Robert Falcon Scott survives returning from the South Pole

[steel_captain]

I often wondered why Lawrence Oates decided to leave with the last support party turned back on the plateau when by then he had to know Scott was showing judgement lapses and making poor decisions for ultimate survival of the polar party by keeping Edgar Evans in it and adding Birdy Bowers?

Had Oates left with Edward Evans, Tom Crean and Bill Lashly, would the increase in rations available the returning polar party (Edgar Evans still dies OTL) been just enough for them to make it to One Ton Depot?

Of course, Scott became a mythical hero in his failure but what kind of public hero would he have become if he had survived to return to the UK

 

[vizzer]

Perhaps even becomes known as "Cannibal Scott" if they end up eating their companions to survive.

 

[steel_captain]

Scott would have never done that just to survive.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Of course, Scott became a mythical hero in his failure but what kind of public hero would he have become if he had survived to return to the UK

He becomes known as "the guy who lost us the race to the South Pole". His death was what made him a hero IOTL, but alive he's suddenly much more vulnerable to criticism and people are generally less interested in his story since there's no tragic narrative. Amundsen on the other hand gets to make the most of his reputation as the first to the pole instead of being overshadowed by the sensationalism regarding the loss of Scott's party.

 

[steel_captain]

I don't know if he becomes terribly diminished by surviving but rather the tale of the struggle becomes the narrative and Amundsen is even more diminished because it was so easy for his team to achieve the Pole and that they ate their own dogs. I see Britain at least making the claim that Scott deserves the prize even more because he suffered so much and the RGS backing that up just like the NGS gave the title to first to the North Pole to Peary even though his navigation records were faulty if not fraudulent.

 

[steel_captain]

Also it is worthy of noting that Scott's frostbitten feet were likely to require amputation upon return to make him the man who sacrificed his own body for the Glory of the Empire.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

I have no idea what the propaganda would be, but Scott's expedition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Nova_Expedition) did a good deal of scientific research. Admundsen was a great explorer but pretty much went straight for the pole. Earlier expeditions didn't even get to the pole, of course. Scott still reaches the pole and the expedition has other accomplishments, so without the same loss of life, I'm not sure if its seen as a failure.

 

[steel_captain]

I believe if Scott makes it back to England alive even without his feet he is showered as a monumental hero throughout the empire and given the title as being the first to reach the pole certainly within the UK and possibly in much of the rest of the world. Means will be found to discredit Amundsen's achievement...that in some way he cheated by using the methods he did even though no rules were written beforehand. That he raised money for a northern expedition but actually went south will be used to say he is a fraudulent man who used deceitful means so his claim as first to the pole is null and void.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Shackleton became a hero for a complete failure of a later expedition to Antarctica as he got his men back alive. I suspect Scott would receive similar kudos if he did the same.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

That he raised money for a northern expedition but actually went south will be used to say he is a fraudulent man who used deceitful means so his claim as first to the pole is null and void.

Can this argument really hold any sort of water in the face of the evidence that he reached the pole before anybody else?

 

[muddyleathers]

Shackleton is the ultimate hero for the journey in the small boats through the southern ocean. Any other criticisms pale in relation.

 

[ejpsan]

This should be a Research First, Then Post: but the real question is who informs the world that they reached the South Pole first.
If Scott gets the word out first, then he is the story even if he confirms that Amundsen got there first, and depending on how much sooner that Amundsen tells the world first that he got to the South Pole first, then he gets the credit.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Can this argument really hold any sort of water in the face of the evidence that he reached the pole before anybody else?

Some Brits tried arguing as much, though AFAIK it didn't catch on much and it took the news of the death of Scott and his companions to overshadow Amundsen's achievement. Even if some of the press tried getting aggressive about it, they'd be called out by their countrymen. IOTL Shackleton praised Amundsen and denied the claims he "cheated" or was otherwise dishonorable, Scott's widow likewise begrudgingly acknowledged his claim, and ITTL I imagine even Scott himself would admit to being beaten by Amundsen in the race. If nothing else denying it and trying to disparage Amundsen would make himself look bad.

Shackleton is the ultimate hero for the journey in the small boats through the southern ocean. Any other criticisms pale in relation.

Who's criticizing Shackleton? In any case, trying to compare the Endurance voyage to Terra Nova is misleading, it was chiefly an act of nature that left Shackleton and his crew trapped in the ice whereas the Terra Nova Expedition revealed poor planning and preparation on the part of the Brits even if Scott claimed it was the weather done him in.

This should be a Research First, Then Post: but the real question is who informs the world that they reached the South Pole first.
If Scott gets the word out first, then he is the story even if he confirms that Amundsen got there first, and depending on how much sooner that Amundsen tells the world first that he got to the South Pole first, then he gets the credit.

