Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond

[naraht]

The post-war assessments are going to be interesting. Every side is going to have something to learn. Britain will, for her part, feel smug in her naval superiority, but her army will have for the third time in less than a decade been almost emptied from the Home Islands and the Colonies in order to respond to a major war, while needed to raise many new regiments. It's not exactly a sustainable or economic model overall!

The United States will have learned that a great big army means nothing if you can't supply it! The hammering they've taken from modern rifles and artillery is also going to cause some serious reconsideration of army doctrine and training. Their semi-complacency around naval matters (and TBH relative inexperience) is going to show. The question will be whether they need a battlefleet like the European naval powers, or should they invest in more ocean going ironclads which can show their strength both abroad and at home. There will be a lot of debate post-war in naval matters, but this was an era of transition for the world's navies so there's plenty of room for debate...

Canada has learned that Britain will indeed defend them, but whether that kind of dependency is a good or bad thing remains to be seen...

Third time? Crimea and ?

It still blows my mind that iOTL that the US Military dropped so much in size between the end of the US Civil War to the 1890s. Unless things get *really* sunny between the US and UK/Canada, I just can't see it dropping as much.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Third time? Crimea and ?

The Mutiny in 1857. That was essentially a crash mobilization of everyone to go stamp it out, right after the Crimean War.

It still blows my mind that iOTL that the US Military dropped so much in size between the end of the US Civil War to the 1890s. Unless things get *really* sunny between the US and UK/Canada, I just can't see it dropping as much.

The dwindling of a force at 600,000 in strength in 1865 to a force of barely 25,000 in 1875 is simply amazing to think about. Though let's just say that the army will not dwindle quite so much by 1866, but it may not top out at 100,000. Well, not yet...

 

[HMS St.Lawrence]

Canada has learned that Britain will indeed defend them, but whether that kind of dependency is a good or bad thing remains to be seen...

Very good point right there.
Looking at it from London's point of view, a less dependent Dominion could also be a good thing. I believe Britain wouldn't mind if Canada was more a partner and less a burden for the defence of the Empire.

The potential is there, let's see if it is exploited.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 85: Like a Mighty Fortress​

“This subject, which now absorbs the attention of the people of Canada, and of the whole of British North America, is not a new one. For years it has more or less attracted the attention of every statesman and politician in these provinces, and has been looked upon by many far-seeing politicians as being eventually the means of deciding and settling very many of the vexed questions which have retarded the prosperity of the colonies as a whole, and particularly the prosperity of Canada.” - John A. Macdonald before the Canadian Legislature, 1865

“The Quebec Conference began just as the cease fire was announced on April 16th. This, understandably, buoyed the spirits of many, with a cautious optimism in the air. Macdonald and Tache were the only notable exceptions to this attitude. However, Macdonald would use it as a way to drive home the urgency of the negotiations which they were undertaking, combining the charm offensive he had utilized at Halifax with the now dire warnings of future American assaults on Britain’s North American possessions. Even with this however, the Great Coalition would be in peril…

It was a nearly similar delegation to that which had gathered in Halifax six months prior, but with a larger number of delegates from each prospective member of this new Canadian union. The major delegates retained their original heads, with John A. Macdonald and George Cartier leading the combined Canadian delegation, which now included Étienne-Paschal Taché as well as Thomas D'Arcy McGee, William McDougall and James Cockburn.

The Maritime delegations had expanded, including luminaries and observers from the various colonies. Newfoundland had doubled their commitment with two representatives, Ambrose Shea and Frederick Carter.Prince Edward Island’s delegation remained virtually unchanged, as did that from New Brunswick. It was the Nova Scotians who had increased their ranks, and were notable for one major absence. Joseph Howe, the man who arguably was the greatest leader in the colony, was absent in London and then Rotterdam representing the Maritimes at the negotiations with the Americans, and his absence cast a long shadow. In his place, Howe had sent fellow politician and provincial shipbuilding magnate William D. Lawrence, who would communicate the wishes of the premier Nova Scotian.

In total there were 33 delegates. Each was given sets of calling cards, with the names and photo identification so everyone was clear with names and where certain people represented. This ensured that the various members of each delegation, who other than those who were at Halifax were unknown to one another, could see where the various members of each delegation stood. In many ways, it was the first real mixing of ‘Canadians’ that had taken place in British North America. This would provide considerable clarity over the next fourteen days. The delegates all gathered at the old Legislative Building of Quebec, now consigned to be a mere provincial legislature when the government moved inevitably (and unwillingly) to Ottawa.

