A buddy and I were making an alternate history of the United States if it owned Canada. I went to view previous threads by other people, but I found them to be lackluster, or that they got railroaded very quickly.

In the case of this United States, Quebec, Nova Scotia, PEI, etc. took up the Continental Congress's offer to discuss grievances with the British crown, and thus have been in the United States since its inception. I am still working out the details of this.

Nevertheless, I am interested in seeing opinions on the development of cities, railroads, and population centers. Do you think a Montreal Pacific railroad from Montreal to the Fraser River is viable or would even be attempted? Would cities like Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie be larger with an earlier Saint Lawrence Canal? Would Quebecer and New England firms purchase vast swathes of the Canadian Prairies to sell them to unsuspecting settlers?

Also, here is the proposed state map. Please tell me if you think it is viable or not. (For the Canadian Prairies, I concocted some sort of scheme in which the US purchased the HBC after the Civil War, thus retaining much of the HBC's districts. I also kept Prince Edward Island as it own state, as the Continental Congress historically recognized it as its own colony.)
 

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I'm not sure how likely having a not-New Brunswick as a separate state to Nova Scotia is ITTL.
Perhaps it might be a bit fanciful. We were thinking that having some sort of New Brunswick-esque state, possibly named 'Acadia', would be a good addition as a free state to oppose other slave states.
 
The thing is the Continental Congress did reach out the Quebec (Lower Canada at the time), it didn't go so well.

As far as roads go, the biggest thing I can think of is if Canada and the rest of the country don't see eye to eye often (you have a lot of loyalist and French Canadians there neither are very popular with most Americans) then there would probably only be a few highways connecting the the ends of the states and minor roads connecting the towns.
Basically like OTL Maine even though they would have larger populations. Heck Estcourt Maine still can't be reached from the USA (last I checked).

[Edit] Railways, I could see one connecting Montreal and Quebec City to the rest of the country, as they would probably be the centers of non-loyalist/non-French descendant populations. Any others would probably be industry only railroads, focusing on lumber or food transport. And even then, they would probably be much younger than the others in the country as sending lumber down the river will still be cheaper until the environmental concerns stop it.
Ah, ok - so "Maine, but this time it's Francophone..."
Francophone Maine, the way life should be! 🙂🌲
 
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How do you think these extra states would affect the ratification of the Constitution?
Depends on the government they had. If they are almost exclusively made up of strong patriots and imports from other states then I don't think not much changes.

If the governments are made up of popularly elective native borns, then I wouldn't be surprised if even more religious protections would be put in place. Quebec would be the only majority practicing Catholic state (Maryland had a lot of Catholics, but they were largely disenfranchised before the revolution). They would not want any chance of the English speakers pully any tricks.
 
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I thought of an earlier version of West Virginia (Westylvania) in the earliest days of the United States; by the way, how about the plausibility of OTL West New York achieving statehood.
 
I've heard conflicting information on whether Vancouver or Seattle would be the larger city in this scenario (from looking at previous threads; all either dead or railroaded by now). I know that Vancouver has a better port for deep sea operations, while Seattle has a more "defended" position. I do know that the Salish Sea area will be a megalopolis in its own right.
 
I've heard conflicting information on whether Vancouver or Seattle would be the larger city in this scenario (from looking at previous threads; all either dead or railroaded by now). I know that Vancouver has a better port for deep sea operations, while Seattle has a more "defended" position. I do know that the Salish Sea area will be a megalopolis in its own right.
Maybe Vancouver is the bigger commercial city while Seattle (or Tacoma, or Olympia) has military facilities like a naval base.
 
PEI is just too small in population to be its own state. A much more unique and sensible state would be Acadia: PEI, Magdalen Islands, Anticosti, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Gaspe Peninsula, and the disputed territories with Maine. This state would only have 2.5 Million in population.

Merge Nevada and Utah, call it Deseret. Nevada without Las Vegas is simply too small.

West Florida should have the Florida parishes from Louisiana and the state to the north of it.

Merge alt Minnesota with the state south of it, give the portion on the east side of the Mississippi to Wisconsin, which should then be split in two at Manitowoc. You could mess with the state borders of that northern part, as it was disputed with Ontario.

The three states where Montana is could be one.

The two states on Ontario north of the lakes are too small to be their own, merge.

Does the UK still control Bermuda, and does France own Miquelon?

For a more creative fix to West Virginia, as who knows when, how or if the Civil War occurs, create Vandalia and Transylvania instead.

Same thing with Eastern Tennessee.
 
PEI is just too small in population to be its own state. A much more unique and sensible state would be Acadia: PEI, Magdalen Islands, Anticosti, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Gaspe Peninsula, and the disputed territories with Maine. This state would only have 2.5 Million in population.