I don't see any plausible way Scott makes it back first unless we're talking about a radically different expedition that's not alluded to in the OP. Assuming some better decisions keep them, or at least most of them, alive enough to limp back to One Ton Depot and eventually the base camp they're still going to be lagging well behind Amundsen who'll probably be in Hobart sending a telegram by the time Scott is rescued.

 

[steel_captain]

My premise is that had Lawrence Oates decided not to remain with the polar party and otherwise if everything is as IOTL then Scott, Wilson and Bowers may have made it to One Ton Depot and thus lived. By that date, I believe the Norwegians had already sailed from the Bay of Whales.

What I conject is that with Scott alive the RGS would have done everything they could to discredit Amundsen by labelling him a scoundrel and themselves giving credit to Scott for the prize just like the World Olympic Committee strips athletes of the medals they earn for trivial traces of some banned substance.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

What I conjecture is that with Scott alive the RGS would have done everything they could to discredit Amundsen as a scoundrel and themselves credited Scott with the claim just like the World Olympic Committee strips athletes of the medals they earn for trivial traces of some banned substance.

What are they going to do - claim that Amundsen's photographs of himself at the pole are fake and deny the existence of all the markers he left there for Scott?

 

[steel_captain]

Like I said, not say he didn't make it there first but to disqualify him and with their economic power to get other nations to go along.

 

[JasTysoe]

Who's criticizing Shackleton? In any case, trying to compare the Endurance voyage to Terra Nova is misleading, it was chiefly an act of nature that left Shackleton and his crew trapped in the ice whereas the Terra Nova Expedition revealed poor planning and preparation on the part of the Brits even if Scott claimed it was the weather done him in.

I don't see any plausible way Scott makes it back first unless we're talking about a radically different expedition that's not alluded to in the OP. Assuming some better decisions keep them, or at least most of them, alive enough to limp back to One Ton Depot and eventually the base camp they're still going to be lagging well behind Amundsen who'll probably be in Hobart sending a telegram by the time Scott is rescued.

A lot of the criticism of Scott seems to come from Huntford, who appears to be extremely bigoted against Scott. I wasn't aware of the debunking of Huntford's claims when I first read the book, but Huntford's bias became obvious when, for example, he presented Katherine Scott's desire to make Scott's son "extraordinary" as if it showed Katherine to be a vacuous megolamaniac or something similar. Scott's son DID turn out to be "extraordinary" - he became founder of the World Wildlife Fund, a TV personality, running a world sporting body, winning an Olympic medal, an author, a successful artist, and won a DSC and Bar. Huntford didn't mention that Peter Scott DID turn out to be extraordinary - he just wrote as if Katherline was an airhead. That shows a level of unprofessional bias that is reflected elsewhere and shows that the Huntford book cannot be trusted.

More modern works on the weather patterns of the time and the book by Fiennes - the only author who understands the realities of polar life - show that Scott wasn't as incompetent as made out, and that it WAS the weather that largely done him in.

 

[JasTysoe]

Like I said, not say he didn't make it there first but to disqualify him and with their economic power to get other nations to go along.

Oh those evil Britons!

Do you have any actual evidence that there was an significant attempt to downplay Amundsen as you claim, or that there would have been? Or is this just a chance to make derogatory remarks about people in another time and place?

 

[JasTysoe]

My premise is that had Lawrence Oates decided not to remain with the polar party and otherwise if everything is as IOTL then Scott, Wilson and Bowers may have made it to One Ton Depot and thus lived. By that date, I believe the Norwegians had already sailed from the Bay of Whales.

What I conject is that with Scott alive the RGS would have done everything they could to discredit Amundsen by labelling him a scoundrel and themselves giving credit to Scott for the prize just like the World Olympic Committee strips athletes of the medals they earn for trivial traces of some banned substance.

Where is your evidence for this attack on people alive and dead?

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Like I said, not say he didn't make it there first but to disqualify him and with their economic power to get other nations to go along.

They don't have that sort of power, by the time news got back of Scott's death (or his survival ITTL) everyone had already acknowledged Amundsen's achievement and I can't imagine the British scientific and exploration communities going along with that sort of insanity when they showed Amundsen no such animosity IOTL, let alone those of the rest of the world. I can't see Scott himself going along with it either. Sure he expressed bitter disappointment at being beaten to the pole (and it shows on his face in his photographs there) but he still acknowledged it and was carrying Amundsen's letters to the King of Norway that he requested be delivered if he somehow made it home first which hardly signals any willingness to engage in an ungentlemanly fight and coverup betraying the spirit of the scientific endeavor he embarked upon.