The Quebec Legislative Buildings, 1860​

Usual pleasantries were exchanged, and a great celebration was hosted by Monck and his wife, congratulating the men on their hard work in making the conference happen and toasting all the brave men who had fought under the Union Jack for their freedom. Many in the crowd wore black armbands for lost brothers and sons, which gave the meeting a sense of urgency. The presence of Volunteers and British soldiers reminded all of what could happen in a few months' time should the worst fears of all present play out.

The first day of business was a surprise to no one, and was, for all purposes, comparing notes. As promised each delegation had written one another and spoken over the most important proposals. The earliest friction came between the New Brunswick and Nova Scotian delegations over the Intercolonial Railroad. Currently, the project that saw the greatest drive for completion was the Saint Andrews and Quebec Railroad which, should it’s current construction tempo remain unaltered, was projected to be completed by 1865 at the latest. This would change many of the trade relations in the province where currently much of the international trade flowed overland to the US at Portland, a Canadian terminus at Saint Andrews would cause a drastic change.

It was the Haligoneans who complained most bitterly about this. Saint Andrews was barely a city of 3,000 people (this had, thanks to the war, more than doubled to above 7,000) whereas Halifax, not so much smaller than Quebec, had a far superior port and was the depot of the Royal Navy. No mere ‘fishing post’ could compete. It did not make sense then, the Nova Scotians argued, that any railroad connecting Quebec to the sea should lead anywhere but Halifax. While they never outright stated they would like to see the smaller railroad shutdown, they did little to imply otherwise. Lawrence read a long letter from Howe who argued eloquently for the importance of Nova Scotian industry and the importance of Halifax in particular. The New Brunswick delegation shot back that the exigencies of war, and the tyranny of distance, merely meant that their project would be completed first. It would only be natural then, for a longer railroad connecting to Halifax to be constructed afterwards. This railroad debate would take up two days of discussion, with little PEI also insisting it had a right to be compensated for the costs of a railroad connecting all the communities of the island…

More generally however, the accords reached at Halifax carried plenty of weight. The agreement that a central government would have a monopoly on taxation and revenue generation at the national level, and would then agree to pay a subsidy to the provinces based on that taxation was readily adopted. The declaration that a national government would take over all the provinces debts too was unanimously taken up by the delegates. The general split of federal and provincial powers was, although vague, agreed upon in principle by all delegations. A new unified national government was seen as infinitely desirable by all parties…

The debate regarding what nature this ‘unified government’ would take up was the most contentious. Macdonald and Cartier passionately argued that a two house legislature should be established. This, they said, would be more comparable to the British Parliament and the House of Lords than something as ‘unwieldy’ as the American Senate. The two house government did not prove to be a problem, but the composition and nature of those two houses would provide the most means of debate.

The Canadians stated that the Parliament should be represented by population for each of the British colonies. Under this system there would be 82 seats for Canada West, 65 for Canada East, 19 for Nova Scotia, 15 for New Brunswick, and 5 for Prince Edward Island. Newfoundland, would also be allocated 7 should they choose to join. This, naturally, made the Maritime delegates nervous. Under the current allocation of seats the larger and more centrally populated Canadian provinces could simply swamp the Maritime delegates. Both Cartier and Macdonald worked overtime to extinguish this fear. What could possibly cause Upper and Lower Canada to work together? They were hopelessly deadlocked as it was! They heaped assurances on the Maritimes that no such thing could happen.

The Prince Edward Island delegation was especially nervous about this. They protested vigorously, insisting that they had not agreed to ‘rep by pop’ at Halifax and that, indeed to their minds, nothing had been settled at Halifax. This earned the ire of George Brown who insisted that it had indeed been well established at Halifax and in all the discussions in between and that ‘everybody knows rep by pop was the basis of a Lower House,’ and said that the best the little island might get was a sixth seat. It was eminently reasonable he said as Newfoundland was being promised an eighth depending on how its next census played out.

It was as these fears were realized that Macdonald released what he thought was his master stroke. The Upper House would have equal representation for all regions, but importantly not provinces. There would be 24 from each region (24 each for Canada West and Canada East with 10 for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and 4 for Prince Edward Island, with Newfoundland to receive another 4). This did little to ease the minds of the Prince Edward Islanders, already wary of simply being swamped by their larger Maritime cousins.

On the sixth day of the conference, as these talks deepened, they proposed something radical. They called for members of this Upper House to be elected in equal numbers for each province so that no one province or region could dominate the others, as they noted that once again Canada West and Canada East combined would outweigh the Maritimes by a considerable margin. This furthered a healthy debate again as the many factions considered.

