Anime and Manga industry in a KMT-led/Democratic China and an united Korea - Could they surpass Japan?

[athgtq16129]

This thread is a go-to place where most discussions on this topic will be dumped as an "introduction", considering that quite a lot has been already written about this subject, but a specific thread about it has not been made yet, so the discussion below already explains the purpose and topic of this thread.

For convenience, this thread can also be about the video game industry in a KMT China and unified ROK, but the games must be Japanese-inspired, and Anime/Gacha-focused, so that this specific thread does not becomes a general video game-focused thread, which is not what it is about.

Overall, in the scenario of a Kuomintang victory in the Chinese Civil War (how do they win though?, generic Communist screw?, North China and South China between the Yangtze are established, and North China later collapses and is absorbed by the KMT in the end of the Cold War or a Third Chinese Civil War?, this is up to you), resulting in a KMT-led (or a democratic) Republic of China and an united Republic of Korea in the 21st century, how would the Anime and Manga industry be affected?

Could the Chinese manga and anime industry surpass their birthplace in Japan, making Japanese anime and manga-inspired Donghua (Chinese animation) and Manhua (Chinese comics), and Korean Aeni (Korean animation) and Manhwa (Korean comics) surpass Japan in their popularity in the West and the rest of the world, and effectively turn Anime and Manga into a Pan-East Asian thing, where the Japanese/Chinese/Korean aspects of East Asian animation and comics eventually become almost redundant, given how similar and united their industries and consumers are?, or maybe result in media of these three countries becoming even more competitive against each other?

That was being discussed elsewhere:

(I have personally edited out most of the irrelevant Bush vs. the Axis of Evil-related content in this reply)

Japan and South Korea reconciling and getting closer in the early 2000s may also inspire an earlier, stronger, and more open Japanese-Korean-Chinese co-operation in the anime and manga industry, with Korea not being restricted in the anime industry to outsourcing animation and only appearing in the end credits, and if Korean works pick up steam earlier, then Korean manhwa and webtoons could be almost as internationally popular as their Japanese counterparts, there would be more Korean manga artists working in Japan, and more Japanese artists working in Korea, like how Sorairo has said that Korea ITTL has an internationally popular webcomics (and I assume webtoon) industry:

So, a stronger Japan-Korea co-operation in the industry might result into something even bigger than OTL:

Spoiler: Graphs showing the growth of the OTL Japanese Anime industry

An earlier and stronger Japanese-Korean-Chinese co-operation could also influence Korea and China to jump into the single-player and console market in the 2000s instead of later, and maybe make Korea and China fellow East Asian powerhouses in single-player and console video-games, instead of it mainly focusing on PC-only MMORPGs, Gacha, and mobile titles, since single-player and console games were never that much popular in South Korea when compared to Japan, only recently that South Korea has been tapping into the single-player game market with Lies of P and Stellar Blade.

I also wonder if the stronger Japanese-Korean-Chinese co-operation might result in MMORPG games gaining popularity in Japan, like how single-player console games could reach an earlier popularity in Korea.

Also, there will likely be less Chinese people living in Japan, less Sino-Japanese economic and cultural co-operation, and thus less Chinese people working in the anime and manga industry, and less Japanese people working in Chinese media projects, which would cause some changes in the way how anime are produced, because many Japanese anime today are partially animated by Chinese studios (so technically speaking, the "Chinese Cartoons" meme is accurate lol), and also vice-and-versa, with Chinese anime being animated by Japanese studios.

Just almost a year ago, MAPPA Studio founder Masao Maruyama said that he believes that China will overtake Japan in the Anime business, even despite all of its censorship laws, he goes as far as to say that if China did not had such censorship and media restrictions, then they would have already easily surpassed Japan, so imagine all of the OTL potential of China becoming an anime powerhouse, and also the already-existing billion-dollar international industry of Chinese-made anime-styled video games, being completely thrown out of the window ITTL.

(I recall that in the 2000s, most anime was outsourced to South Korean animation studios, much like Western cartoons, it was only recently that Chinese studios have started to become more prominent)

Overall, most of what I wrote about the anime and manga industry basically is "similar as to what is happening right now, but starting in 2004 instead of 2024", other than the obvious divergences due of the popularity of military anime, the hypothetical mecha renaissance, more Korean characters, earlier Korean involvement in the industry, and lack of Chinese involvement in the industry.

