Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond

[Nenshou Yuuki]

Also true! The US came dangerously close to doing so more than once, the Civil War merely being a prime example of how there was an unstable political balance that knocked the US on its heels between 1861 and (arguably) 1876 forcing it to focus inwards and see quite a bit of political dysfunction despite the moral triumph of freeing the slaves and building the transcontinental-railroad.

The bitter feelings of a lost civil war (or even an uneven treaty) can have some less than salutary effects on a nation. There's a reason that in WiF the post-war period is known as "The Era of Hard Feelings" as opposed to the post 1815 "Era of Good Feelings" which defined the lead up to the sectional crisis.

Honestly I just sometimes feel this need to counter this idea that the US no matter how banged up it gets or how much territory it loses will always be this big strong nation that'll settle the score down the line. It's entirely possible that if McClennan surrenders that he's unable to effectively repair the nation and leaves the presidency with the nation barely recovering and a mess of a political landscape for the next guy to try and fix up.

A worse possibility is an embittered Union soldier catches him in the wrong place and the wrong time and assassinates him leaving the nation completely rudderless in the wake of this disastrous war.

America certainly has it's share of little Napoleon's who are willing to use that kind of chaos to advance themselves and their power and prestige at the cost of their nation.

 

[DarkAvenger]

I agree. There would likely be some authoritarian figures coming along in the Era of Hard Feelings who would take the US down the road to being a more authoritarian nation that betrayed the spirit of the laws and ideals it was founded on. I don't think the US will reabsorb the Confederacy; stories like Cinco de Mayo and it's sequel demonstrated this. But looking at the first post which had the US be a powerhouse come the 20th century, it means the nation would rebound somewhere in the late 19th century and become another great power. That would have some effects on Canada, Mexico and the CSA who might form an alliance to contain the US under the guise of defending freedom and liberty from US tyranny or something like that. I don't think the US will be involved in the Great War but it will be involved in some kind of conflict. But speculating the future of this story is pointless. It's the author's story and we are here to enjoy his excellent prose and how he writes this story.

Also regarding McClellan, the author states he is going to be neither the best nor worst President so he must have done something right in his Presidency. Or at least his friends in office did and he got the credit.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I agree. There would likely be some authoritarian figures coming along in the Era of Hard Feelings who would take the US down the road to being a more authoritarian nation that betrayed the spirit of the laws and ideals it was founded on. I don't think the US will reabsorb the Confederacy; stories like Cinco de Mayo and it's sequel demonstrated this. But looking at the first post which had the US be a powerhouse come the 20th century, it means the nation would rebound somewhere in the late 19th century and become another great power. That would have some effects on Canada, Mexico and the CSA who might form an alliance to contain the US under the guise of defending freedom and liberty from US tyranny or something like that. I don't think the US will be involved in the Great War but it will be involved in some kind of conflict. But speculating the future of this story is pointless. It's the author's story and we are here to enjoy his excellent prose and how he writes this story.

I generally agree with this sentiment, although it's unlikely the war will end like OTL given who's in office, the Union is still in a advantage and McClean doesn't have enough control of the state or willingness from Dixie to get a peace deal, so we'll see how the author will develop that.

I do think that a Canadian-Mexican alliance is likely, especially a Mexico that keeps Maximilian around as they would have a interest in resisting American influence both military and economic to develop their own country and influence.


The Great War will most likely be viewed in the same way WW1 was seen for a majority of the American public from OTL: An European affair to be settled by Europeans but that gives a opportunity to make loads of cash by selling weapons and other materials to both side, while some old guards might wish to "avenge the defeat of 1863" most of the public would've forgotten about that or at least have not lived through it, so while sympathy would certainly be to whoever is opposing Britain(Russia from what the author has said) and they would get a bigger line of credit than the Brits, no one would be willing to throw their boys to die in Europe. Not unless something like the Lusitania incident and Zimmerman Telegram happen that is...

Also regarding McClellan, the author states he is going to be neither the best nor worst President so he must have done something right in his Presidency. Or at least his friends in office did and he got the credit.

Tbh, that's not exactly a high bar to set given Andrew Johnson who could've succeeded him and we saw OTL how well he turned out. But hey, better to be an Rutherford Hayes than a James Buchanan

 

[MonarchistCanuck]

Stranger things could happen

The relations between Russia and Great Britain are not great circa 1865 here, and they're destined to keep deteriorating over the 1860s for reasons I'll be exploring in the not too distant future as I wrap up 1865 and get into 1866.

