WI/AHC: A British Revolution in 1919

[Mynock]

I have been reading 1919: Britain's Year of Revolution by Simon Webb. Contrary to popular belief, Britain was deeply unstable following the First World War. Soldiers and sailors mutinied, winning victories in speeding up demobilisation and preventing support being sent to White Russia. In Glasgow, strikers clashed with the police in George Square. Tension flared between the Triple Alliance (an alliance representing miners, rail workers, dockers and other transport workers) and the British government, it got to the point where Lloyd George said to the leaders: “If you carry out your threat and strike, you will defeat us.” This spooked the Triple Alliance leaders, who were not prepared to take on the state in such a way. There was very real fear amongst the establishment of British Bolshevism. That's not even getting into Ireland.
I firmly believe the 1919 was the best chance for a left-wing uprising in the United Kingdom, much more so than the oft-cited General Strike. So the challenge is: make it happen.

 

[Sam R.]

Minority labour government before 1919. (State instability)

The Old and New Guard form emergency units in reaction to Labour government.

Strikes. White policing. Government falls. More strikes and counter strike action. New minority Labour government: better if reliant on Irish nationalist votes in an unresolved Ireland. (Greater instability)

Escalation during impotent government with partial capture of labour parliamentarians by radicalising movements.

Inability to resolve crisis with increasing delegitimisation of an impotent parliament?

 

[Wolf-Salami]

Minority labour government before 1919. (State instability)

The Old and New Guard form emergency units in reaction to Labour government.

Strikes. White policing. Government falls. More strikes and counter strike action. New minority Labour government: better if reliant on Irish nationalist votes in an unresolved Ireland. (Greater instability)

Escalation during impotent government with partial capture of labour parliamentarians by radicalising movements.

Inability to resolve crisis with increasing delegitimisation of an impotent parliament?

^This is the best way for Britain to become Communist imo

Communist Britain also has major geopolitical implications not only for the immediate situation with Europe, but the world at large.

The one the interests me the most would be Africa.

I imagine we would see Decolonisation happen a lot quicker ITTL, whether it's less, more, or the same level of chaos as OTL would have to be seen, especially so considering those in Colonial admin are more likely to be conservative / reactionary. Which I can only presume would make a lot of white settlers try to stand their ground against Natives and a Communist Britain.

Or (and more plausible / realistic) they all jump ship to colony's that are more receptive to their views & rules.

I imagine that ITTL we would see an Australia or South Africa that is a lot more conservative but also buffed as we see White Britons (both in the literal sense and the anti-communist sense) set up shop and crack down on dissent that could lead to another communist revolution.

Then there's also the question of what other Colonial powers would do?

Would Italy finally get it's claims and grow having the African empire they dream about?

Would France clean up West Africa under the guise of "Peacekeeping"?

And the possibilities when it comes to Native leaders are endless.

 

[Sam R.]

Australia’s ALP will be pushed further left by “see the Wobblies were right!” And by the white reaction in Australia.

 

[Mynock]

Minority labour government before 1919. (State instability)

The Old and New Guard form emergency units in reaction to Labour government.

Strikes. White policing. Government falls. More strikes and counter strike action. New minority Labour government: better if reliant on Irish nationalist votes in an unresolved Ireland. (Greater instability)

Escalation during impotent government with partial capture of labour parliamentarians by radicalising movements.

Inability to resolve crisis with increasing delegitimisation of an impotent parliament?

Its an interesting angle to go down, but it does beg the question of how Labour wind up in power in the first place. IMO if there is going to be a revolution it would have to happen in 1918-1919, it seems tricky to get a Labour minority in that time frame.

Australia’s ALP will be pushed further left by “see the Wobblies were right!” And by the white reaction in Australia.

I think interesting times would be ahead for any socialist parties in the Anglosphere, though I can't quite work out what that looks like.

^This is the best way for Britain to become Communist imo

Communist Britain also has major geopolitical implications not only for the immediate situation with Europe, but the world at large.

The one the interests me the most would be Africa.

I imagine we would see Decolonisation happen a lot quicker ITTL, whether it's less, more, or the same level of chaos as OTL would have to be seen, especially so considering those in Colonial admin are more likely to be conservative / reactionary. Which I can only presume would make a lot of white settlers try to stand their ground against Natives and a Communist Britain.

Or (and more plausible / realistic) they all jump ship to colony's that are more receptive to their views & rules.

I imagine that ITTL we would see an Australia or South Africa that is a lot more conservative but also buffed as we see White Britons (both in the literal sense and the anti-communist sense) set up shop and crack down on dissent that could lead to another communist revolution.

I think Brits living in Africa migrating en masse to South Africa is very possible. Interestingly increasing the number of British-descended South Africans would have pretty large ramifications for South African politics. Maybe in this world South Africa expands, it seems fairly easy to see South Rhodesia joining at least.

Then there's also the question of what other Colonial powers would do?

Would Italy finally get it's claims and grow having the African empire they dream about?

Would France clean up West Africa under the guise of "Peacekeeping"?

And the possibilities when it comes to Native leaders are endless.

I think there are a number of possibilities for the British Empire. I think a great deal depends on how the Empire is parcelled up, is there a conference or is it a scramble. I think Canada likely tries to pick up as much of the Western Hemisphere as possible, ditto for Australia+New Zealand in the Pacific and South Africa for, well, southern Africa. Iraq and Jordan probably go independent, maybe the French take Palestine or it could go to one or multiple of its neighbours. Cyprus may end up going for Enosis, I can see Italy going for Malta and Spain for Gibraltar. India (including Burma) will end up going independent in some form along with Ceylon/Sri Lanka. I could also see Malaya and Egypt (+ Sudan) winding up independent.