Macdonald, oddly enough, found the proposal to be splitting the Canada East delegation, who wished for better representation to protect their culture and language rights. The Nova Scotian delegates were also divided. Many of them considered electing an Upper House insane in light of the events in the United States, while Macdonald found an ally in the person of Charles Tupper who helped steer many of the Maritime delegates away from the idea of election…” – The Road to Confederation, 1863 – 1869 the Formative Years, Queens University Press, Donald Simmonds

“Though this seemed to defuse the crisis, it would once again come down to PEI to put a penny on the tracks and derail proceedings. Even if the provinces were to accept this idea, Edward Palmer asked, who would appoint these men to the Upper House?

In what many historians have considered a moment of carelessness, Macdonald answered “Why the leader of this new nation of course!” Which in retrospect was ill spoken. It cause storms of outrage from the Prince Edward Island delegation, and worryingly enough, the Canada East delegation. By all accounts Macdonald was genuinely surprised by this. He seems to have believed his arguments for a strong central government were final, and that the position of Prime Minister was to be sacrosanct in helping lead the nation.

Edward Palmer of PEI would twice nearly derail the Quebec Conference ​

Privately, the Great Coalition would reach its greatest crisis point as once again Macdonald and Brown got into a heated argument. George Brown knew precisely who Macdonald had in mind to appoint these men, and he would not stand for it. Though they managed to keep their private arguments largely quiet, he and Cartier faced a problem that some of his own fellows doubted the plan. Macdonald assured him that this could easily be smoothed over.

On the ninth day of the conference the proposed plans for an appointed Senate were spelled out in the Montreal newspapers of Minerve and Le Pays.

Until then the meetings and debates of the Conference had largely been invisible to the public. With the war dying down, the campaigns in the United States promising to start again, and many wondering what peace would bring, the unity of the Canadian provinces as one institution had escaped much popular notice. In previous press releases Macdonald and Cartier had carefully crafted the debates and arguments to be agreeable to all, and were worded as though much had already been agreed upon. The news then, especially in more radical newspapers, that the government might be “appointed by an English majority to the French peoples over whom we have no say” as Le Pays put it, caused a firestorm of controversy in Quebec and Montreal.

For Macdonald this was an existential crisis. His delegates from Canada East would face criticism and controversy, and for the first time curious onlookers besieged the gates of the Legislature trying to see what was happening. It was only on the 27th of April that he, somewhat desperately declared the measure would be put for debate on how to apportion the Upper House, and the manner of their selection would be put to a vote by the delegations. Rapidly sending a letter to that effect to all the newspapers he could, the matter seemed to be resolved to the public’s content by the 30th of April…

Who leaked the deliberations to the press has long been a source of contention. There was some speculation that a member of the delegation was secretly still sympathetic to the old rogues and sought to muddy the waters of Confederation. Others have blamed Brown who quite clearly, and viciously disagreed with the proposed system. Some have even said it was McGee, who despite now being a staunch advocate and ally of Macdonald, still had old democratic tendencies. Whoever the culprit, their plan had the unintended side effect of extending the meetings by a further week…” – Nation Maker: The Life of John A. Macdonald, Richard Chartrand, Queens University Publishing, 2005

“By far the nature of the Upper House caused the most controversy. While the Canadians managed to retain half of their delegation on their side, including Nova Scotia, the Maritimes under PEI, New Brunswick, the Newfoundlanders and the more quarrelsome members from Canada West and East saw it differently. The ‘Prince Edward Island Proposal’ as it became known eventually boiled down to two points:

1. The appointment of legislators to this Upper House was acceptable
2. There will be an equal number of legislators in this Upper House for all provinces

The final matter of course was who would end up appointing these men. In the final round of discussions the choice would be one strenuously opposed by Macdonald, but it was determined that each Province would get 10 representatives, and those representatives would be appointed by the Provincial government. Put to a vote, the proposal was accepted 19 to 14 by the delegates present.

It was the largest concession Macdonald would make. He still, however, had ideas on how to organize these movements in a way that might give him an advantage over quarrelsome provincial governments, whose nature was still ambiguous. The last week of the conference would be dedicated to wrangling out just such particularities, with Macdonald doing his best to weaken the provinces at the expense of the central government…

The final decisions put the central government in Ottawa, while the provincial governments would have its own legislature and the power of government was divided up between the federal and provincial governments. Measures for letting the various other provinces from British Columbia to Rupert’s Land were added. However, serious issues were left out. Explicit protections for the rights and culture of French Canadians were not laid out, with the majority successfully arguing that Quebec’s power in Parliament and her appointed Upper House members would be her protection. While French was legally required to be spoken in the Parliament, this did not keep it safe in provincial legislatures. The issue of the Indigenous peoples was also not addressed, and indeed never discussed beyond the management of existing responsibilities in the various provinces. It was, overall, a flawed compromise waiting on a final ratification.

