Terres Australes | Alternative World Thread by Substantial_Habit
- Thread starter Substantial_Habit_94
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New Gelderland, which I assume is the alternate Dutch colonized country off the west coast of Australia.
I'm honestly not convinced that Aboriginals would have reached New Gelderland. There wasn't any contact between mainland Australia and Tasmania after the land bridge was submerged until the British showed up, and the distance between Australia and New Gelderland seems to be a bit larger than that. I think it'd either be settled by Austronesians or be uninhabited until the Dutch show up.
EDIT: I'd also expect a much larger share of German descendants than 3%. I wouldn't be surprised if a near majority of settlers in New Gelderland were Germans. Same goes for South Africans, I'd expect a lot of Afrikaners to have arrived since the end of Apartheid (possibly Cape Coloureds as well).
EDIT: I'd also expect a much larger share of German descendants than 3%. I wouldn't be surprised if a near majority of settlers in New Gelderland were Germans. Same goes for South Africans, I'd expect a lot of Afrikaners to have arrived since the end of Apartheid (possibly Cape Coloureds as well).
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That is actually something that passed me. It is believed that Aboriginal Australians originated somewhere in Southeast Asia, so they surely must have crossed the Wallace line to reach Sahul during the last glacial maximum. The maximum sea extent, however, would have been around 90km or 55 miles, so kind of doable with some island hopping. Distance from Australia to New Gelderland in TTL is around 1200km (745 miles), minimum distance during an Ice Age would have been approximately 1000km (621miles), so it is very unlikely that they would have made it with their very primitive sailing skills. Austronesians, on the other hand, were much more advanced seafarers reaching even Madagascar. Austronesian populations may have been able to use the Leewing Current to sail down to southwestern Australia and New Gelderland, which seems more realistic to me. I will amend this and update the image, thanks for the feedback!!
German and Afrikaans ancestry are more prominent in reality than what the census shows. Most South African Afrikaans predominantly identify simply as "Dutch" without any further specification, and most people with German ancestry are included inside the "New Gelderlander" label. Many Germans during the 20th century tried to "hide" their identity because some were subject of suspicion and discrimination as a result of anti-German sentiment that arose following WWI and WWII.
Excellent work once again! My similar project is taking shape (albeit focusing solely on the Indian Ocean region), so it'll be interesting to compare the finished product with yours once/if it's ever finished. Already noticing quite a few differences as is.
What's the flora and fauna of New Gelderland like? I think it might be too far from Australia for rafting to be a serious possibility, so if mammals and/or reptiles are present there then I think they'd probably be more closely related to whatever escaped Antarctica following its glaciation c. 30 mya. Looking at continental drift patterns over the years, I presume this island was once connected to Kerguelen, so this scenario would also make more sense.
One other thing I might add is that if colonisation by the Dutch is to happen, it's much more likely to have taken place during the 17th century. The VOC was in terminal decline by the end of the 18th century and simply wouldn't have been able to invest the time, money and effort needed to develop additional colonies. I think it's entirely possible they don't even bother to begin with as New Gelderland wouldn't be in a position to serve as a victualling station in the same way the Cape Colony did.
What's the flora and fauna of New Gelderland like? I think it might be too far from Australia for rafting to be a serious possibility, so if mammals and/or reptiles are present there then I think they'd probably be more closely related to whatever escaped Antarctica following its glaciation c. 30 mya. Looking at continental drift patterns over the years, I presume this island was once connected to Kerguelen, so this scenario would also make more sense.
One other thing I might add is that if colonisation by the Dutch is to happen, it's much more likely to have taken place during the 17th century. The VOC was in terminal decline by the end of the 18th century and simply wouldn't have been able to invest the time, money and effort needed to develop additional colonies. I think it's entirely possible they don't even bother to begin with as New Gelderland wouldn't be in a position to serve as a victualling station in the same way the Cape Colony did.
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That is a very good question. Being mid-way between Kerguelen and Australia I imagine that the biodiversity of the archipelago would have a mix of the two (although due to climate it would resemble Australia's more). Regarding plants expect big eucaliptus forests, Casuariana, several other drought resistant conifers and Cypresses, and some Mediterranean scrubs and aromatics. Fauna wise, expect Kangaroos, black swans and other water birds, and several marsupials like possums or the New Gelderland Wombat, which is a bit smaller in size than the Australian wombat.
EEZ
Exclusive Economic Zones of selected countries in TTL (for perspective)
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Seeing that maps can you also make one in the future with major (especialy new) sea transportation lanes in this world? 
Two questions, which may have already been dealt with. Is there a reason that Nieuw Gederland isn't in the group of Austral nations (not sure if you'd decided the island existed when you did that writeup) and two, does the existance of Nieuw Gederland mean that the Dutch had an Antarctic claim?
I actually need to redo that post, I made it before adding several of the alternative landmasses.
They do! In TTL the countries with Antarctic claims are: Chile, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, France, the UK, Norway, Kerguelen and the Netherlands. Unlike France did when Kerguelen got its independence, Dutch territorial claims in Antarctica didn't transfer to New Gelderland, they remain Dutch today!
Yeah, the passage between Kerguelen and Antarctica is considered one of the most treacherous for ships, even more than Drake's passage. Winds and currents are extremely strong in here. It's important to note, however, that the Antarctic Circumpolar current is not as strong as in OTTL.
I wonder if the more complex claims might actually lead to actual treaties agreeing to claims (at least in the Eastern Hemisphere, I doubt UK vs. Australia/Chile *has* a solution)
Are the Falklands in a different situation iTTL? The Falklands war might *really* mess up the relationships among the Austral Nations.
And the EEZ means that the extra Islands in the South Atlantic are Brazilian...
The Organization of Austral Nations was, in fact, created after the Falklands War in order to avoid further conflicts. The first Austral Summit was held in Buenos Aires in 1987 and the Buenos Aires Declaration was signed and ratified by all members in order to promote regional stability and cooperation. Brasil hasn't shown any particular interests in making Antarctic claims.
EDIT: btw thank you for reminding me to update the OAN wikipage
So the Dutch have Antarctic claims, but aren't in the OAN. I *think* that makes them the only ones. My guess is that they would be invited to send a representative, even if not at the same level at the OAN national leaders/Foreign Ministers. (All we need now is a German representative for New Swabia.The Organization of Austral Nations was, in fact, created after the Falklands War in order to avoid further conflicts. The first Austral Summit was held in Buenos Aires in 1987 and the Buenos Aires Declaration was signed and ratified by all members in order to promote regional stability and cooperation. Brasil hasn't shown any particular interests in making Antarctic claims.
EDIT: btw thank you for reminding me to update the OAN wikipage
)Even with the extra islands, I think any claims running south of the extra islands would almost automatically conflict with the British Islands farther south like the South Sandwich Islands.
It also feels like the European Nations who have membership in the OAN due to minor possessions (Britain and Norway), while they theoretically be nominated to host an OAN meeting that in practice they don't.
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