Merge Nevada and Utah, call it Deseret. Nevada without Las Vegas is simply too small.

West Florida should have the Florida parishes from Louisiana and the state to the north of it.

Merge alt Minnesota with the state south of it, give the portion on the east side of the Mississippi to Wisconsin, which should then be split in two at Manitowoc. You could mess with the state borders of that northern part, as it was disputed with Ontario.

The three states where Montana is could be one.

The two states on Ontario north of the lakes are too small to be their own, merge.

Does the UK still control Bermuda, and does France own Miquelon?

For a more creative fix to West Virginia, as who knows when, how or if the Civil War occurs, create Vandalia and Transylvania instead.

Same thing with Eastern Tennessee.
Thank you for your considerations, I'll definitely consider the Acadia idea, however, my justification for PEI's status as a separate state stemmed from the fact that the Continental Congress extended invitations to them for both its first and second sessions.

I'll probably merge Nevada and Utah, as the only reason Nevada existed (in our own rational/state map), was a Republican attempt to "cuck" over Utah and the Mormons, and to of course provide additional Republican votes during the subsequent elections after receiving its statehood.

I have to finish the Minnesota border, probably will end up merging it.

I wanted to know about the Ontario states, and will definitely merge them. Although I do question if cities on/near the Great Lakes such as Thunder Bay, Sault Ste. Marie, Sudbury, etc. could/would be larger due to an American presence there. Perhaps another manufacturing city on the Great Lakes?

Bermuda is apart of Virginia, Miquelon was purchased in the 20th century and became apart of Newfoundland
 
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Maybe Vancouver is the bigger commercial city while Seattle (or Tacoma, or Olympia) has military facilities like a naval base.
There's also natural harbors on Vancouver Island, such as Esquimalt and Victoria which could further bolster a US naval base. Just tossing ideas that I came about with to hear other people's perspectives on the matter.
 
Do you think a Montreal Pacific railroad from Montreal to the Fraser River is viable or would even be attempted?
A northerly route across the Canadian prairies (Winnipeg-Vancouver or something similar) is reasonable enough and likely gets built eventually, but the Canadian Shield in northern Ontario is remote from major population centers and difficult to build on, meaning that in the absence of a border between Canada and the US there's no reason for any transcontinental railroad to route north of the Great Lakes. Any rail connection between Montreal and Vancouver most likely routes south through Toronto, Detroit, and Chicago rather than taking anything resembling a straight shot west.
(For the Canadian Prairies, I concocted some sort of scheme in which the US purchased the HBC after the Civil War, thus retaining much of the HBC's districts. I also kept Prince Edward Island as it own state, as the Continental Congress historically recognized it as its own colony.)
Such a purchase might be made significantly earlier, as part of TTL's Oregon Treaty. I will also note that the districts you are using as the basis of states in the Alberta-Saskatchewan region were never districts of the Hudson's Bay Company. They were first formed in the 1880s and did not achieve their depicted boundaries until the 1890s, well after Canada acquired the Northwest Territories in 1870. The more northerly ones would also be rather thinly populated if admitted as states: there's a reason Canada decided to consolidate them into two provinces instead of admitting them as four.

As to the boundaries, the general thing to note is that by adding four more northern states to the Union right from the beginning, you have significantly altered the balance between free and slave states, which will have important ramifications for US foreign and domestic policy, as well as US state boundaries.

You also have a lot of common AH state borders going on: West Florida, MegaWisconsin with Chicago and the Upper Peninsula, Texas with the borders it had as a Mexican territory, Vancouver Island separate from British Columbia, SoCal separate from NorCal, not just one but two states of Jefferson (Mountain and Pacific), 1890s borders in the Prairie Provinces, and the US gaining Baja California from Mexico but not the Gadsden Purchase or the Nueces Strip. These aren't bad things per se (although the 1890 Prairie Province borders are definitely way too convergent, especially given how different all of the states in the surrounding regions are), but you should make sure you have a decent sense of how and why they came about as a result of your POD and its consequences, and that you aren't just throwing in a bunch of differences from OTL without thinking about how they go together.