Hmm, so we're looking at a more intense Great Game? Are we going to see butterflies in Afghanistan? Perhaps a certain veteran of the War of 1862 taking command instead of Elphinstone?

 

[DarkAvenger]

Tbh, that's not exactly a high bar to set given Andrew Johnson who could've succeeded him and we saw OTL how well he turned out. But hey, better to be an Rutherford Hayes than a James Buchanan

Yeah, I agree that it's not a high bar but at least McClellan can point out he did his best. I don't know who would come after McClellan but he would have his work cut out for him.

Thinking about the knock-on effects of the war, would the US here become an authoritarian nation that no longer resembles the democracy it was supposed to be? Losing the war would bring about intense political and societal dysfunction and while Lincoln would push the Emancipation Proclamation into 1872 and that is a moral triumph, that is no small comfort for a broken nation. I envision that life in the US will become harder, more regulated, and eventually more authoritarian because of a besieged mentality. And the CSA can point at themselves as being the true heirs of democracy and liberty while still keeping slaves, ironically enough.

Another thing I was wondering is what the effect of Britain at war with the US would have on the rest of the world. We saw that war broke out in Europe that would affect German unification and France had its adventures in Mexico and would possibly expand into other parts of the Americas now that the US is weakened. Would this mean that Britain would not be able to throw its weight around Europe as much as it likes going down the decades, as well as in Asia and Africa? I mean, Cinco de Mayo kind of explored that, but I am unsure if something similar would happen here. The war showed that Britain could be distracted enough to allow other nations to advance their agendas, and that might have consequences that led to the Great War ITTL.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Another thing I was wondering is what the effect of Britain at war with the US would have on the rest of the world. We saw that war broke out in Europe that would affect German unification and France had its adventures in Mexico and would possibly expand into other parts of the Americas now that the US is weakened. Would this mean that Britain would not be able to throw its weight around Europe as much as it likes going down the decades, as well as in Asia and Africa? I mean, Cinco de Mayo kind of explored that, but I am unsure if something similar would happen here. The war showed that Britain could be distracted enough to allow other nations to advance their agendas, and that might have consequences that led to the Great War ITTL.

Britain can be distracted, but it also shows that Britain can (and will) throw its weight around if it wants too. They've now now seen two major wars in under fifteen years. So while you might be able to advance interests while she's distracted, you probably don't want to be on her bad side.

 

[SWS]

I am very much intrigued by the "New Men" and their plans for U.S. Government. Can Henry and Brooks Adams really achieve praxis for their ideas, which were confined to the wilderness IOTL?

 

[DarkAvenger]

Britain can be distracted, but it also shows that Britain can (and will) throw its weight around if it wants too. They've now now seen two major wars in under fifteen years. So while you might be able to advance interests while she's distracted, you probably don't want to be on her bad side.

That's also pretty obvious as Britain is the most powerful empire at this time. I was thinking along the lines of other nations advancing their agendas when Britain is distracted by something else but also not to the point of appearing antagonistic. Like a more powerful France acting as a counter to British interests in Europe, Africa and Asia.

I'm not very well-versed in European history but my impression is that with the Great American War, France can make certain advancements it might not have done IOTL that could become detrimental to Britain.

 

[MonarchistCanuck]

I am very much intrigued by the "New Men" and their plans for U.S. Government. Can Henry and Brooks Adams really achieve praxis for their ideas, which were confined to the wilderness IOTL?

Henry maybe, he was a virulent anglophobe, Brooks though? I'm not so sure, he wasn't an anglophobe like his brother OTL and was an advocate of Anglo-Saxonism that included the UK (while his brother wanted the British wiped off the face of the earth, ITTL Henry's views will only be solidified further). Maybe Brooks will advocate to let bygones-be-bygones so the Anglo-Saxons can focus on the Chinese menace?

