Una diferente ‘Plus Ultra’ - the Avís-Trastámara Kings of All Spain and the Indies (Updated 11/7)

As others have mentioned, Spain has dominance in the Americas and the Indian spice trade and are using that wealth to solidify control in the Western Mediterranean, as opposed to some of the other adventures/goals from the OTL. There has been some excellent work describing the economic transitions undergoing in Spain and some of the ways the State are trying to invest in infrastructure and tamper inflation. But inflation is definitely going to be a huge problem going forward as more people gather more wealth.

It is difficult to know where best to dump some of this investment. Clearly from an Iberian centric view you want more roads and bridges and ports and agricultural improvements and schools and hospitals and universities and administrators in Spain proper. But all that will only get you so far. Inheritance and land reforms could potentially help. But we also know we are going to see some beautiful churches and religious art.

But some of this wealth needs to be shifted to the colonises and the trade posts and potentially North Africa. Indeed, dumping a lot of investment into North Africa may end up being the next best because having your neighbours being well developed helps you to be more developed. But, it is doubtful to me that the Spanish will have either the ability, or the foresight to produce the right investment.

North Africa is getting more arid and we are seeing further desertification. I do not know enough about agriculture to know if the new pastoral lands could be re-converted back into agricultural land using technology and knowledge of the time, and would probably require far more control of the interior than Spain probably is willing to get into. However, if Spain decide that North Africa is their mission, the whole region could become very very different going forward. It could actually see war and rebellion further damage the environment. Again, the author can take it how they want to take it.

Another potential thing going forward if Spain really go deep into North Africa could be greater Spanish awareness of some of the cutting edge Islamic knowledge and research. As an example, could the Spanish get their heads around some of the work of Ibn Khaldun. Perhaps not, but certainly it would be interesting to see Spain carrying that work forward.
 
As others have mentioned, Spain has dominance in the Americas and the Indian spice trade and are using that wealth to solidify control in the Western Mediterranean, as opposed to some of the other adventures/goals from the OTL. There has been some excellent work describing the economic transitions undergoing in Spain and some of the ways the State are trying to invest in infrastructure and tamper inflation. But inflation is definitely going to be a huge problem going forward as more people gather more wealth.

It is difficult to know where best to dump some of this investment. Clearly from an Iberian centric view you want more roads and bridges and ports and agricultural improvements and schools and hospitals and universities and administrators in Spain proper. But all that will only get you so far. Inheritance and land reforms could potentially help. But we also know we are going to see some beautiful churches and religious art.

But some of this wealth needs to be shifted to the colonises and the trade posts and potentially North Africa. Indeed, dumping a lot of investment into North Africa may end up being the next best because having your neighbours being well developed helps you to be more developed. But, it is doubtful to me that the Spanish will have either the ability, or the foresight to produce the right investment.

North Africa is getting more arid and we are seeing further desertification. I do not know enough about agriculture to know if the new pastoral lands could be re-converted back into agricultural land using technology and knowledge of the time, and would probably require far more control of the interior than Spain probably is willing to get into. However, if Spain decide that North Africa is their mission, the whole region could become very very different going forward. It could actually see war and rebellion further damage the environment. Again, the author can take it how they want to take it.

Another potential thing going forward if Spain really go deep into North Africa could be greater Spanish awareness of some of the cutting edge Islamic knowledge and research. As an example, could the Spanish get their heads around some of the work of Ibn Khaldun. Perhaps not, but certainly it would be interesting to see Spain carrying that work forward.
He asked me if in the future they can create a kind of Spanish Raj
 
@Torbald noticed you mentioned a sort of proto- national Bank in the resont updates, when you get a chance could you explan that a bit more I'm interested in what that is like during the time frame, like was there any otl instution similar?
 
It is difficult to know where best to dump some of this investment. Clearly from an Iberian centric view you want more roads and bridges and ports and agricultural improvements and schools and hospitals and universities and administrators in Spain proper. But all that will only get you so far. Inheritance and land reforms could potentially help. But we also know we are going to see some beautiful churches and religious art.
But some of this wealth needs to be shifted to the colonises and the trade posts and potentially North Africa. Indeed, dumping a lot of investment into North Africa may end up being the next best because having your neighbours being well developed helps you to be more developed. But, it is doubtful to me that the Spanish will have either the ability, or the foresight to produce the right investment.

