Alternate warships of nations

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In 1925, the United States Navy found itself resting on its laurels as France and Russia were licking their wounds. The naval buildup worldwide prompted a cautious Congress to authorize 3 new battleships. Initally the USN was thinking of making a group of 37,500 ton battleships based on the successful Constitution class.

Senator Tillman, furious with the ever increasing demands ordered the navy to build the largest battleships possible so 'No more demand would reach this room' igoring realities that the US shipyards could not build up a ship of some estimated 70 000 tons. However, the naval board introduced the most ambitious design possible.

Named after the home state of President Lincoln (as it was the 60th anniversary of the end of the Civil War) the USN introduced a 44,000 ton design which in the future would be used as a future basis for the "Battleship to end all battleships". Using a newly developed 18 inch cannons and utilizing the most protective above and underwater armor scheme at the time and with a secondary and tertiary Armarment designed with aerial threats in mind instead of torpedo boats.

When finished some 82 months after beginning, the Congressional members were impressed with the design. Although underarmored, US gunnery was regarded as among the best in the world and it's massive guns and speed would allow it to choose battles with other Dreadnoughts and frighten battlecruisers.

In 1932, they would get their chance to show themselves off as France would go for a round three with the US blaming them for supplying the Viet Cong (a false accusation as it was Germany and Japan that supplied them).

As Pennsylvania was heading to Panama with three light carriers (the former New York armored cruisers of 1898 vintage) and 4 heavy cruisers they stumbled upon the elderly Lille (French battlecruiser, 1907, 25 knots, 12 inch guns), a seaplane carrier and a light cruiser heading to the canal from their Antilles base.

The giant battle wagon surged after them and while the Astoria class Heavy cruisers pursued the latter engaged the battlecruiser. Within minutes it became clear that the captain, Percy Olmstead had kept his crew trained as 18 inch shells tore through the ship starting fires and preventing an effective response.

The only thing that saved Lille from immediate destruction was a a plea of assistance from the heavy cruisers as two had been torpedoed. The battleships presence was too late as the longer legged vessels escaped. Afterwards she and her sibling headed to the Phillipennes and would prove themselves.

Despite furious french air resistance, the quick firing AA weapons performed well against the canvas biplanes. Further attempts to attack with submarines were met with failure as they were in company with small fleets. The only torpedo strike to succeed (launched by the Surcouf) only got two torpedoes in on the Rhode Island which was overseeing invasion bombardment during rhe assault on Saigon. The ship was relatively undamaged and the Surcouf sunk an hour later.

Overall the class was well regarded for a variety of features including air conditioning (a first), spacious accommodation for admirals, Electric Eyes (RADAR) and the first 6 inch DP mounts.

By the end of the war in 1935 though, major criticisms would emerge. The major being it's lack of armor as evidenced in the Illinois battle with the French Dreadnought Charles Martel. Despite the latters sinking, the American battleship was grievously wounded by the 15 inch guns and nearly sank herself. The second and most pressing was how undefended they were from air attack.

The French air force, despite being bloodily repulsed in the first two years on air air attacks scored strikes when more powerful metallic monoplanes emerged allowing dive bombers and torpedo bombers to survive the light AA.

The most pressing manner though was how inessential it was. The work it performed had many contenders in the excellent (for their time) Consitution class and Michigan class.

When the time came for cutbacks in 1938 to meet arms treaties the US surprised the world by scrapping the battle wagons first. However their legacy would live on in the 55,000 ton Arizona class of 1950 (built to meet the German Bismarck class) which followed many of the same principles but did them far better. An event that would be proven in the battle off Iceland when Arizona and Oklahoma with the carriers Wright and Langley defeated a German battlefleet comprised of three Bismarck Class and two Graff Zeppelin carriers with minimal injuries in 1954.

Thankfully in recent years the Illinois class has been rehabilitated from its scornful outlook as the influence on the Arizona has been recognized.
 
Here's an alternate version of the Cabot...or more specifically the Dedalo. In this scenario the Spanish Navy never acquired the Principe de Asturias and kept the WW2 light carrier in operation well into the 1990s. Here she is with a ski-jump fitted to her bow.