Bare in mind my deep understanding of the brothers came from a quick Wikipedia search

 

[Meshakhad]

A few possibilities for Alaska:
1. Russia is forced to cede it after a war in the late 19th or early 20th century, probably to Canada.
2. Continuous American and British immigration but no sale leads to the uncomfortable situation of Alaska having a majority Anglophone Protestant population, leading not to Alaska's annexation by Canada or the US, but its independence.
3. (my favorite option) Japan takes it during the Russo-Japanese War

 

[TimTurner]

A few possibilities for Alaska:
1. Russia is forced to cede it after a war in the late 19th or early 20th century, probably to Canada.
2. Continuous American and British immigration but no sale leads to the uncomfortable situation of Alaska having a majority Anglophone Protestant population, leading not to Alaska's annexation by Canada or the US, but its independence.
3. (my favorite option) Japan takes it during the Russo-Japanese War

I've never seen 3 in a timeline before. Somehow...

 

[DarkAvenger]

I've never seen 3 in a timeline before. Somehow...

For no. 3 to happen, wouldn't that depend on there being a Russo-Japanese War ITTL?

 

[Icedaemon]

Finally, the Quebec Resolutions were agreed to, and the issue was passed to the Colonial Office, who duly signed off on the matter. It was then bunted to Parliament who, on July 5th 1865, Passed the British North America Act into law, merely waiting on royal assent. For all intents the Kingdom of Canada had been born[2]...

As the bill had not yet received assent, and would not go into force until Parliament’s next sitting in early 1866, the remainder of the delegates stay was made up with various royal tours and enjoying the London social life. Macdonald, alongside a delegation of other politicians and Canadian soldiers, would receive a knighthood[3]. In this they were fetted by the Prince of Wales at Buckingham Palace, dining with him in an audience of one hundred exclusive guests. “We were treated as if we were ambassadors and not mere Colonists,” Galt would write his wife gleefully.

I wonder how this effects future British overseas possessions. Them being kingdoms of their own once they have 'matured' enough to be almost independent, with Canada acting and being quite clearly seen as the second voice in the British Empire.

A few possibilities for Alaska:
1. Russia is forced to cede it after a war in the late 19th or early 20th century, probably to Canada.
2. Continuous American and British immigration but no sale leads to the uncomfortable situation of Alaska having a majority Anglophone Protestant population, leading not to Alaska's annexation by Canada or the US, but its independence.
3. (my favorite option) Japan takes it during the Russo-Japanese War

A combination of a large Anglophone community in Alaska and it being a Japanese possession would be quite interesting and probably lead to greater understanding on how the other group thinks at least within Japan itself. A Japan which holds Alaska after humiliating the russians (which is probable if the latter still hold Alaska by the time a conflict with Japan becomes an all out war and the tsar or his ministers are still stupid enough to try and send the most incompetent navy in the world to the other side of the world) and has a large white minority is both more likely to be treated as a peer earlier by the great powers and to worry more about remaining on good terms with at least either the British Empire or the USA.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 108: Napoleon and his Legions​

June 22nd, 1865
The White House, District of Columbia

Stifling heat gripped Washington. Every window in the Executive Mansion sat open, inviting legions of flies to settle on every surface. President George B. McClellan hardly minded. While campaigning in Virginia, or even enduring Lee’s siege of the city, he had experienced far worse. This was much more comfortable than a day in the saddle, or even a night spent in a fine tent supported by his staff. His dear Ellen was nearby as well. He could hardly ask for more in life.

And yet he had more. Sitting in the desk here he was cloaked in immense power as the President of the United States, sitting in the room a man who in his opinion had not been worthy of the office had occupied for far too long. Gone was the mess of papers, reports, books and half finished meals which had littered the room when Lincoln had occupied it. So too were the inevitable messes of the man’s annoying sons. How he had ever gotten anything done was a mystery to McClellan.

Now it looked like a proper headquarters. Everything was neatly placed, with reports from the armies stacked where he could see them at his leisure, the news from his cabinet secretaries in another stack, and personal correspondence from men of means in another, all well handled by Williams. As necessary he rotated more men onto his staff from the various departments, and two young lieutenants were doing double duty as messengers and clerks for him. Though only one of them stood by Williams today, the remainder were off on business not pertaining to the cabinet.

The cabinet was meeting now as, unfortunately, the needs of the war could not wait. Strangely, not much of a war was to be reported on. Instead, it was an interminable slog of requests for rations, horses, foodstuffs, and most of all money. The latter was stretched thin across the nation as he worked to scrape together the first indemnity payment to the British. Poor Astor was driving himself to sickness just picking up the pieces from Lincoln’s war. And unfortunately, he had to pay for a Fourth of July celebration to lift the mood of still partially ruined Washington. The unfinished Rotunda, with impacts from Confederate mortars still visible, hung as a stark reminder of the costs of the war in material and financial terms.