Overall, the delegates adopted 72 resolutions, 47 of which were crafted by John A. Macdonald. He was one of the few delegates with legal and constitutional theory at easy grasp. “As it is, I have no help,” Macdonald quipped to Sir James Gowan. “Not one man of the conference (except Galt in financial matters) has the slightest idea of constitution making. Whatever is good or ill in the Constitution is mine.” As such, Macdonald stamped his mark deeply on the laws that would form the new dominion, and his persuasion had, despite a significant setback, seen him reach an unchallenged level of control over the process.

Attuned to the potential difficulties of doing so in Canada, Macdonald called for it to be done patriotically at the heart of Empire in London in just over a year’s time so that the individual legislatures could ratify the resolutions laid down at Quebec. This conveniently far away from the prying eyes of a Canadian press…” – The Road to Confederation, 1863 – 1869 the Formative Years, Queens University Press, Donald Simmonds

An idealized image of the Quebec Conference produced in 1868​

 

[EnglishCanuck]

I am in fact immensely glad that despite my hiatus no one commented and I could get this in under post #1864!

Chapter 86 incoming next week!

 

[Radek]

So soon? Looking forward to it in that case.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

So soon? Looking forward to it in that case.

The next chapter was 99% complete before this one was, so all I have to do is make sure I'm putting the right generals in the OOB and then it's off to the races.

 

[kham_coc]

I am in fact immensely glad that despite my hiatus no one commented and I could get this in under post #1864!

Chapter 86 incoming next week!

Lovely, my first comment in this thread, but a very good TL.

 

[The Gunslinger]

The change in the senate is a shockingly powerful move to the provinces compared to OTL. The shortsightedness of the Maritime provinces in giving all of the senate authority to the PM still blows me away and I can't fathom how they thought to come out ahead in the long run. I could realistically see Alberta and Saskatchewan not being split in the future to curb western power in the senate later too. It'll be neat to see what British Columbia thinks of all this.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

The change in the senate is a shockingly powerful move to the provinces compared to OTL. The shortsightedness of the Maritime provinces in giving all of the senate authority to the PM still blows me away and I can't fathom how they thought to come out ahead in the long run. I could realistically see Alberta and Manitoba not being split in the future to curb western power in the senate later too. It'll be neat to see what British Columbia thinks of all this.

So far as I understand it, the Canadian delegation essentially played it off as "it could be you in the chair one day" which was a big factor in the decision. That and the fact they essentially agreed to equal representation by region rather than by province effectively gutted their power at the legislative level. This was the biggest change off the bat I could think of, especially as it was one of the things which required the most debate during the OTL Conference. How close PEI's historic ideas were to the Triple E proposals of the 1990s are mind blowing, so I figured some sort of change could probably be hammered out at the table, especially in a TL where George Brown has not yet married and mellowed out. I think that he'd find the idea of Macdonald essentially appointing an entire upper house far too much to stomach.

The West will be a big issue in the 1870s for Canada for a number of different reasons!

 

[DAv]

A good amount of detail into what's going on in Canada alright. Having the nation being brought together like this is an interesting approach and it seems that Macdonald was quite an interesting character.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

A food amount of detail into what's going on in Canada alright. Having the nation being brought together like this is an interesting approach and it seems that Macdonald was quite an interesting character.

He was that. Witty, clever, and scheming to a fault he was probably the reason Confederation succeeded. He was helped by others of course (the superb team of Cartier, Tache, Galt, and Brown, and the alliance he formed with Tupper) but he could build a team and was a very canny politician. Quite honestly, one scandal aside, he probably would have run the country uninterrupted OTL from 1867 to the day he died.

Much of what I'm outlining is similar to how the OTL debates on Canadian Confederation went down, with a few minor and then a single major deviation in how the Canadian system will work. The way that will effect the Canadian system going forward will be... interesting to say the least. Canada will be having more interesting times TTL and the 1860s aren't even done yet.

Though I guess I ought to get around to ending the war first...

 

[naraht]

So far as I understand it, the Canadian delegation essentially played it off as "it could be you in the chair one day" which was a big factor in the decision. That and the fact they essentially agreed to equal representation by region rather than by province effectively gutted their power at the legislative level. This was the biggest change off the bat I could think of, especially as it was one of the things which required the most debate during the OTL Conference. How close PEI's historic ideas were to the Triple E proposals of the 1990s are mind blowing, so I figured some sort of change could probably be hammered out at the table, especially in a TL where George Brown has not yet married and mellowed out. I think that he'd find the idea of Macdonald essentially appointing an entire upper house far too much to stomach.