USS Cabot 1998.jpg
 
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In 1931, the Norfolk Treaty was signed causing battleships to be limited in size to 20,000 tons and 12 inch guns. As new technologies had come into their own some nations put money into these baby battleships to test ideas. The Japanese navy, preparing to build a 16 inch, 40,000 ton warship did not participate in this.

The navy instead invested in several light carriers (Ryujo), began replacing it's light and heavy cruisers, but before all that the 50 plus strong Sagiri class was built. In all truth, the Treaty gave incentive for the top heavy navy to finally fix its ancient destroyer fleet, some of whom had endured since 1900!

The Sagiri, despite being the first class built for Japan in 15 years is still the best known. The Navy designed it with speed and economy in mind with aerial and submarine defence in mind with mine laying a secondary objective.

When completed, the class surprised it's critics, who viewed it unfavorably due to its mixed nature and taking funds from the aerial projects of the day including the 20,000 ton Akagi class and the cruiser projects, when the daring captain's of the 1st and 3rd divisions launched a night raid during excercises and sank 4 battleships, 2 carriers and a pair of cruisers before escaping. On the way out the victorious vessels sank 4 destroyers with little damage and reached home base despite constant air attack.

All 56 destroyers would be finished by 1938, being finished in batches of 14 every 2 years. Later refits would see diesel engines, autoloaders, and greater AA defenses being added while a subclass (meant for convoy defense) made its name.

There only action was in the 1948-1953 Containment War (Japan, UK and US versus the Soviet Union). Despite the loss of 18 gallant destroyers, all served quite well taking 32 merchant ships, 3 light cruisers and 2 heavy cruisers plus 135 aeroplanes being destroyed by them. Later classes using the basic body to guide construction.

Out of the 38 survivors, 7 would be scrapped due to uneconomical damages sustained during the war and 30 would be scrapped. The Sagiri now rests in Nagasaki as a memorial to the 1.5 million Japanese soldiers and civilians killed in the war.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akizuki-class_destroyer_(1942)
Designed with help from a RTW discord group to be a better vessel than the Akizuki class. Posts on CL and CA built during Treaty upcoming.
 
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The 1931 treaty, while limiting the battlefleets failed to account for the size of light ships like destroyers and light cruisers. The naval ministry thus gave orders for the navy to build a new set of 10 light cruisers. The navy initially balked until the designers returned with the C-234 design meant to replace the older but still able 5-6 inch single gun cruisers.

The navy, although smarting from not building the Nagato agreed to the demands and in 1934 the first cruiser Chitose was launched. While impressive at the time, her significance has since been realized in the years since.

The main feature they wielded that surprised all was a set of powerful diesel engines co-produced by General Motors and Daihatsu. While heavy at the time, their endurance and reliability won the navy over to the idea of diesels and during the 1941 war games routinely out ran supposedly faster ships by virtue of their engines not giving out.

Unlike the Sagiri, the first action the cruisers undertook was to restore order in Sumatra after the Dutch had been overthrown in 1939. The Muslim majority had become persecuted by the rulers and sent pleas for help. The Japanese 'assistance' was quick an swift. The battle of the Java sea (4 Suma class and two Kongo BCs escorting 24 transports versus the ancient Dutch battleship Koning Der Nederlanden, 3 destroyers and a monitor.) Was a quick conflict that saw the Suma slightly wounded as one of the ancient 11 inch guns managed to strike her. Order was restored and in response the Japanese recieved usage of several ports and land for airfields. A move that has caused much trouble since including a low lever terrorist campaign in the region.

Subsequent refits included better and lighter engines, Dual purpose modification to the 6 inch guns, radar and an auto loading system. The vessels were considered by many observers to be pricey but perfect for the modern

During the Containment war, the cruisers would play a variety of roles alongside their larger cousins (the Tone class). Out of the ten light cruisers, 3 were destroyed in Battle (one by a strafing run setting off the Oxygen torpedoes and two in Battle with heavy cruisers). However their mining campaign was performed brilliantly cutting off Port Vladiastosk and later assisting in destroying the Baltic fleet as part of the Expeditionary force.

Post war, all but two of the vessels were scrapped as being uneconomical to retain. The Chitose and Takao would find new life as missile cruisers until 1962 when they were sent to the scrapyard.