On the wall nearby, the lines of the conflict which had been frozen since the turn of the year reminded McClellan grimly of this fact.

“The government bonds are simply not doing as well as I hoped,” John Astor said, reading from a pile of economic reports. “I’m afraid sir that confidence in the government is not high.”

“One would expect that after four years of war, the people would know that the United States can triumph,” Benjamin Butler said peevishly.

McClellan regarded his Secretary of War with some distaste, but did not allow it to show on his face. He merely nodded with an agreement of that sentiment. Butler, he learned, had grown rich running a blockade running cartel through his brother Andrew at Boston. There had apparently been some… irregularities which were due to be investigated by Congress. His ascension to cabinet and all the political coverage that entailed had saved him from that. That made him loyal to McClellan. For now.

“The nation has had much asked of it,” McClellan agreed. “However, to win this war we are forced to ask yet more. I will not have us raising taxes however. I ran directly contrary to that in the election and will not go back on my word so easily.”

“Sir, if we do not, then we must raise tariffs. That was the main engine of government finance before the war, and that will make many uncomfortable. The prospect of Confederate raiders on the high seas has insurance rates still high. Many shipping cartels are complaining of the cost to move goods to Europe.”

“That’s hardly our concern,” McClellan scoffed. “Trade through British Canada has resumed, and we must make of that what we can. Though not free trade, we need the import duties. Trade will flow from Europe soon enough.”

“It will add to the balance sheet, but not enough.” Astor shook his head. “The government is deeply indebted now, and to continue the war we may be forced to seek foreign loans. We are already in debt at home, and I do dread what debt may do to us abroad.”

“Too much debt and we’ll go the way of Mexico,” Rodman Price said grimly.

“This nation has proven too powerful to go the way of Mexico,” McClellan said. The Treaty of Rotterdam had been a great embarrassment, but it could have been far worse he knew.

“But our power ebbs away daily,” Price said.

Much as McClellan did not want to agree with him, every report he’d read said that was true. Desertion had soared over the winter, and despite some commanders executing men daily, thousands of soldiers seemed to think the war was lost and were drifting home. When he had toured the Army of the Potomac he had seen similar surliness. The men did not cheer, and there seemed to be an unhappiness in the ranks. Clearly the army was depressed. There was little he could do except try and lift their spirits. If only the damn abolitionists did not pour poison in their ears at every chance turn. It was nonsense like that which made men believe that they had to fight a long war to the death, further entrenching Confederate resistance.

The navy was at least hopeful. Two new ironclads, the Roanoke had finally been relaunched after many delays, while the New Jersey had been launched as a broadside ironclad. Two further ships would be ready for service in a few months, the Erie and Sandy Hook would not be ready until August at the earliest he was told. That left the navy incredibly vulnerable to the Confederate ironclad squadrons. All of this, of course, cost more money. Rebuilding the navy yard at Portsmouth alone was going to be a fortune.

“All that said sir, we should fight if we wish to renew the nation’s morale,” Butler said. “Sitting in camps or trenches the army will grow lethargic.”

“And sending them out to die will only demoralize them more,” George Cass said. “We need no more Knoxvilles or Pipe Creeks.” Mentioning the two greatest defeats of the last year made McClellan wince internally, but he couldn’t show that weakness.

“Then send a larger army to South Carolina and be done with it,” Butler said. “Burning Charleston to the ground would send a message that we will not tolerate treason.”

“And then what do we do with the negroes who are already filling Southern and Northern hearts with fear?” Samuel Cox demanded. “We would hardly look as though we were negotiating for peace in good faith if we allowed negroes to burn their way across South Carolina.”

Mention of the black soldiers rankled McClellan. He didn’t agree with Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation at all. If he could rescind it he would, but it was a potent political weapon to be sure. A stick to hammer the South into a white peace. Though so far it hadn’t worked, he was loathe to do anything to make it look like he was an ally of the damned abolitionists. They hounded him in the newspapers and said he was an ally of slavers. Damnable men were more interested in making him look bad than winning the war!

“So much the worse for them. I won’t shed a tear if some plantation owner decides to be burnt alive in his mansion,” Butler said coldly. “I may not love the thought, but it was South Carolina that brought this misery to the nation, let them reap the bitter harvest.”

