend and comrade in arms, the wealthy New York financier John J. Astor. A scion of the wealthy and influential Astor family, he was also a powerful and canny financial manager in his own right, managing the vast Astor family holdings and dealings while dabbling in railroad investment.. He had served on McClellan’s staff in 1862 and 1863 saying it had been “the best time of my life” and when asked to join the cabinet, he was enthusiastic to step up to help his old commander and friend once more in the task facing the United States.
His most contentious choice was his Secretary of War, Benjamin Butler. It has been said that the turncloak general was not McClellan’s first choice, or even fifth, but he had helped deliver states to the president that he would not have been able to claim otherwise. In allegedly writing directly to Barlow, a man McClellan trusted implicitly, he had gained an audience with the president. The political clout he then commanded could simply not be ignored. McClellan found himself bringing the Massachusetts man into the fold and hoping he would be the man to take over the War Office from his enemy Stanton. Butler proved to be capable of ingratiating himself within the cabinet, but there were persistent rumors that McClellan did not fully trust this politician turned general turned cabinet member.
McClellan’s Secretary of the Navy had been a latecomer into national politics. A former lawyer, and navy veteran from the Mexican War, Rodman M. Price managed large real estate holdings in New Jersey and California, having lived successful lives on both shores. He had been the representative from New Jersey from 1851-53 and then Governor from 1853-57. He had participated in the Peace Conference of 1861 as a delegate, but had remained mostly silent beyond urging men not to engage in a “fratricidal war” among the states. That had changed with Britain’s entry into the war as the former navy man had come out sharply in favor of the war with Britain and then finally a major critic of the Treaty of Rotterdam, while actively campaigning for McClellan’s presidency. His stable business dealings, political capital in New Jersey, and connections in California had made him the man McClellan chose to head the Navy Department, and his political temperament was one which suited McClellan.
The Secretary of the Interior was another business associate and a former officer, George W. Cass. A West Point graduate, McClellan naturally trusted his judgment and abilities, but more importantly he trusted his sound business sense and knowledge of railroads. Cass and McClellan were men in agreement on the need to develop the nation, and especially of the project to bridge the continent by railroad. Cass, while a supporter of the Democratic Party, was not an especially political animal, something McClellan also found useful. The two men had worked together before and when approached, Cass had enthusiastically agreed to the position in the cabinet.
Finally the Attorney General was another McClellan loyalist, one of his chief organizers from the election, Samuel Cox. Although Cox strayed more toward the Copperhead faction of Democratic politics, he was also fervently loyal to the new president. Coming from Ohio, he also neatly rounded out the need to represent loyal McClellan states. With a good background as a lawyer, and a career in politicking, Cox was the man McClellan trusted with the Attorney General’s position to help him map out potentially thorny ground post war. Importantly, Cox was also a stringent critic of the war measures radicals pursued in the House. Those were battles McClellan knew he would be fighting for some time.
Rounding out the McClellan White House would be his two principle aides. His personal secretary was Seth Williams, formerly of McClellan’s staff, the two men had become friends in the army and Williams was liked by his wife. Known as “the nicest man in the army” McClellan had found he could rely on Williams to carry out the routine orders of the army and other necessary tasks, something which he deeply relied on. That made him the principle secretary, alongside various other men who would be employed as McClellan needed them. The second man was McClellan’s friend and ‘fixer’ Samuel Barlow. McClellan had come to rely on Barlow during the election, especially with regard to managing men and politicians McClellan did not want to deal with. As such, he quickly became a fixture of the McClellan White House, and often would be sent to parlay with men the President was thought to want to talk with without actually speaking to them.
It was with these men, largely appointed as McClellan saw fit, that he hoped to remake the nation…” - I Can Do It All: The Trials of George B. McClellan, Alfred White, 1992, Aurora Publishing
There's going to be some sort of WWI, and there will be an Entente, but I never say explicitly that they win, merely that they take on great economic sacrifices that perhaps the US could bear
Benjamin Butler's rise is pretty fun to see. I could totally see him making a run at the presidency in the future.
The personality difference between Lincoln and McLellan is striking, the dude is playing his cards very close to his chest.
Great chapter, dude.
The personality difference between Lincoln and McLellan is striking, the dude is playing his cards very close to his chest.
Great chapter, dude.
Rising Steel Warrior
Banned
Let's see if McClellan will negotiate for peace given what the U.S. has gone through in TTL's Civil War?
If he can ride the McClellan presidency to success, he has a very interesting political career ahead of him that's for sure! The man was a chameleon, changing political parties and opinions as it suited him. You could see him somehow moving back into Republican circles if things go south!
McClellan was always somewhat secretive, keeping plans and ideas close to the chest and not wanting to divulge too much. There is a political angle here too, he very much does not want to be seen as being guided by Lincoln (and especially Stanton) people who he has many fundamental strategic and political disagreements with. It isn't a stretch to say he hates the Radical Democracy Party and everything they represent, and he is now surrounded by people who are, if not overtly hostile, unconvinced by their efforts to win the war by abolitionist means.
That is up to disbanding units of Colored Volunteers.
As ever, thank you!
Apksmartgang
Banned
This timeline was recommended to me by someone with interest in this as well as the basic first. So what is the current state of this conflict.
Since most of McCellan's cabinet are indifferent to supportive of negotiating a peace where the confederate states remain separate, assassinating the president suddenly becomes very much a victory condition for the south. Especially if it is done by, or pinned on, the radical democrats.
Thank you! I've been less interested in his battle record for a while, and very interested in his potential as a president. There's stuff that can be gleaned and historical parallels which can be drawn, but he would be a fascinating figure in American presidential history. Not necessarily a good kind of fascinating, but certainly not fated to go down as a raging incompetent either.
One thing I can warn you that his term from 1865 on will increasingly make clear is that he is not a politician. For now make of that what you will
I don't see what killing McClellan would do. The current VP is a copperhead, but not many of the cabinet are. Killing the man you expect to make peace is a terrible move for anyone who wants to show they're acting in good faith!
The first acts of any peace negotiation are going to be unofficial diplomats too, and I have just the men in mind...