Overall, I recall that the CEO of Studio MAPPA said that he personally believes that the anime industry of China will one day surpass Japan's, and that if China did not had such strict (and inconsistent) media censorship, they would have surpassed Japan long ago, then imagine such a thing in a victorious KMT timeline, assuming that they would be more socially permissible to tolerate things related to violence and sex which are common in anime.

I would say it depends since all things considered its likely that China becomes like South Korea/Taiwan pre-liberalization where the military ruled everything and mass censorship, state controlled, and the police state dominated everything. In many ways not that different from our PRC but at least it would likely lead to less deaths overall.

Once the state does start to liberalize it would still be likely that Japan dominates the anime scene since they hold a major head start in both Technic and market, without any major censorship or potential political/ideological opposition. If nothing else this China would become a major market for the Japanese Anime/Manga and would eventually start to copy and take after Japan but its likely that eventually the Japanese and Chinese anime and manga markets just unite into several pan-Asian entities.

The only thing stopping that now is the CCP/PRC and their conflict with the west/East Asia along with the whole oppressive and controlling state.

Agreed, people who think that a victorious KMT China would be a socially progressive hippie paradise is daydreaming, after their victory in an alt-Chinese Civil War, the KMT China would still remain an authoritarian military dictatorship, since China would also be recovering from decades of brutal wars and social unrest, the 1950s-1970s in a KMT China would not have had as many deaths without the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

But famines, mass murder of suspected communists and anti-KMT rivals, China's own red scare, political purges, mass censorship, economic crises, social conservatism (might be amplified ITTL, since the anti-religious campaigns of the PRC would not have occurred, or would have been less severe, thus, the pre-WWII American missionary-derived Christianity remains strong and more popular in this KMT China, ditto with Buddhism that does not undergoes persecution), and social unrest will still inevitably keep occurring until the 1970s or so.

This is arguably occurring as of now, see how many anime studios have been outsourcing their productions to Korean and Chinese studios, more Chinese and Korean mangaka are publishing their works in Japan, Chinese and Korean gacha games are huge successes in Japan, and Japanese anime and manga are huge successes in Korea and China.

Hell, it took a while for me to become aware that stuff like Genshin Impact, Azur Lane, Honkai, and Nikke are not Japanese works, I would not have been aware of these Chinese and Korean anime and manga works in the 2000s (the only remotely popular pre-2010s Korean Manhwa in the West that pops in my mind is Ragnarok, whose MMORPG was very popular here in Brazil in the mid 2000s), and most anime and manga database sites have also started to accept South Korean and Chinese animation into their list (when they only previously permitted Japanese works), I can really feel that the anime and manga industry is slowly morphing into a single pan-East Asian market.

In my long hot take on the Bush vs. the Axis of Evil thread, I mentioned that an increased Japanese-Korean (thus in the scenario we are talking about, Japanese-Korean-Chinese co-operation) in animation, manga, and video games would happen around 20 years earlier (early 2000s), instead of only picking up steam in the 2020s.

Also, if the KMT wins a total victory, then North Korea would not exist, so an united Republic of Korea might also turn out differently from OTL South Korea, maybe its dictatorship period may or may not be butterflied away, or be less severe and oppressive as it was IOTL, thus also giving more creative freedom to Korean manga/manhwa and anime creators.

I wonder if a liberalized KMT China would also legalize gambling, or adopt Pachinkos as a loophole, hell, as of 2015, Japan's pachinko market generates more gambling revenue than that of Macau, Las Vegas, and Singapore combined!

 

[Sekhmet_D]

They will not surpass Japan, but are likely to collaborate closely with Japan and form Japan's biggest market for anime and manga before producing original material of their own.

 

[Fratsup]

Another thing to consider is how religion will be in the ROC. Not sure how the ROC was on religion but considering things there would likely be far more acceptance or Chinese religion and tradition in general which might lead to the rise of major cults like in South Korea or even Japan. With that one has to wonder how this would affect Chinese entertainment.

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

Good job making a unified thread on these matters. @Sasha_2003 this seems like a good place for your queries.

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

I was about to post some thoughts on the state of some sort of anime industry in a victorious KMT China on the Footprint of Mussolini thread, I forgot about doing so, but this thread with a troll-ish tone has hopefully reminded me to do it.

Overall, I recall that the CEO of Studio MAPPA said that he personally believes that the anime industry of China will one day surpass Japan's, and that if China did not had such strict (and inconsistent) media censorship, they would have surpassed Japan long ago, then imagine such a thing in a victorious KMT timeline, assuming that they would be more socially permissible to tolerate things related to violence and sex which are common in anime.