“If we did anything of the sort imagine what ruin France and Britain might rain on our heads,” Seymour shot back. “Already they fear that there will be a second Haiti or Cawnpore in Virginia if men like Charles Sumner get their way.”

“And quite so, I won’t have black troops committing outrages on the white population of the South,” McClellan said. “We will do nothing that might prompt more foreign interference in this contest.”

“Then you commit us to a long, grim fight for many more years,” Butler said. “I’m not sure the nation can abide it.”

“Which is why we must try peace first,” Seymour said sagely. “If the South won’t negotiate, then it is on their heads.”

“Quite so,” McClellan said. “I am fully prepared to endorse the outcome of this convention of the states, the loyal states outnumber the rebel states. Let the South see the unity of the cause behind them! The abolitionists be damned!" Briefly he had to fight to keep his irritation at the men like Charles Sumner and the newspaper men like Horace Greely who spouted drivel about him at every turn. He mastered it, and returned to more important business. "But, on a happier note gentlemen, let us discuss detaching some men for the Fourth of July parade. Nothing would lift the spirits of the population more than seeing the army marching unbeaten through the capital.”


United States Military Headquarters,
Louisville, Kentucky

Ulysses S. Grant saluted the negro sentry standing guard at the doorway to the Galt House Hotel. The man saluted with his rifle and Grant had to hide a grin. Maybe Frederick Douglas had a point when he said that negroes with rifles would be more soldierly the more confident they got in their freedom. Though he thought that Kentuckians had gotten much less friendly with so many armed black men about. The hotel was almost deserted save for military men. Even the street outside saw the civilians give the armed black soldiers a wide berth. Burbridge’s hangings had seen to that.

Ushered upstairs by a lieutenant who seemed too young for his uniform, or perhaps the clean uniform and fresh shaven face made him seem younger compared to the men in the field, Grant stepped into the office of the Commander of the West, Major General Charles F. Smith. The old soldier, and his old school master, had taken command back in 1863, and had done his best to ensure Grant had everything he could want.

Grant saluted, but Smith waved him to a seat.

“Sit down dammit Grant, this isn’t West Point. Drink?”

“Only one, I’m not on duty but don’t want anyone thinking I’m out drinking like a cadet sneaking into Benny Haven’s saloon,” Grant said, taking the proffered whiskey. Smith snorted at an old joke. His schoolmaster appearance hadn't changed since Grant had been his pupil at the Academy. His hair was snow white now, but he looked like a man happy with his purpose.

Though God knew the army hadn’t had much purpose these last three months.

“What’s the news from the front? I want to hear it from your lips, not the damned reports. I learned those could be rather optimistic,” Smith grumbled, most likely reflecting on his time commanding the invasion of Canada.

Grant couldn’t help but concur. He sipped the fine whiskey appreciatively. I didn’t cut the heat, but it did cut through the frustration he’d felt. Ever since the failure outside of Knoxville last year, he’d heard nothing but complaints from newspapermen, subordinates, and a long string of desertions. He’d ordered executions, hadn’t liked doing it, but he needed the men to stay in camp. Through the winter he’d cracked a few Confederate skulls in skirmishes, but the army had been mostly in camps in the frustrating country of eastern Kentucky. Kirby Smith had set himself back up in Bowling Green, but Grant knew he could get him out again if given the chance.

“I’m afraid sir not much has changed since April. I’ve got our boys near Bowling Green letting Kirby Smith know we could flush him out, but so far he’s only looked at us. Bragg’s much the same, still spread out near the Cumberland Gap. He’s made no moves, and I’m happy with that.”

“So am I,” Smith nodded. “Though if I hear he’s dispatching anyone west, I’ll be happier.”

“I doubt it,” Grant said. “Little Rock isn’t worth a regiment to Bragg. Though I imagine the Arkansas boys disagree. For all the good that will do them.”

“And how are our boys?” Smith asked, bringing them to the real reason Grant had traveled all the way to Louisville from the front lines over bad roads, rebel guerillas, and a sparsely populated country which seemed as hostile to men in blue as someone from South Carolina might be now.

Shifting uncomfortably in his seat Grant downed the rest of his drink and immediately asked for another. It was going to be a sad conversation.