While too small for everything the navy hoped for, the economy of the design and it's innovative features allowed it to remain a contendor well past the time other ships of their era had been retired.
 
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The Azuma class design of 1936 was perhaps the most controversial design of the Treaty era. It's record is stellar and were considered (until the Nagato 19 inch battleship class of 1946) to be the most stellar assignment in the fleet. It's critics maintain that it was simply too big and took away from more important projects including the Kamikaze minesweepers and Amagi class carriers while making a class that could defeat only cruisers and hardly was a threat even to the mini BBs of the Treaty era.

However, the navy continued on with its project. Following the success of the light cruiser diesel engines, the heavy cruisers were given larger diesel engines. This would serve them well in the years to come.

Just before the Containment War, Azuma and her 5 sisters would be given radar and other upgrades to prepare them for war. On her way to Phusan, Azuma was the first vessel to open fire in the war when she stumbled upon a Soviet convoy at night. Using her radar gunnery and torpedoes she destroyed all but 3 of the merchant ships and 2 of the escorts.

Over the war, the vessels would find themselves constantly put deeper into harms way and the Soviets hardly missed an opportunity to hunt them.

This included sending out battlecruisers armed with 13-15 inch guns to hunt them down. On one occasion this would backfire as during the near disastrous Battle off Port Arthur in 1949, the Mogami was wounded by a pair of Russian battlecruisers. While making her escape, the captain received reports that a carrier strike from the Intrepid, Amagi, and Ryujo was coming and they needed guidance.

Guiding the planes to the target, Mogami surged at the startled Soviets who had turned as their 25-28 knot vessels were incapable of catching up. Over the next 25 minutes Mogami would be reduced but put a pair of torpedoes into the larger Gangut. However 8 minutes before the air strike arrived, Mogami turned over and sank.

Needless to say, Gangut and Moskau were sunk.

Over the war, only Azuma survived the war intact and was sent to become a memorial at Kure.
 
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The IJN Hatsuse was built in England for the Japanese navy in 1898. Larger than preceding classes and marked a move away from the small ship programs of the past decades. The Hatsuse and her sister Ahashi proved popular upon arrival.

The arrival would be most timely as in 1902, the Japanese would be implicated in the sinking of a pair of German merchant ships bringing supplies to the garrison in Tsigato which nowadays is believed to have been performed by Frenchmen eager to humiliate Germany in any way. The Kaiser declared war and on September 5th, 1902 Japan and Germany were at war.

After covering a landing near Tsigato, Hatsuse and the light cruiser Unebi returned to their base to refuel. While returning, the two ran into a most peculiar group of cruisers beginning the skirmish of Tsushima.

The German cruisers Seydlitz and Blücher were heading to Tsigato to raid the landing parties and their ships and make good their escape. Howevet, upon spotting the light cruiser Captain Schmied of the Blucher (and commander of the task force) decided to strike the 'heavy (misidentifying the Battleship) and light cruiser' as their loss would be devastating to the Japanese and without the prospect of beaching, the crews would be lost as well. Given the German superority in heavy cruisers (a usual Armarment of 4 X 8 or 2 X 10 inch guns compared to the 6 to 9 inch guns of the Japanese cruisers) this was a sound plan and one that the Germans would perform twice in the war with great success.

Captain Amari of the Hatsuse realized the Germans mistake as the 8 and 10 inch gunned cruisers rushed them. Ordering the Unebi to lay down a smokescreen, the Hatsuse lured the cruisers into range of its 12 inch and 6 inch secondaries before opening fire.

The Blücher faltered under the furious fire and in an act of heroism and atonement ordered the Seydlitz to retreat. The German cruiser escaped while it's comrade was smashed to pieces. Captain Amaris action and the power of the Hatsuse class led to the Japanese ordering two more modified battleships (the 15,500 ton Fuso class) from Barrow in Furness.

After the war, Hatsuse and her sister would remain either in home waters or in the newly acquired possession of Truk. That is, until the first British 'Dreadnought' appeared on 1907. Eager to catch up and a utilize the burgeoning naval industry, the sisters were refitted to have turreted 5 inch guns (a move that saved weight allowing the engine replacement to not bring the ships overweight) and powerful boilers that brought the ships from 17 knots to 22 knots.

