WI: Vinlandic rats and cats--Vikings spread rats and cats to the Americas

From the late 10th century until perhaps the early 15th century and final collapse of Norse Greenland, the Norse were in sporadic contact with North America, exemplified by the expeditions to Vinland by Leif Erikson and Thorfinn Karlsefni, although the Norse of Greenland periodically sailed to Markland (Labrador) until the early 15th century to harvest timber, in short supply in Greenland.

To my knowledge, neither rats (black rats) nor cats were introduced in the Americas in this era, although both animals found their way to Greenland thanks to the Norse, yet it doesn't seem hard to establish a population of either animals considering they are some of the most successful invasive species globally along with relatives like Polynesian rats which are important marker of human presence on remote islands.

The PoD here would be that enough cats are brought to Vinland alongside rats to establish a breeding population. These animals will spread from initial Norse landings in Newfoundland and Labrador to elsewhere in the Americas. OTL demonstrates that black rats in the Americas (along with later brown rats which arrived after this POD) outcompete native mice for resources. Cats have been found to also decimate native mice and birds and prefer hunting them over Eurasian mice and rats.

So if Leif or Thorfinn leaves behind a few cats along with some mice in Vinland in the early 11th century, and the Norse and/or Beothuk are mobile enough in trade to the mainland and spread cats and rats to mainland North America, what happens next? I'd assume we'll have feral cats which look like Icelandic feral cats (and more distantly the more refined Norwegian Forest Cat breed which is similar to the Maine Coon, Siberian Forest Cat, etc.), so generally bulky and fluffy cats. Rats will spread quickly and will outcompete native species.

Likely American Indians will use these feral cats for fur and maybe meat, but would this new species of rat impact American Indian civilisation? Are there any other notable impacts caused by this earlier introduction of two notable invasive species?
 
Likely American Indians will use these feral cats for fur and maybe meat, but would this new species of rat impact American Indian civilisation? Are there any other notable impacts caused by this earlier introduction of two notable invasive species?
Well if the rats get bad enough its not impossible for the feral cats to take a page out of their ancestors books and redomesticate themselves to hunt the rats going after the native's foodstuffs
 
The black rats of the Early middle ages couldn't survive very far north and cats if I'm not mistaken can breed with and eventually assimilate into the bobcat/Lynx family.

What would be interesting and very plausible would be them leaving behind boars like Europeans did OTL. Now those guys did a number on the ecosystem.
 
Norwegian Forest/Maine Coons do not breed with bobcats/Lynx Rufus/.
I know from a friend who owns 2 Coons and 2 pet bobcats.
And even if they do somehow (a Coon "Tina" showed some interest in bobcat "Tom" more than once in this particular anecdotal case), the hybrid would be sterile.
 
And even if they do somehow (a Coon "Tina" showed some interest in bobcat "Tom" more than once in this particular anecdotal case), the hybrid would be sterile.

Weird. But still, even the hardy types like the Maine Coon only do so well in an environment not affected by humans (i.e. killed off the former wolf, cougar, fox, and lynx pops or introduced an invasive species that makes an easy prey) and even then I'm not sure those breeds or anything like them were around in the viking age.
 
They belong to different geni (Felis and Lynx respectively), and despite bobcat being small enough to be considered a valid mating partner for a Coon phenotypically, from genetic PoV it's easier to crossbreed bobcat with European lynx (artificial insemination may or may not be involved) than bobcat and Felis cattus.
Provided you attempt to get viable breed and not a gimmick kitten to show off as curiosity (some cases were marketed as F1 Coon/bobcat hybrid, but were either a marketing fraud or "feline mules").

P.S. And I'm going to my Coon keeping friend only tomorrow, while I got the urge to pet one today. Thanks, thread. Meow.
 
those breeds or anything like them were around in the viking age.
Norwegian Forest IS an ancient breed. And while Vikings were no Egyptians, they WERE a holy animal of goddess Freya, and a kitten was actually involved in wedding gift.
The cats Vikings kept were rather large, not modern day largest Coons large, but 7-kg tomcats from archeological evidence were nothing unusual (likely looking even bigger when they were alive thanks to impressive fluff).
 
This Coon approves this thread (or paw-proves):
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Riain

Banned
North America certainly has some native small cats; bobcat and lynx in the north and ocelot and jaguarundi in the south. How would domestic cats fare against these when outsdie Nordic settlement?

North America also has some native rats, how would these fare against the black and brown rat?
 

Philip

Donor
I didn't know able black rats, but brown/Norway rat is perhaps the most successful mammal after humans. Of course, OTL success is largely due to its close relationship to humans. I doubt it would be as initially successful ITTL in North America without more grain stores and urbanisation.

The biggest challenge is that the brown rat was a relatively late arrival in Europe. It may not be available for the Vikings to export.
 
The black rats of the Early middle ages couldn't survive very far north and cats if I'm not mistaken can breed with and eventually assimilate into the bobcat/Lynx family.
Even in the medieval warm period? Checking the modern range of black rats shows they live in Newfoundland so they just might be able to make the jump to the mainland. And cats can't breed with bobcats, they aren't even in the same genus and to my knowledge no hybrids have ever been confirmed to exist, so it may be scientifically impossible.

What would be interesting and very plausible would be them leaving behind boars like Europeans did OTL. Now those guys did a number on the ecosystem.
Boars are more liable to being hunted to extinction before they get a good breeding population although it's certainly interesting
Weird. But still, even the hardy types like the Maine Coon only do so well in an environment not affected by humans (i.e. killed off the former wolf, cougar, fox, and lynx pops or introduced an invasive species that makes an easy prey) and even then I'm not sure those breeds or anything like them were around in the viking age.
The breeds themselves weren't but the ancestral stock was around since carnivores in colder climates like Scandinavia or Canada will be larger than other carnivores elsewhere.
North America also has some native rats, how would these fare against the black and brown rat?
Not so well apparently since invasive Eurasian rats have driven native rats and mice out of some niches (and cats prefer to hunt native rats and mice because they're easier prey).
 
Even in the medieval warm period? Checking the modern range of black rats shows they live in Newfoundland so they just might be able to make the jump to the mainland. And cats can't breed with bobcats, they aren't even in the same genus and to my knowledge no hybrids have ever been confirmed to exist, so it may be scientifically impossible.


Well along with the temperatures of the Norse world as well as the distances involved I don't imagine very many black rats would survive the journey. I'd also think rat stowaways on Knarrs would be a lot less of a problem than on 17th century ships. So all in all they probably would thrive in Newfoundland but the real question is if they could even get there and even if they did in numbers that wouldn't make them horribly inbred within a few generations.

As for cats I'm fairly certain they can breed with one native species; a friend of mine in NC has one that certainly doesn't look it and has very weird proportions and though I've heard bobcats are more likely to kill than breed with domestic cats it does happen rarely and enough to put a dent in the figures (along with death by wolves, hawks, other things).
 
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