I would say it depends since all things considered its likely that China becomes like South Korea/Taiwan pre-liberalization where the military ruled everything and mass censorship, state controlled, and the police state dominated everything. In many ways not that different from our PRC but at least it would likely lead to less deaths overall.

Once the state does start to liberalize it would still be likely that Japan dominates the anime scene since they hold a major head start in both Technic and market, without any major censorship or potential political/ideological opposition. If nothing else this China would become a major market for the Japanese Anime/Manga and would eventually start to copy and take after Japan but its likely that eventually the Japanese and Chinese anime and manga markets just unite into several pan-Asian entities.

The only thing stopping that now is the CCP/PRC and their conflict with the west/East Asia along with the whole oppressive and controlling state.

Agreed, people who think that a victorious KMT China would be a socially progressive hippie paradise is daydreaming, after their victory in an alt-Chinese Civil War, the KMT China would still remain an authoritarian military dictatorship, since China would also be recovering from decades of brutal wars and social unrest, the 1950s-1970s in a KMT China would not have had as many deaths without the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

But famines, mass murder of suspected communists and anti-KMT rivals, China's own red scare, political purges, mass censorship, economic crises, social conservatism (might be amplified ITTL, since the anti-religious campaigns of the PRC would not have occurred, or would have been less severe, thus, the pre-WWII American missionary-derived Christianity remains strong and more popular in this KMT China, ditto with Buddhism that does not undergoes persecution), and social unrest will still inevitably keep occurring until the 1970s or so.

This is arguably occurring as of now, see how many anime studios have been outsourcing their productions to Korean and Chinese studios, more Chinese and Korean mangaka are publishing their works in Japan, Chinese and Korean gacha games are huge successes in Japan, and Japanese anime and manga are huge successes in Korea and China.

Hell, it took a while for me to become aware that stuff like Genshin Impact, Azur Lane, Honkai, and Nikke are not Japanese works, I would not have been aware of these Chinese and Korean anime and manga works in the 2000s (the only remotely popular pre-2010s Korean Manhwa in the West that pops in my mind is Ragnarok, whose MMORPG was very popular here in Brazil in the mid 2000s), and most anime and manga database sites have also started to accept South Korean and Chinese animation into their list (when they only previously permitted Japanese works), I can really feel that the anime and manga industry is slowly morphing into a single pan-East Asian market.

In my long hot take on the Bush vs. the Axis of Evil thread, I mentioned that an increased Japanese-Korean (thus in the scenario we are talking about, Japanese-Korean-Chinese co-operation) in animation, manga, and video games would happen around 20 years earlier (early 2000s), instead of only picking up steam in the 2020s.

Also, if the KMT wins a total victory, then North Korea would not exist, so an united Republic of Korea might also turn out differently from OTL South Korea, maybe its dictatorship period may or may not be butterflied away, or be less severe and oppressive as it was IOTL, thus also giving more creative freedom to Korean manga/manhwa and anime creators.

I wonder if a liberalized KMT China would also legalize gambling, or adopt Pachinkos as a loophole, hell, as of 2015, Japan's pachinko market generates more gambling revenue than that of Macau, Las Vegas, and Singapore combined!

Regardless, I will soon be starting a thread dedicated to this subject, so I will tell you when it is ready.

Not sure how true this would be since the Kuomintang would likely be like South Korea where they control sexuality in media and heavily control or outright band porn. Things might change if the Kuomintang China liberalizes however which might see greater liberty and less willingness to censor.

Taken the liberty to transfer over non-joke posts from the other thread to help get this one off the ground (and because I feel a little bad for making fun of it so much).

 

[Sekhmet_D]

Another thing to consider is how religion will be in the ROC. Not sure how the ROC was on religion but considering things there would likely be far more acceptance or Chinese religion and tradition in general which might lead to the rise of major cults like in South Korea or even Japan. With that one has to wonder how this would affect Chinese entertainment.

You can look to present day Taiwan for your answer. Chinese folk religion continues to flourish there while it is moribund if not all but extinct on the mainland.

 

[Fratsup]

You can look to present day Taiwan for your answer. Chinese folk religion continues to flourish there while it is moribund if not all but extinct on the mainland.

I guess but considering how much larger mainland China is and how diverse that place is it would definitely lead to a greater amount of diversity. This is before we count any potential question of how centralized this ROC is.