Darlings of the press they were and despite other navies referring to them as 'Baby-Cruisers' (as their speed put them squarely into battlecruiser levels) the Japanese navy was satisfied with them. Over th next four decades, they would see incremental ugrades but would firmly remain as 'second rate battlecruisers'.

Finally in 1943, the Japanese navy announced that after the 6 Mutsu 17 inch Dreadnoughts were completed by 1948. Hatsuse and all battleships completed before 1940 were to be scrapped. Then came the British/German declaration of War on Japan after the submarine Trident (of the Anglo T-Class) fired on the CV Taiho nearly sinking it.

For the first two years Hatsuse and her sibling would plod across the seas performing drills and showing the flag in low intensity areas. Then, while leaving Sumatra the Hatsuse was ordered to meet up with a trio of destroyers and the Unebi. All five vessels learned their target.

A convoy of 21 merchantmen had arrived into the area to relieve Singapore. Escort was provided by a 'Large cruiser' and 8 destroyers. A light carrier had been assigned but had been sunk by aerial and submarine attack.

The Hatsuse and her consorts charge unaware of the screwup in intelligence.

The 'Large cruiser' was indeed large. She was the HMS Glorious of the 21,000 ton Berwick Class wielding 6 X 13.5 inch cannon. While an older vessel, she had been updated to wield radar and the guns were of a new type wielding superior ammunition to those of her launch some 34 years before.

Thus when the attack group located the convoy, they were stunned to discover that the Glorious was in the convoy and was much faster than the Hatsuse. Captain Yagi made his decision.

Ordering his fire control radar teams to begin the plotting the older man transferred the Emperors portrait to the trusty Unebi and ordered the smaller ships to engage the light forces and merchantmen. Then the Hatsuse charged at the Glorious.

With 45 minutes the battle had ended. Despite an inital strong showing with the Hatsuse knocking out one of the 3 turrets in as many salvos, the British responding fire had been equally devastating.

If the ship had come from the same era she might have been only crippled for good. But given she was a small pre dreadnought the Hatsuse proceeded to suffer withering fire below the waterline (ordered by Captain Argus of the Glorious who was aware of the weakness in older designs). Then the Glorious departed without warning.

The remaining members of the force, all present with slight damage had managed to savage the enemy with 14 sunk merchantmen and 6 destroyers going down.Captain Yagi ordered Unebi to take two destroyers and pursue the wounded Glorious and sink her.

The Unebi and destroyers departed as the others began taking men off. Twenty minutes later they returned and Captain Yagi furiously demanded the reason, Captain Kaya gave his legendary reply "初瀬は彼女の墓で一人で寝ない. Or 'Hatsuse will not sleep alone in her tomb.'" Against all the odds and logic of the situation, Hatsuse had sunk her larger and better equipped opponent. Captain Yagi, considering suicide to atone for recklessly endangering his vessel walked off the vessel with his men. As the last man left, Hatsuse gracefully and peacefully went to her resting place like the lady she was.

For the loss of 96 men and a elderly predreadnought turned battlecruiser, England would lose 456 men, 18 merchantmen (4 destroyed by medium bombers from Sumatra as they made their escape), a battlecruiser, and 6 destroyers. Singapore would fall 8 weeks later to the irresistible Japanese advance.

In the aftermath, Captain Yagi was praisedan for his ships handling and RADAR was proven in the eyes of the fleet as the quick caculations allowed the Hatsuse to kedp a murderous fire on the Glorious until the bitter end. Admiral Goto was severely criticised for insisting on using 'expendable' units only for this vital attack instead of treating it like the high priority prize it was. As it was, an estimated 8,000 casualties are estimated to have been caused by the remaining ships supplies including 24 Valentine tanks, fuel and ammo for them, and fresh water generator parts.

Post war, the Japanese Navy would honor the fallen battleships memory by naming the first nuclear carrier after her. A fitting tribute efor such a colorful vessel.

(Yes, this old girl of 1890s vintage took down a British 1915 design just before the 1950s. Yes she is a memetic bad ass whenever she appears in games or media)
 
@Vanguard45

For all that Hatsuse did, i cry over spending money upgrading a start game pre-dread like that. Especially machinery improvements, those usually hurt. :p

Then again it's because my Japan game i play from time to time has resulted in me being awfully strapped for cash.
 
