WI: Austro-Italy

[Nivek]

Yes, that sound pretty weird, but looking for away, What we do need us to have an Austro-Italy(the Magyar can be a independent Kingdom in PU or with a Vassal Hansburg Prince) state with a POD of more late of The Napoleonic wars?

in fact the condiction is that the Empire will be similar to OTL Austro-Hungary, with the Austrians with the Cislethenian part, and the Italian Part, with the North and part of center of the peninsula(or all except with less part of piadmont like a French border zone)

i listen suggestion

 

[mailinutile2]

Yes, that sound pretty weird, but looking for away, What we do need us to have an Austro-Italy(the Magyar can be a independent Kingdom in PU or with a Vassal Hansburg Prince) state with a POD of more late of The Napoleonic wars?

in fact the condiction is that the Empire will be similar to OTL Austro-Hungary, with the Austrians with the Cislethenian part, and the Italian Part, with the North and part of center of the peninsula(or all except with less part of piadmont like a French border zone)

i listen suggestion

Just remove Naponeon

 

[Cook]

Just remove Naponeon

I think Giuseppe Garibaldi has to be given more than a little credit here.

 

[mailinutile2]

I think Giuseppe Garibaldi has to be given more than a little credit here.

Without Nappy, nationalist ideology would take another 50-60 years to affirm outside of france (at least), and even if some sort of italian confederation (federal! not unitary!) would be made, austria wold be involved (Lombardy, Tirol), and would have the lion's share in the distribution of power (Haupsburgh everywhere).
Probably Pidemont would not be considered part of italy at all, but a french vassal state, and Garibaldi (Nice-born) would be a french general like Massena

 

[Janprimus]

Without Nappy, nationalist ideology would take another 50-60 years to affirm outside of france (at least), and even if some sort of italian confederation (federal! not unitary!) would be made, austria wold be involved (Lombardy, Tirol), and would have the lion's share in the distribution of power (Haupsburgh everywhere).
Probably Pidemont would not be considered part of italy at all, but a french vassal state, and Garibaldi (Nice-born) would be a french general like Massena

Isn't Tirol Austrian? Obviously Austria controls other territories in Italy, like the kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia, but only the Trento part of Tirol (not the Bozen (Bolzano) area) could be considered Italian before 1918.

 

[mailinutile2]

Isn't Tirol Austrian? Obviously Austria controls other territories in Italy, like the kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia, but only the Trento part of Tirol (not the Bozen (Bolzano) area) could be considered Italian before 1918.

My point was that, since Austria controls territories in Italy (and an Hapsbourg is on the throne of the Holy Roman Empire), it would obviously be involved in it.
Regarding Tirol, you are right, and I should have typed southern south-tirol (since bozen is mainly german-speaking)
Regarding Lombardo-Veneto, without napoleon, Venice would be formally independent, thus Austria would have a clear claim only on milan.
On the other hand, I expect Austria to have some influence here, by marriage (Tuscany-like) or by sheer military pressure

 

[Hörnla]

1. I think that a general difference is that much of the Habsburg influence in Italy goes over sidelines, relatives of the Kaiser sitting on small to medium-sized thrones. In comparison, Austria-Hungary (and Croatia/Galizia/Bohemia etc. pp.) are easier because there we have a personal union.

2. I cannot see the Habsburg dynasty taking over the Pope's secular power in Central-Italy. Thus, the maximum I can imagine is a unification of Italy North of the Papal State with Sicily/Naples remaining independant and developing more of a distinct identity.

 

[Thande]

The Hapsburgs keep Naples and Sicily, which in OTL they had 1720-1734 but then lost in the War of the Polish Succession. Tuscany is also Hapsburg and you can imagine them getting Parma from Spain in one of the wars. Tuscany also had a Hapsburg ruler. Venice could become Austrian by a similar process to what happened in OTL, and then you just need to deal with the Pope and the House of Savoy really. The latter could perhaps be dealt with if the Austrians defeat them in a war and then make them swap Piedmont-Sardinia for another Austrian possession - how about Bavaria, if Austria had obtained it due to winning the War of the Bavarian Succession? Or even the Austrian Netherlands, that would be weird.

 

[mailinutile2]

The Hapsburgs keep Naples and Sicily, which in OTL they had 1720-1734 but then lost in the War of the Polish Succession. Tuscany is also Hapsburg and you can imagine them getting Parma from Spain in one of the wars. Tuscany also had a Hapsburg ruler. Venice could become Austrian by a similar process to what happened in OTL, and then you just need to deal with the Pope and the House of Savoy really. The latter could perhaps be dealt with if the Austrians defeat them in a war and then make them swap Piedmont-Sardinia for another Austrian possession - how about Bavaria, if Austria had obtained it due to winning the War of the Bavarian Succession? Or even the Austrian Netherlands, that would be weird.

Probably the safe course would be to buy France by accepting that Pidemont lays in the french sphere of influence, and pretending that is not part of Italy at all.
Wether the snail-eaters D) decide to formally annex it or to use it as a buffer state, it is their decision

 

[Nivek]

Good Fedback

Well, i read a lot of very interesting Question(both pre polish and Austrian Sucession War) and some more modern(i choose more late the Congress of Vienna, because that join a lot of Nothern Italy to the Hansburg realm, who the Piadmont-Sardina grab to Austria in the future anyway... but make more acessible), in General my idea(bug Eurofed but want a Information for a TL), want to the Hansburg looks with more interest West-central Europe than the Balkans(for that a semi-indepedant Hungary, but still the one who recive headache there), for that will annexed more italian principalities(at cost of piadmont), to later annex almost all the penninsula(the Papal States can join with bribery some special religious right by the catholics hansburg, except maybe piadmont, Sardina Island, and even i think Sicilia, some note there?), and with more interest in Italian Peninsula, they back down of the German confederation(recgonizes reluncately the Prussian Leadership in Support to won land in italy), and with have the Etnhical disparity and recgnozed the Italian like an Equal with the South German Hansburgs(aka Austrians)...

some more sugestion here, like an alternate victorian era??

 

[Mikestone8]

Best time is a century before Napoleon.

Let Emperor Charles VI die in 1714/15, before Maria Theresa is born. The throne then passes to his niece, Maria Josefa, elder daughter of his brother Joseph I. She is aged about 15 and still unmarried.

Iirc, Charles Emmanuel, Crown Prince of Piedmont/Sicily, was also still single at the time. If they marry, that gives Austria Piedmont/Savoy, Milan, Naples, Sicily and Sardinia, with reversionary claims to Parma and Tuscany when their current childless rulers die. So the House of Habsburg-Savoy rules everything except Venice, Genoa and the Papal States - and may well be the dominant influence even in these. This could butterfly away the Polish Succession War, as Austria will have the Alps as a defensible border, and of course the "Austrian Succession" issue will be long gone when Frederick the Great ascends the throne - though he may of course find some other excuse.