“Well, if I had to say it, depressed. Melancholy like poor old Cump was at the start of the war. If I sent them out to fight tomorrow they’d fight, but my officers tell me there’s so much grumbling about why bother. They think McClellan is going to give up the fight.”

Smith nodded. “I’m not one to question our president, and God knows I’m no politician, but I don’t know how to convince the men they’re wrong.”

“Personally I do all that I can to discourage such talk, especially with the officers. You know that if officers start letting that talk spread it will be all we hear about from Virginia to California within a week. Nothing moves faster than army gossip.”

“Not even the telegraph,” Smith chuckled. More somberly he continued. “No, the men are depressed Sam, you’re right about that. If I could order them to drive out Kirby Smith I would, but I’m as tied up by this armistice as you are.”

“And that’s the worst thing,” Grant said taking out a cigar and offering it to his superior. “I know we could lick them. It would be a long and bloody slog, and we’d lose too many more good men, but we could lick them. The war might last another two, even three years, but we could win. We just need to convince the nation of that. But if we drive Smith out of Bowling Green, if the navy can push Hollins squadron back to Memphis and up the Mississippi we can win some big victories this year."

“An awful lot of ‘ifs’ in that plan, Sam. I think the nation is getting tired of ‘if’ from the looks of things.” Smith said darkly.

“Unfortunately, sir, I think you’re right.” The question was how. Grant took a deep drag of his cigar and filled the room with smoke. It didn’t manage to obscure that unwholesome thought.

 

[MonarchistCanuck]

A few possibilities for Alaska:
1. Russia is forced to cede it after a war in the late 19th or early 20th century, probably to Canada.
2. Continuous American and British immigration but no sale leads to the uncomfortable situation of Alaska having a majority Anglophone Protestant population, leading not to Alaska's annexation by Canada or the US, but its independence.
3. (my favorite option) Japan takes it during the Russo-Japanese War

Assuming social and racial views continue as OTL, Japan taking Alaska will  not be taken well by Canada, especially if British Columbia still joins Confederation. It'll likely be seen as the "Yellow Menace" getting a foothold on our shores, which makes me wonder if Britain would move to  block a Japanese takeover of Alaska or would they permit it over Canadian objections to court Anglo-Japanese relations? Think Alaskan Panhandle dispute of OTL, but then double that and the negative reaction from Canada.

EDIT: Of course I post just as another update strikes! I get the sense that Grant and Smith might be scheming something to... raise morale in the near future

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Honestly I just sometimes feel this need to counter this idea that the US no matter how banged up it gets or how much territory it loses will always be this big strong nation that'll settle the score down the line. It's entirely possible that if McClennan surrenders that he's unable to effectively repair the nation and leaves the presidency with the nation barely recovering and a mess of a political landscape for the next guy to try and fix up.

A worse possibility is an embittered Union soldier catches him in the wrong place and the wrong time and assassinates him leaving the nation completely rudderless in the wake of this disastrous war.

America certainly has it's share of little Napoleon's who are willing to use that kind of chaos to advance themselves and their power and prestige at the cost of their nation.

I do admit that part of the reason I began writing this was to very much dispel the notion that with enough grit and determination the United States could pull off a win, as the realities of economic suffering, Britain having a superior economy and navy, and fighting a two front war on a continental level would stretch the US extremely far and put a strain on its resources it wouldn't have had to deal with before. The further boost to the Confederate morale/economy provides just an extra challenge. I've been rather meticulous in spelling out how things would, I think, go wrong for the Union war effort. Despite some morale building victories, I think that even if the US somehow pulled off bigger wins against Britain in Canada, the British would proportionately step up their support of the South to divert American resources elsewhere.

By 1864 I do think that even in an ideal situation Lincoln would have been facing enormous political pressure for peace, so he would have had to make some painful decisions no matter what. Here he took a gamble, but it cost him the election. McClellan is now president, and we'll see how that turns out! As you can see, his cabinet is not the most united in their views about the war...

Hard feelings all round is a certainty in 1865 though.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

That's also pretty obvious as Britain is the most powerful empire at this time. I was thinking along the lines of other nations advancing their agendas when Britain is distracted by something else but also not to the point of appearing antagonistic. Like a more powerful France acting as a counter to British interests in Europe, Africa and Asia.

I'm not very well-versed in European history but my impression is that with the Great American War, France can make certain advancements it might not have done IOTL that could become detrimental to Britain.