@Vanguard45

For all that Hatsuse did, i cry over spending money upgrading a start game pre-dread like that. Especially machinery improvements, those usually hurt. :p

Then again it's because my Japan game i play from time to time has resulted in me being awfully strapped for cash.
TBH, I forgot I had her and her sibling in service.
I built some beautiful CA's, CL's, and DD's superior to those of late Japanese WW2 designs. THen came the battle and I realized that to my horror I forgot to scrap the conversions.
And I havent upgraded her since 1924.
She was burning coal still
 
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In 1954, the Confederate Navy prepared for conflict with their Northern neighbors, two schools of thought on how to proceed clashed. The first was the old gunnery school utilizing land-based air support to guard the battleships and carriers which would act as silencers for ground defenses while lighter ships defeated submarine and torpedo boat strikes. The other was to scrap the all but the most modern heavy cruisers and focus on carriers with destroyer support. Then came the 1955 struggle with France which saw the Carribean island based fighters overwhelm the French carrier bombers and fighters. Thus the Confederates made their faithful choice to build the four Mallory class battleships (North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and Louisiana) with a strong emphasis on underwater and bomb protection to increase survivability mixed with the reliability of diesel engines allowing the ships to choose their battles.

Over the next seven years, all 4 would take shape all over the Confederacy with the assistance of their British allies who would build the turrets and RADAR sets to set up experience for the construction of the Lion Class. From 1959-1961 all 4 would be launched and finished. The last to be completed, Louisiana, finished working up on May 15th, 1961. The United States and German Republik (Modeled on the Roman Republic of old) declared war as English and Confederate troops marched into Panama to take possession of the Panama Canal (Which had been seized from the French/Mexicans by Panamian troops when the country declared independence with US assistance under an 'Open Door' policy.

For the first six weeks, not much happened as light forces engaged while armies blasted each other on the US/Confederate borders (as Canada had declared her neutrality fearing retaliation). The 4 battleships' first engagement was unplanned and like all major battles, a mess.

The Battle of Hatteras Bight was supposed to have been a rendezvous between the Confederate Home Fleet and elements of the Royal Navy (including the HMS Hermes, the UK's largest carrier). US and German cryptologists had deciphered the coded messages, utilizing the somewhat mature transistor technologies and informed Admirals Horner (US) and Voigt (German) of their intentions. The Germans and US, despite not having enough forces in the area (4 Carriers, 8 battleships, 3 battlecruisers, 18 heavy cruisers, 25 light cruisers and 65 destroyers versus 6 light carriers, 10 battleships, 6 battlecruisers, 20 heavy cruisers, 6 light cruisers, and 50 destroyers all told) decided to reveal their ace card.

Developed in secrecy in Germany's African colonies utilizing US electronics schooling and German theoretical sciences, two weapons systems had been developed. Originally the alliance planned to utilize them during port strikes but with a golden opportunity the chiefs of staff signed off on Operation Anvil. The US and German fleets worked to intercept the fleets before they unified.

The US fleet (4 Carriers, 3 battleships, 3 battlecruisers, 6 heavy cruisers, 10 light cruisers, and 25 destroyers) found the Confederate fleet first when an RJ3 (Recon jet model 3) "Eagle" discovered the Confederate fleet (2 light carriers, 8 battleships, 13 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, and 30 destroyers) and avoided missile fire from the Confederate interceptors.

45 minutes later, Confederate RADAR systems picked up a flight of 120 contacts, the interceptors surged to protect the fleet while radio jamming systems activated all over the fleet. About 30 miles from the fleet, the Confederate fighters discovered that there were no torpedo or level bombers. Only fighters of a large and unknown type.

This was discovered when at 5:32 PM, Red and Silver flights (The escort group) launched 24 'Hawke' RADAR guided missiles causing the Confederate Sabre Interceptors to break formation. This would be the baptism of fire for the US FBJ4 'Starjet'.

84 planes of the US formation would then proceed to increase speed to Mach 2.1 outrunning the subsonic fighters while the remaining 36 would engage the interceptors with heat-seeking missiles and cannon.