Now, some additional notes:
  • I don't see how or why you have a separate Plymouth. Your POD is around eighty years after your last easy chance to save it around 1690, and to the best of my knowledge there was never any serious desire to carve it off as its own state post-ARW. I'm not sure what your POD would do to change this, and the Southern states would fight it tooth and nail.
  • While I can see Illinois having a more southerly northern border than IOTL, I can't see it being denied access to Lake Michigan as your map seems to, especially given the relatively minor border adjustment that would be needed to give it lake access. Sea/lake access was an important consideration in drawing state lines IOTL, and I don't see why it would be abandoned here.
  • Relatedly, IOTL the major concern when dividing the Missisippi Territory into Mississippi and Alabama was creating two equally sized states with sea access. Although a partition into three states is understandable given a desire by the South to admit more slave states to balance out the North, a partition into three quite unequally-sized states with only one having sea access seems unlikely to me. A single state of West Florida would make much more sense than having a narrow southern one that controls the coast and a larger northern one that is completely landlocked, and if it must be divided into two it would make more sense to go east-west as IOTL rather than north-south. (I would also consider shrinking North Mississippi-Alabama here by moving West Florida's borders further north and/or Tennessee's further south.)
  • I would recommend against splitting New Mexico along the Rio Grande. The deserts and mountains on either side of the river are more significant natural borders than the river itself, which forms the state's major population center: it was always administered as one unit IOTL, under Spain, Mexico, and the US, and I'm not sure why America ITTL would feel differently.
  • It is curious that your US owns Baja Calfornia even though its border with Mexico is otherwise consistently further north than IOTL. I think it could probably be justified with the right explanation, but you should have a sense of why things shook out that way.
  • Some of your states are a bit small or sparsely populated, especially historically: I've already mentioned the way you handled the Prairie Provinces, but having, say, two separate states in northern Ontario is a bit surprising. Again, not implausible per se (Nevada IOTL didn't even break 100,000 people until 1940), but you should have a sense of why the decision was made to draw the boundaries that way.
 
A northerly route across the Canadian prairies (Winnipeg-Vancouver or something similar) is reasonable enough and likely gets built eventually, but the Canadian Shield in northern Ontario is remote from major population centers and difficult to build on, meaning that in the absence of a border between Canada and the US there's no reason for any transcontinental railroad to route north of the Great Lakes. Any rail connection between Montreal and Vancouver most likely routes south through Toronto, Detroit, and Chicago rather than taking anything resembling a straight shot west.

Such a purchase might be made significantly earlier, as part of TTL's Oregon Treaty. I will also note that the districts you are using as the basis of states in the Alberta-Saskatchewan region were never districts of the Hudson's Bay Company. They were first formed in the 1880s and did not achieve their depicted boundaries until the 1890s, well after Canada acquired the Northwest Territories in 1870. The more northerly ones would also be rather thinly populated if admitted as states: there's a reason Canada decided to consolidate them into two provinces instead of admitting them as four.

As to the boundaries, the general thing to note is that by adding four more northern states to the Union right from the beginning, you have significantly altered the balance between free and slave states, which will have important ramifications for US foreign and domestic policy, as well as US state boundaries.

You also have a lot of common AH state borders going on: West Florida, MegaWisconsin with Chicago and the Upper Peninsula, Texas with the borders it had as a Mexican territory, Vancouver Island separate from British Columbia, SoCal separate from NorCal, not just one but two states of Jefferson (Mountain and Pacific), 1890s borders in the Prairie Provinces, and the US gaining Baja California from Mexico but not the Gadsden Purchase or the Nueces Strip. These aren't bad things per se (although the 1890 Prairie Province borders are definitely way too convergent, especially given how different all of the states in the surrounding regions are), but you should make sure you have a decent sense of how and why they came about as a result of your POD and its consequences, and that you aren't just throwing in a bunch of differences from OTL without thinking about how they go together.

Now, some additional notes:
  • I don't see how or why you have a separate Plymouth. Your POD is around eighty years after your last easy chance to save it around 1690, and to the best of my knowledge there was never any serious desire to carve it off as its own state post-ARW. I'm not sure what your POD would do to change this, and the Southern states would fight it tooth and nail.
  • While I can see Illinois having a more southerly northern border than IOTL, I can't see it being denied access to Lake Michigan as your map seems to, especially given the relatively minor border adjustment that would be needed to give it lake access. Sea/lake access was an important consideration in drawing state lines IOTL, and I don't see why it would be abandoned here.
  • Relatedly, IOTL the major concern when dividing the Missisippi Territory into Mississippi and Alabama was creating two equally sized states with sea access. Although a partition into three states is understandable given a desire by the South to admit more slave states to balance out the North, a partition into three quite unequally-sized states with only one having sea access seems unlikely to me. A single state of West Florida would make much more sense than having a narrow southern one that controls the coast and a larger northern one that is completely landlocked, and if it must be divided into two it would make more sense to go east-west as IOTL rather than north-south. (I would also consider shrinking North Mississippi-Alabama here by moving West Florida's borders further north and/or Tennessee's further south.)
  • I would recommend against splitting New Mexico along the Rio Grande. The deserts and mountains on either side of the river are more significant natural borders than the river itself, which forms the state's major population center: it was always administered as one unit IOTL, under Spain, Mexico, and the US, and I'm not sure why America ITTL would feel differently.
  • It is curious that your US owns Baja Calfornia even though its border with Mexico is otherwise consistently further north than IOTL. I think it could probably be justified with the right explanation, but you should have a sense of why things shook out that way.
  • Some of your states are a bit small or sparsely populated, especially historically: I've already mentioned the way you handled the Prairie Provinces, but having, say, two separate states in northern Ontario is a bit surprising. Again, not implausible per se (Nevada IOTL didn't even break 100,000 people until 1940), but you should have a sense of why the decision was made to draw the boundaries that way.
Interesting takes. I do admit that a great deal of the borders were done for cosmetics reasons. Illinois and Indiana, in order to balance the ample amount of free states, became slave states, and thus their contests for Lake access were denied, although this can be amended if necessary. I'll also investigate a great deal of the state borders that I made, keeping more practical considerations to lake and population stats, although in the case of some states, a bit of "bsing" can be done to give them more population appeal.