The West will be a big issue in the 1870s for Canada for a number of different reasons!

The Shape of the Canadian west might even be different than OTL...

 

[naraht]

He was that. Witty, clever, and scheming to a fault he was probably the reason Confederation succeeded. He was helped by others of course (the superb team of Cartier, Tache, Galt, and Brown, and the alliance he formed with Tupper) but he could build a team and was a very canny politician. Quite honestly, one scandal aside, he probably would have run the country uninterrupted OTL from 1867 to the day he died.

Much of what I'm outlining is similar to how the OTL debates on Canadian Confederation went down, with a few minor and then a single major deviation in how the Canadian system will work. The way that will effect the Canadian system going forward will be... interesting to say the least. Canada will be having more interesting times TTL and the 1860s aren't even done yet.

Though I guess I ought to get around to ending the war first...

Waiting for the McDonald dies early TL with the fragmentation of Canada...

 

[EnglishCanuck]

The Shape of the Canadian west might even be different than OTL...

Oh it will certainly look different I can tell you that...

Waiting for the McDonald dies early TL with the fragmentation of Canada...

It would be a different sort of British North America. The Maritime Union was probably going to happen either way, but how the United Province of Canada would turn out would be a very interesting question indeed!

 

[naraht]

Oh it will certainly look different I can tell you that...



It would be a different sort of British North America. The Maritime Union was probably going to happen either way, but how the United Province of Canada would turn out would be a very interesting question indeed!

Tacoma, British Columbia.

 

[HMS St.Lawrence]

Wow! Did not expected that twist in the Confederation, now you got me completely hooked for the next chapter of Canadian politics!
As if I wasn't already

Keep it up English Canuck! Seriously, this is excellent

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Wow! Did not expected that twist in the Confederation, now you got me completely hooked for the next chapter of Canadian politics!
As if I wasn't already

Keep it up English Canuck! Seriously, this is excellent

Glad you're enjoying! I was hoping the twist would work, and I really hope to showcase how it ends up changing Canadian politics in both the mid and long term across the 19th century! There's plenty that might get wonky with Ottawa now having some serious issues with how the Senate gets set up.

 

[Icedaemon]

Interesting to see this different confederation. I cannot help but wonder if at some point the constitution is radically altered - Quebec being counted separately from Canada East for one - even if they are not as separatist as OTL, I do think that they would insist on being their own province at the highest levels of government.

Incidentally, with Canada getting unified amidst war, I am surprised that noone suggested that membership of the upper house be perhaps limited to retired officers or the like, with the possibility of extending it to retired officers and civil servants down the line. At least in my conception thereof, the main purpose of an upper house should be to ensure that the elected representatives don't get too focused on short-term gains to fit their election promises and popularity to ensure personal reelection at the expense of causing long-term harm.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Interesting to see this different confederation. I cannot help but wonder if at some point the constitution is radically altered - Quebec being counted separately from Canada East for one - even if they are not as separatist as OTL, I do think that they would insist on being their own province at the highest levels of government.

And the members aren't even settled yet! Historically, PEI and Newfoundland walked after Quebec, which was a major blow to the agenda (though Newfoundland had only expressed marginal interest overall, and despite the delegates being interested, they failed to sell it to the public back home). With Canada East (not called Quebec proper until Confederation) there's more a desire for local autonomy over the French language and Catholic Church. That said, it's largely a hope that they can govern their own affairs as a more autonomous province within a greater Confederation. So far, they just landed some spectacular ammunition with how the future Senate is likely to be set up. Though without everything codified Macdonald is planning on attempting to neuter them just a little bit.

One thing I should note is that many of the OTL 72 Resolutions are, aside from the Senate, almost exactly the same.

Incidentally, with Canada getting unified amidst war, I am surprised that noone suggested that membership of the upper house be perhaps limited to retired officers or the like, with the possibility of extending it to retired officers and civil servants down the line. At least in my conception thereof, the main purpose of an upper house should be to ensure that the elected representatives don't get too focused on short-term gains to fit their election promises and popularity to ensure personal reelection at the expense of causing long-term harm.

The 72 Resolutions did specify that it will be "men of means" who join this upper house. It's still blatantly undemocratic, and meant to ensure that there's no "rule by mob" but not quite in a way so insidious as the US Electoral College, instead "merely" a way to ensure that one of the lawmaking bodies answers ultimately to the major political leaders of each province.

Though I should be quick to note that while Senators were appointed for life by the PM historically, here the term of service and exactly what circumstances a provincial premier appoints a Senator are still a bit unfinished. Wonder what kind of problems that could create...