WI No American or French Revolution?

[NapoleonXIV]

WI the French King decides that while Franklin is a very nice guy they just don't have the money for another war with England. America gets no overt help from France in the ARW.

As a result, France stays solvent and has money to put through necessary reforms, the French Revolution fails.

What happens now?

 

[rcduggan]

colonial empires would last much longer, because without the French revolution there is no nationalism.. Spain is still a great power with the entire New Spain under her control. and the Holy Roman Empire still exists, and will continue to exist, almost definitely still fragmented.

technology will be really screwed up though, because all of the inventions (IE: canned food) and military tactics and strategy developed during the Napoleonic wars would never have been developed. so warfare would still be fought with 18th century tactics until the next big war, whenever that would be.

also Britain would be less dominant than in OTL.

 

[dhouse1205]

Hate to point out that, even if France didn't back the colonies during the revolution, the French monarchy would have fallen because of it's rising debts to various creditor's and spending money like a college frat boy hitting the bars during spring break. And it was all for the express purpose of competing in the biggest d*** wagging contest with the the other empires at the time.

 

[Dan1988]

^Thus you're saying that a French Revolution would still happen?

 

[Lord Insane]

^Thus you're saying that a French Revolution would still happen?

I think that has been discussed before, and the answer is 'yes, most likely'.
Of course, the operative word is a.
It doesn't have to end up with Revolutionary Wars just because there is a Revolution.

 

[dhouse1205]

There would most likely will be a revolution, just not like the type in OTL. Simply put, the Monarchy was spending too much of their capitol just to maintain the style of living they have been use to for the last hundred years. That in turn forced the noble families to keep up appearance's and match the royals coin for coin. With this continued pace, it would be inevitable that higher taxes would be forced on the forming middle and working class.

If you would also to remember the Church and the aristocracy were immune to any and all taxation.

Now add in to this mix the "Great Game" which all of the other Empires around the world are competing in, something will break and we can most assuredly see the French monarchy fall.

 

[randomkeith]

The world is a nmuch happier and better place without the American Revolution.

Americans are happy because they have free health care and gun control.

The last Major war was the Franco-Prussian war of the 1870's. As no Slavery no American Civil war.

There would have been no WW1 as Germany would never have dared attacked France, Russia and Britain with the US as a colony.

And if no WW1 there would be no WW2, Veitnam, war on terror.

There may still have been a conflict in Korea but thats about all.


Shame on you George Washington Shame

 

[Nova]

*sigh* If Great Britain still possessed the American South, they would be a bit more hesitant about abolishing slavery. If Britain still possessed what was at that time the world's largest cotton producing region, they wouldn't dream of ending slavery.

 

[Lord Insane]

*sigh* If Great Britain still possessed the American South, they would be a bit more hesitant about abolishing slavery. If Britain still possessed what was at that time the world's largest cotton producing region, they wouldn't dream of ending slavery.

He posted a very close variation of it in the 'Brits and Yankees the same nation' thread.
I argued against it there, using, among others, the 'delayed UK emancipation' argument.

 

[randomkeith]

*sigh* If Great Britain still possessed the American South, they would be a bit more hesitant about abolishing slavery. If Britain still possessed what was at that time the world's largest cotton producing region, they wouldn't dream of ending slavery.

Unfortuantly in 1807 when Britain had outlawed slavery and began patrolling the African coast to seek out and capture slaving ships. The Southern US had not yet developed into the Cotton producing powerhouse that it was from the 1840's onwards. At that time Britains cotton needs were being provided from there plantations in India.

Even if slavery continued until the 1860's as in OTL the end result would be the same, the slaves would be freed, possibley involving a war with the southern US. But no were near as costly or bad as the OTL Civil War

 

[SRT]

The world is a nmuch happier and better place without the American Revolution.

Americans are happy because they have free health care and gun control.

The last Major war was the Franco-Prussian war of the 1870's. As no Slavery no American Civil war.

There would have been no WW1 as Germany would never have dared attacked France, Russia and Britain with the US as a colony.

And if no WW1 there would be no WW2, Veitnam, war on terror.

There may still have been a conflict in Korea but thats about all.


Shame on you George Washington Shame

...Are you serious?

You're saying that without American independence, there would be no major wars? I mean, the world would be completely different, but different countries would still have conflicts of interest that came to fighting.

 

[randomkeith]

There might be some conflict with Russia, either in Europe or Central Asia, as Russia would be the only country in the world that could seriousley think about challenging a Britain with a US colony.

Baring a unification of France/Germany which would never ever have happened

 

[Paul Spring]

There could easily have been a French Revolution at some point even if France did not assist the American colonies against Britain. It might have happened 10 or 15 years later, though. It's very difficult to say if it would have followed a course similar to OTL or something completely different.

Britain would of course have been even more powerful with most of North America as part of her empire, but that does not guarantee that there would be no great wars. If Britain was too powerful, several European powers might unite against her. The equivalent of WWI might pit the British Empire and several secondary powers like the Ottomans and Sweden against Russia, France, and Austria.