At 5:40, all 84 planes would launch the second part of the US/German ace in the hole, the
'Rübezahl' anti-ship missiles, a 2-ton warhead guided by RADAR with rocket propulsion and a 40 km range. While the Confederates were familiar with the principle of an ASM, the models they had faced or developed were radio controlled and glide bombs. As such, despite fierce Confederate resistance from their AA systems including using the much-maligned 'Buckshot' main cannon armament, all 336 missiles (4 from each fighter) would surge past the screen with only 45 being destroyed. Out of the 291 missiles, 214 would strike the fleet with 77 missing or doing little to no damage (such as in the case of the CSS Sumter (CL, 7500-ton cruiser) which had four missiles punch through the armor and explode in the water.

The carriers Robert E. Lee and James Longstreet would be obliterated as around 20 missiles each struck them (or landed in the general area), the old battleships Arizona, Florida, Alabama, and Arkansas would be destroyed as around 25 missiles each struck them (or landed in the general area), the heavy cruiser Richmond was struck down by 6 missiles (confirmed to be a dud in some of the programming), the worst hit were the 4 19 inch battlewagons. North Carolina was destroyed by a swarm of 15 missiles causing a mercifully brief death as her ammo went off. South Carolina was struck by 5 missiles but seemed to have survived when she was rammed by her sister Virginia (recipient of 4 missiles which struck its bridge and rear turrets leaving her blind and unable to be controlled) causing both to sink some hours later. Louisiana was struck by 3 missiles which blew apart her fuel tanks causing the diesel to ignite covering her in flames. The fleet would return as quickly as possible with Louisiana nearly sinking twice due to instability.

For the rest of the war, Louisiana would rest in the docks abandoned as bombers struck Charleston anytime major movement on her was detected. Thus when US troops entered Charleston, they managed to capture the remains mostly intact.

Upon the end of the 'Reunification war' (1961-1965), Louisiana would be seized by the US forces and would be used as part of 'Operation Hammer' with the remnants of the CS fleet and older US, British and German ships. Moored in the South Atlantic, on November 16th, 1966 the B-35 known as 'Daisy Girl' dropped a single device over the fleet. Although Louisiana was the original target (due to her stout build) the wind would cause the device to activate over the US battleship Mcclellan (which many found far more fitting afterward). At 7 AM sharp, device Baker would detonate marking the fifth usage of a nuclear device in history.

Although devastated, Louisiana survived although her port side was melted. US sailors in protective gear would climb on her three days later and scrubbed the ship clean in an effort to remove radiation (the goal of the tests was to see if fleets would be usable in the aftermath of a nuclear strike). Despite 20 hours of cleaning by some of the most experienced men in the fleet with the best tools possible, the Geiger counter revealed that it was all for naught. With the knowledge the fleet was no longer usable in any manner, the US and Germans would send multiple conventional systems (experimental) and used the ships as targets. Louisiana would be used as a target for the Harpoon missile system and would sink after three hits (frustratingly for the commander she survived until a storm came and she sank in the middle causing the navy to rule it as unsuccessful as built.)
 
What is the largest turret and gun caliber a sea-going destroyer similar to the French Navy’s Fantasque (or a very light cruiser) can field?
 
What is the largest turret and gun caliber a sea-going destroyer similar to the French Navy’s Fantasque (or a very light cruiser) can field?

The german 1936A class DDs had 150mm guns, but the ships suffered from topweight and poor seaking. I've also read references to too low rate of fire (for destoyer main guns, I assume); some of this must be true, because the germans went back to 127mm afterwards.
 
The german 1936A class DDs had 150mm guns, but the ships suffered from topweight and poor seaking. I've also read references to too low rate of fire (for destoyer main guns, I assume); some of this must be true, because the germans went back to 127mm afterwards.

The primary reason for this was the weight of the twin turret so far forward on a hull not designed to carry such a weight, this far to the bow, resulting in the ship being heavy on her bow and as a result a poor seaboat, compared to a more ballanced design. a single mount of the 12.7 cm/45 (5") SK C/34 was: 22,487 lbs. A twin mount for the 15 cm/55 (5.9") TBts KC/36T was: 133,159 lbs. Here is the principle problem of the sheer increase in weight put on the bow of a ship.
 
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