I'll review the borders between Mississippi, Alabama and West Florida, and fix the New Mexico border using the Rio Grande river in the south, as upon further inspections, it is a solely cosmetic.

Concerning the Mexico borders, they are in-no way complete, and I project this US assuming ownership of Sonora (once I finish the borders for it) and a few other Northern Mexico provinces, perhaps I might make a thread concerning their development in the future.
 
I’m not sure how likely it is for the Maritimes to join the American Revolution but I don’t think it’s impossible to pull off due to being fairly similar to New England. If I recall correctly, what solidified them as maintaining loyalty to Britain IOTL was troops from New England trying to invade the region in 1775-76. I think you could see a more neutral leaning Maritimes at the start and then push them gradually into the rebel camp.

Quebec is a whole different can of worms since it’s staunchly Catholic and non-Anglo speaking, something the colonists were both hostile too. I think Quebec would fear losing its identity if it joined which is why I say they would be more hesitant to join than the Maritimes.

That said, I think the United States could develop a greater fishing tradition with the Maritimes and a stronger Catholic identity if Quebec is able to be integrated into the United States. It would certainly come into play on issues like emigration and other issues that religion has had a hand in IOTL. Also perhaps a greater Cajun and French presence in Louisiana in this timeline? That would definitely be interesting to observe.
 
Interesting takes. I do admit that a great deal of the borders were done for cosmetics reasons. Illinois and Indiana, in order to balance the ample amount of free states, became slave states, and thus their contests for Lake access were denied, although this can be amended if necessary.
I don't see this. "Admit Illinois and Indiana as slave states but cut them off right below Lake Michigan" doesn't really make sense as a compromise: it inconveniences both states while giving the South everything they want and the North nothing. The logical compromise would be to divide Illinois and Indiana north-south rather than east-west, with the northern portion becoming a free state and the southern portion becoming a slave state. Even that compromise isn't necessarily going to happen though, because a weaker South means a South that, while more eager to admit slave states, is also less able to get their way, especially if that means, say, imposing slavery on states that IOTL did not want it (your more southerly northern borders for Illinois and Indiana aren't far south enough to make them really pro-slavery: see this post on slavery in a Chicago-less Illinois and its discussion of the OTL 1824 attempt to call a constitutional convention to legalize slavery in Illinois, which failed even though the northern half of the state was largely empty of European settlement).
Concerning the Mexico borders, they are in-no way complete, and I project this US assuming ownership of Sonora (once I finish the borders for it) and a few other Northern Mexico provinces, perhaps I might make a thread concerning their development in the future.
Ah, well that makes Baja California make a lot more sense, and I suppose is a plausible consequence of a South that is more desperate to bolster the ranks of slave states and so presses for a more southerly border.
 
I don't see this. "Admit Illinois and Indiana as slave states but cut them off right below Lake Michigan" doesn't really make sense as a compromise: it inconveniences both states while giving the South everything they want and the North nothing. The logical compromise would be to divide Illinois and Indiana north-south rather than east-west, with the northern portion becoming a free state and the southern portion becoming a slave state. Even that compromise isn't necessarily going to happen though, because a weaker South means a South that, while more eager to admit slave states, is also less able to get their way, especially if that means, say, imposing slavery on states that IOTL did not want it (your more southerly northern borders for Illinois and Indiana aren't far south enough to make them really pro-slavery: see this post on slavery in a Chicago-less Illinois and its discussion of the OTL 1824 attempt to call a constitutional convention to legalize slavery in Illinois, which failed even though the northern half of the state was largely empty of European settlement).
Ah, I didn't know of this. Will definitely make amendments to the Indiana border, though I suspect I'll keep the Illinois border where its at due to my affinities to Wisconsin.
 
Sorry, I know this is my third time asking, but would Sault Ste. Marie be larger due to the Americans controlling it? I forsee larger locks being built, and much earlier due to the waters not being split between Canada and America.

Additionally would Winnipeg be larger or smaller?
 
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