I think it makes sense to have a significant part of the New World treasure ending up in Maghreb. The political and ideological reasons exist. Building a catholic Africa that will serve as the continuation of the Reconquista seems like the most probable long-term state project. It is to the benefit of all the important stakeholders in spanish policy making: Monarchs, aristocrats seeking fiefs, burghers seeking markets and trade, clergy and the military orders. It is the one project that all of these groups will support.

Infrastructure in North Africa will include forts, roads, ports, financial or material help to settlers and promoting conversions. The most powerful tool for conversions be it the islamization of the Balkans or the christianization of Muscovy's frontier is taxes. Specifically tax breaks for a specific religion group, while the rest are taxed heavily.

North Africa is getting more arid and we are seeing further desertification. I do not know enough about agriculture to know if the new pastoral lands could be re-converted back into agricultural land using technology and knowledge of the time, and would probably require far more control of the interior than Spain probably is willing to get into. However, if Spain decide that North Africa is their mission, the whole region could become very very different going forward. It could actually see war and rebellion further damage the environment. Again, the author can take it how they want to take it.
I don't think I know enough either, but I don't see why the agricultural base of North Africa cannot be expanded.

First of all, the pastoral tribes of the Maghreb will be spanish enemy no 1. They are warlike, independent-minded and they don't easily bow even to muslim state authority. Basically this applies to most pastoral tribes across the world. Difficult to control and even more difficult to tax. The pastoral tribes have everything the spanish state authorities hate. The religion-based hatred is added to the millennia-old hatred the settled people have for nomads. If I had to guess, the pastoral tribes will be totally destroyed in the olive tree zone, which will revert to agriculture.

What you need to reclaim that land from pastoralism-induced steppe, is basically strong property rights for yeomen farmers. An aristocrat that gets thousands of acres of steppe will use it for wool production. But a yeoman that gets a few dozen acres, if he has strong property rights (and perhaps some initial financial help) will invest in improving the land by removing boulders, building terraces etc . Good enough for the land north of the Atlas.

Instead, the aristocrats can get big plots of land in already agricultural areas, where they can provide the capital for large scale olive tree and grapevine plantations for cash crops that will be exported.
 
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Without the Habsburgs ruling over Spain does Spain become a bit more isolationist when it comes to Europe (unless if it involves the Ottomans)?
I bit more isolationist? Yes. Isolationist in general? No. The Spanish Habsburgs were unusually active in the international scene, being force to take most of the Ottoman juggernaut by themselves, dealing with the Ducht revolting (helped by the English) in the 80 years war, the Protestant mess (wich in this timeline is more... "timid"? "pacific"? "Disruptive"?) and a France that view herself nearly completly surranded by Habsburg lands. In this timeline, an united Iberia is more compact and defensible than the empire of Charles Habsburg. The border only share a border with France, a defensible one like the Pyrenies. The Ottoman can only attack them by sea and the Barbery coast is to weak to pose a real threath.
 
I bit more isolationist? Yes. Isolationist in general? No. The Spanish Habsburgs were unusually active in the international scene, being force to take most of the Ottoman juggernaut by themselves, dealing with the Ducht revolting (helped by the English) in the 80 years war, the Protestant mess (wich in this timeline is more... "timid"? "pacific"? "Disruptive"?) and a France that view herself nearly completly surranded by Habsburg lands. In this timeline, an united Iberia is more compact and defensible than the empire of Charles Habsburg. The border only share a border with France, a defensible one like the Pyrenies. The Ottoman can only attack them by sea and the Barbery coast is to weak to pose a real threath.
It helps to have better defensive geography. Makes power projection outwards a safer proposition.
 
I bit more isolationist? Yes. Isolationist in general? No. The Spanish Habsburgs were unusually active in the international scene
Indeed. The Spanish Hapsburgs were very active, but the reason there were spanish hapsburgs in the first place was because the Catholic Kings created a net of marriage alliances with their children, and then the heir died.
 