So far many of the events that have taken place have been historical, the Austro-Prussian invasion of Denmark*, the French invasion of Mexico, and Spain mucking about in the Caribbean and South America. France, much more successful in Mexico, is going to be emboldened in the aftermath as well. While in Asia at the moment, some huge butterflies are shaping up a new dynasty emerging in China, which means Britain, while being so focused on the war in North America, has had her assessment of the situation there slip a bit. Though many Europeans are going to be blindsided by what happens in Asia in WiF's later 19th century.

*The Russians mucking about behind the scenes to try and get better relations with Sweden is the big change here, as Russia is covertly trying to cover its flanks to prevent being bottled up in the Baltics again in a potential future war. The Austrians sending larger naval forces into the North Sea, Britain's backyard, and having a naval battle there is irksome to London to say the least. The distraction in North America will make them reprioritize Europe providing something doesn't pop up elsewhere. So there's going to be lots of diplomatic shenanigans in the future that Britain won't necessarily like.

 

[Nenshou Yuuki]

So far many of the events that have taken place have been historical, the Austro-Prussian invasion of Denmark*, the French invasion of Mexico, and Spain mucking about in the Caribbean and South America. France, much more successful in Mexico, is going to be emboldened in the aftermath as well. While in Asia at the moment, some huge butterflies are shaping up a new dynasty emerging in China, which means Britain, while being so focused on the war in North America, has had her assessment of the situation there slip a bit. Though many Europeans are going to be blindsided by what happens in Asia in WiF's later 19th century.

*The Russians mucking about behind the scenes to try and get better relations with Sweden is the big change here, as Russia is covertly trying to cover its flanks to prevent being bottled up in the Baltics again in a potential future war. The Austrians sending larger naval forces into the North Sea, Britain's backyard, and having a naval battle there is irksome to London to say the least. The distraction in North America will make them reprioritize Europe providing something doesn't pop up elsewhere. So there's going to be lots of diplomatic shenanigans in the future that Britain won't necessarily like.

A US that's more inwardly focused and suffering a double whammy of losing against Britain and possibly the CSA isn't going to be as able to prevent European intervention and influence the Americas, the Monroe Doctrine would likely be as good as dead in this scenario. Especially if France has greater success in Mexico.

Would Britain try and step up to prevent other European countries from gaining to much influence in this region? Germany/Prussia is an obvious contender here but I think Italy if they smelled an opportunity would try and throw their hat in the ring.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Good update as always, it seems like McClellan is once again being his own worst enemy because he can't either bother to swallow his pride and go along with the abolitionists or go down into peace talks no matter what, his famous indecision once again ensuring he's gonna have a tumultuous presidency to say the least, not a Andrew Johnson per se but still pretty close to that. At least it's nice seeing Grant have the right attitude about things and hopefully will be the one to get a major victory to bolster the soldier's morale again, especially if the US Navy can trash the CSA one.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Hmm, so we're looking at a more intense Great Game? Are we going to see butterflies in Afghanistan? Perhaps a certain veteran of the War of 1862 taking command instead of Elphinstone?

Definitely a more intense game indeed!

Henry maybe, he was a virulent anglophobe, Brooks though? I'm not so sure, he wasn't an anglophobe like his brother OTL and was an advocate of Anglo-Saxonism that included the UK (while his brother wanted the British wiped off the face of the earth, ITTL Henry's views will only be solidified further). Maybe Brooks will advocate to let bygones-be-bygones so the Anglo-Saxons can focus on the Chinese menace?

Bare in mind my deep understanding of the brothers came from a quick Wikipedia search

Anglophilia will have some undercurrent in the New Men, but they will have other ideas about what makes America, some which will be less pleasant than others. A touch more imperialist in some senses.

I wonder how this effects future British overseas possessions. Them being kingdoms of their own once they have 'matured' enough to be almost independent, with Canada acting and being quite clearly seen as the second voice in the British Empire.

The ideal of Empire is going to be important in Canada after the war, not just for the abstract but from the very real feeling of brotherhood with England, even though some will view Canada more as an apendage rather than a true partner in the 19th century. However, with a memory of British soldiers and sailors fighting and dying alongside Canadians from 1812 and 1862 there's a real sense of belonging and imminent threat from the south that Canadians won't be able to ignore.

How deep this goes in the other white settler colonies, well, we shall see!