WI The Shogunate Never Rose?

AltoRegnant

AltoRegnant

Japanese politics were dominated by the military government of the shogunates, starting in the eleven hundreds with Minamoto Yorimoto in the 1180s. But what if this generalissimo didn't rise to power, and the emperor remained the top dog in japanese politics? It is worth noting that the emperor technically still appointed the shoguns and was technically in charge, but it was a very technical technicality
 

Monter

The Emperor wasn't the top dog during the Genpei War anymore, but a puppet of strongmen in the court (either the Fujiwara regents, retired/cloistered Emperors or more recently military strongmen), if you want greater/direct Court control over the country have the Taira defeat the Minamoto, or have Kiyomori kill Yoritomo and his brothers.
For the Emperor to be an actual ruler you need a greater overhaul in the Heian government.
 

Protagoras

As others have said, the system of the Emperor being a puppet for someone didn't start with the Minamoto. But if some change were to make the Emperors consistently actual rulers, one very likely consequence is that the dynasty would end at some point, as someone from outside the dynasty would seize power and create a new dynasty. Japan has only managed to keep the same dynasty for so many centuries because of the tradition of Emperors usually being figureheads, which has meant that all the fighting has traditionally been over who gets to be the power behind the throne.
 
Marc

Marc

Donor
Protagoras said:
As others have said, the system of the Emperor being a puppet for someone didn't start with the Minamoto. But if some change were to make the Emperors consistently actual rulers, one very likely consequence is that the dynasty would end at some point, as someone from outside the dynasty would seize power and create a new dynasty. Japan has only managed to keep the same dynasty for so many centuries because of the tradition of Emperors usually being figureheads, which has meant that all the fighting has traditionally been over who gets to be the power behind the throne.
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Quite so. And it relates to the surviving European monarchies: if they hadn't become figurehead institutions, they would have been long gone by now.
 

Somebody-Someone

Prior to the Kamakura period, the tenno was still a figurehead. If we assume a PoD after 1073 (115 years before the beginning of the Kamakura period), the real powers in Japan at a national level were the Minamoto, Fujiwara and Taira clans, with authority in specific provinces usually falling to powerful clans, or (rarely) a sort-of "aristocratic republic". If you butterfly the Kamakura shogunate, you get a Fujiwara, Taira or Nishi-Minamoto de facto shogunate using a different title.
 
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