Definitely a latecomer here, but this a very well-written TL and I appreciate its historical rather than narrative format. My interest is in the Habsburg Netherlands and how it progresses without the Dutch Revolt and war with Spain. I've always wondered if Austria and the Netherlands would stay together or if you would end up seeing Dutch Habsburgs and Austrian Habsburgs competing for influence in the Empire.
 
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A part of me hopes that the Spanish will rule the entire American continent, but then again it sounds like a pipe dream.
IOTL the Spanish tried to expand their American territories by stablishing settlements that failed to bear fruit through the 16th centuries. Examples would be Ciudad del Rey Don Felipe in Tierra del Fuego in order to stablish a degree of control over the Strait of Magellan, Ayllon's colony in South Carolina, the further exploration of the southern Appalachians in search for gold which the Spanish mostly ignored IOTL, the Spanish colony and chain of missions in Virginia, or the Portuguese attempts to settle Newfoundland. There is plenty of room for one or some of these projects to be succesful here.
 
IOTL the Spanish tried to expand their American territories by stablishing settlements that failed to bear fruit through the 16th centuries. Examples would be Ciudad del Rey Don Felipe in Tierra del Fuego in order to stablish a degree of control over the Strait of Magellan, Ayllon's colony in South Carolina, the further exploration of the southern Appalachians in search for gold which the Spanish mostly ignored IOTL, the Spanish colony and chain of missions in Virginia, or the Portuguese attempts to settle Newfoundland. There is plenty of room for one or some of these projects to be succesful here.
I guess without spending so much time in Europe the Spanish will definitely turn towards other things. I will say that if Spain manages to hog the entire continent to itself (Indigenous people will contest that of course) from other European powers then it'll definitely be overpowered but that's if it's done right.

Also another effect: if Spain hogs the Americas then there won't be much of an incentive for the other European powers to form their own colonies (except Denmark colonizing Greenland), though I wouldn't be surprised if a few decide to try their luck in Africa and Asia only because there's nowhere else to go to.
 
I guess without spending so much time in Europe the Spanish will definitely turn towards other things. I will say that if Spain manages to hog the entire continent to itself (Indigenous people will contest that of course) from other European powers then it'll definitely be overpowered but that's if it's done right.

Also another effect: if Spain hogs the Americas then there won't be much of an incentive for the other European powers to form their own colonies (except Denmark colonizing Greenland), though I wouldn't be surprised if a few decide to try their luck in Africa and Asia only because there's nowhere else to go to.
This Spain have the potential to be super overpower. If nothing goes wrong here is all the land I could see Spain possibly getting

  • South America Continent
  • Central America
  • Entire Caribbean
  • North America (Mexico, California, Texas, French Louisiana,Oregon Territory, and Florida)
  • North Africa and maybe Jerusalem
  • West Africa Region
  • Central Africa Region
  • South Africa Region
  • Entire Red Sea maybe
  • East Africa maybe
  • British Raj maybe
  • Maybe Southern France
  • Philippine
  • Dutch East Indies
  • Gulf State maybe
  • Oceania maybe
  • Southern Italy
  • Province of Crete and Cyprus
 
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This Spain have the potential to be super overpower. If nothing goes wrong here is all the land I could see Spain possibly getting

  • South America Continent
  • Central America
  • Entire Caribbean
  • North America (Mexico, California, Texas, French Louisiana,Oregon Territory, and Florida)
  • North Africa and maybe Jerusalem
  • West Africa Region
  • Central Africa Region
  • South Africa Region
  • Entire Red Sea maybe
  • East Africa maybe
  • British Raj maybe
  • Maybe Southern France
  • Philippine
  • Dutch East Indies
  • Gulf State maybe
  • Oceania maybe
  • Southern Italy
  • Province of Crete and Cyprus
Sure but wouldn't they be stretched out to much?
 
Both Americas? How in the hell would they hold all that against all colonial competitors? Entire hemisphere to defend with resources of one not so big peninsula.
 
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