WI: Greater Nestorianism in China?

[cmakk1012]

The Church of the East made inroads in China and Mongolia two separate times IOTL: during the Tang Dynasty and then again during the Yuan. Both periods ended due to political chaos and dynastic change.

My question is this: is it possible to increase the number of Nestorian Christians in China and Mongolia and make the Christian community more long-lasting without major changes in the West?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

What'd happen that if the Nestorians survive long enough to witness the arrival of Portuguese merchants and other Europeans in China is similar to the St. Thomas Christians of India. They'll be persecuted by any Roman Catholic missionaries (not to mention the Chinese imperial government) and forced to acquiesce to Latin domination. Some may rejoin the Church; others will not. Others may become go Protestant.

 

[Maoistic]

You would need either a greater Nestorian Hindustan that can then send missionaries, or Nestorian Arabs who are somehow more successful in spreading their culture into China than Muslims originally were. Both are extremely unlikely, verging on ASB territory even. I mean, Kubla Khan's mother was a Nestorian Christian for crying out loud, and yet that still did not led to any significant Christian presence into China, to the point the Chinese pretty much didn't know what Christianity was, or at least had lost all memory of it by the time of the Ming restoration.

Another possibility is having Europe become Nestorian and yet somehow still magically end up being the ruling civilisation in the world through colonialism and imperialism like it is today, leading to the wide spread of Nestorianism into China the same way Christianity has been widely spread there since the 19th century.

 

[cmakk1012]

What'd happen that if the Nestorians survive long enough to witness the arrival of Portuguese merchants and other Europeans in China is similar to the St. Thomas Christians of India. They'll be persecuted by any Roman Catholic missionaries (not to mention the Chinese imperial government) and forced to acquiesce to Latin domination. Some may rejoin the Church; others will not. Others may become go Protestant.

Even in deep inland regions? Nestorianism was strongest inland, like near Chang’an at least.

This would definitely be the situation for coastal Christianity, though.

 

[Avrorrange]

Guo Ziyi usurps the throne.The man was reportedly a Nestorian.

 

[cmakk1012]

You would need either a greater Nestorian Hindustan that can then send missionaries, or Nestorian Arabs who are somehow more successful in spreading their culture into China than Muslims originally were. Both are extremely unlikely, verging on ASB territory even. I mean, Kubla Khan's mother was a Nestorian Christian for crying out loud, and yet that still did not led to any significant Christian presence into China, to the point the Chinese pretty much didn't know what Christianity was, or at least had lost all memory of it by the time of the Ming restoration.

Well, I was hoping for something more local as a PoD

Why couldn’t Nestorian missionaries be as successful as the Muslim missionaries were at least? The Hui are still a notable population today.

The brief reading I did said that Christianity died out due to the rise of the Ming, not that it was already long gone by then, but I’m no expert.

Another possibility is having Europe become Nestorian and yet somehow still magically end up being the ruling civilisation in the world through colonialism and imperialism like it is today, leading to the wide spread of Nestorianism into China the same way Christianity has been widely spread there since the 19th century.

I don’t want a European PoD. Besides, a divergence that early would probably butterfly European imperialism anyway.

 

[Maoistic]

Well, I was hoping for something more local as a PoD

Why couldn’t Nestorian missionaries be as successful as the Muslim missionaries were at least? The Hui are still a notable population today.

The brief reading I did said that Christianity died out due to the rise of the Ming, not that it was already long gone by then, but I’m no expert.



I don’t want a European PoD. Besides, a divergence that early would probably butterfly European imperialism anyway.

The Hui are still only about 3% of Chinese society, not really notable. The bulk of Chinese Islam is still only about 5%, and would be far less if it wasn't because of the swell in Chinese population in the 20th century and the intrusion by foreign Muslim missionaries (funded by the US allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan of course), while Islam's influence on Chinese society is so low that I'm utterly amazed at finding Sinologists treating it with the same importance as Daoism or Buddhism.

 

[cmakk1012]

The Hui are still only about 3% of Chinese society, not really notable. The bulk of Chinese Islam is still only about 5%, and would be far less if it wasn't because of the swell in Chinese population in the 20th century and the intrusion by foreign Muslim missionaries (funded by the US allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan of course), while Islam's influence on Chinese society is so low that I'm utterly amazed at finding Sinologists treating it with the same importance as Daoism or Buddhism.

Fair enough. Well, I’d still be curious to see if Nestorians could ever be three percent of the population in the modern day.

 

[chornedsnorkack]

Kaifeng Jews were a community of perhaps a thousand souls.
But they were still there when Jesuits started nosing around China in end of 16th century.
Whereas Nestorians were completely gone.

What PoD could ensure that China was 0,01% Nestorian by 1600 - Nestorian communities in various cities, keeping contact with each other, having a bishop or several, and totalling say 10 000 or 20 000 souls, rather than completely vanished as in OTL?