 

[Mynock]

Interestingly there may have been a plot from 1919 through 1920 hatched by Winston Churchill and Sir Henry Wilson, overall commander of the British Army, to replace Lloyd George on the basis of him being too friendly to "Bolshevism". If Lloyd George seems to be losing control of the country in 1919 I could see this being brought forward as a last ditch effort to stop the reds from taking over.

 

[walmart]

Interestingly increasing the number of British-descended South Africans would have pretty large ramifications for South African politics. Maybe in this world South Africa expands, it seems fairly easy to see South Rhodesia joining at least.

Another thing would be Anglos politically being more in line with nationalist party in regards to the black population.

 

[LoftonHenderson]

It seems plausible that if the war had dragged on longer, and/or there was an escalation in Ireland or India immediately following the delayed TTL armistice, that could have led to much worse domestic strife and possible collapse. I'm not sure if it would have realistically happened in 1919 though, but rather set the stage for another incident to kick it all off a few years later. I don't know if @TheReformer is still active but I believe he had some ideas about how a WW1 CP victory could – worst case – cause a revolution in Britain under some specific circumstances.

 

[Mynock]

Another thing would be Anglos politically being more in line with nationalist party in regards to the black population.

I would expect these British immigrants to back the South African Party of Jan Smuts. I don't think their likely "more British than the British" nostalgic attitude would work very will within the National Party. I also think Rhodesia could see amalgamation with South Africa after the 1922 referendum, which would also serve to weaken the National Party with another influx of proudly British voters. While these new South Africans would be staunchly anti-communist, interestingly South Africa may take a softer line on race issues without the predominance of the National Party.

It seems plausible that if the war had dragged on longer, and/or there was an escalation in Ireland or India immediately following the delayed TTL armistice, that could have led to much worse domestic strife and possible collapse. I'm not sure if it would have realistically happened in 1919 though, but rather set the stage for another incident to kick it all off a few years later. I don't know if @TheReformer is still active but I believe he had some ideas about how a WW1 CP victory could – worst case – cause a revolution in Britain under some specific circumstances.

It could happen later than 1919, I think the key is how unreliable the army were following the end of the Great War. If you can perpetuate that you might see a revolution in later years. This potent combination of an unreliable armed forces and aggressive strikers wouldn't be seen again.

 

[walmart]

I would expect these British immigrants to back the South African Party of Jan Smuts. I don't think their likely "more British than the British" nostalgic attitude would work very will within the National Party.

While these new South Africans would be staunchly anti-communist, interestingly South Africa may take a softer line on race issues without the predominance of the National Party.

I was referring to the nationalist party attitude towards the black population. I expect the British South Africans to be far more supportive of apartheid or a similar system due to a far right anti-communist stance.

 

[Mynock]

To further illustrate the instability in Britain in 1919 I'd like to draw upon a comment from @Catsmate in the thread AHC: Have a socialist revolution break out in Great Britain after WW1. As they said:

A few general points, give that some people seem grossly ignorant about the state of Britain in 1919.

OTL even after victory Britain came close to revolution in 1919. Troops, armoured cars, artillery, tanks and warships were widely deployed to maintain order. The view that the British military was monolithically loyal to the government is a superficial one that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There were numerous (illegal) military strikes and outright mutinies in 1918-19. Some examples:
1. In Purbright camp in early 1919 machine-gunners of the Guards went on strike
2. On 13NOV1918 Shoreham camp experienced a full-scale mutiny over conditions and the slow pace of demobilisation. The troops won and were released from service rapidly, by the thousand.
3. On 09DEC1918 Royal Artillery units in Le Havre rioted and burned down army depots.
4. January 1919 saw sustained and violent mutiny and rioting at the camps around Calais, including the election of a Soldiers’ Council at Valdelièvre (where the rebellious troops fortified the camp against attack. The military headquarters at Calais was occupied and a Soldiers’ and Sailors’ Association twenty thousand strong formed. The mutineers enjoyed extensive support of French civilians, including railway workers who refused to transport troops to suppress the nascent Calais Soviet. When Byng finally arrived to suppress the mutiny he found his troops unwilling to fire on their own.
5. A mutiny at Felixstowe saw over ten thousand men voted to form a Soldiers’ Union and refuse to obey orders until their demands were met.
6. At Kimmel Park camp over 15,000 Canadians rioted in early March 1919.
7. The period January-March 1919 saw a huge number of muties and "acts of disobedience to lawful authority" at Aldershot, Biggin Hill, Blackpool, Briston, Chatham, Dover, Fairlop, Folkestone, Grove Park, Kempton Park, Maidstone, Osterley Park, Park Royal, Shoreham, Shortlands, Southampton, Southwick, Westerham Hill and elsewhere.
8. In addition there were outbreaks of disobedience at several railway stations (mainly in London) where troops refused to embark for France and (especially) Russia.
9. The Royal Navy there were refusals to weigh anchor for Russia on numerous occasions in 1918-19 at Invergordon, Portsmouth, Rosyth, Devonport and Fort Edgar.
10. In February civilian workers at Rosyth discovered that the cruiser they were involved in refitting was to go to Russia; with members of the Socialist Labour Party they leafleted the crew, who refused to sail and were paid off after a three-week standoff in the port. This civilian resistance to intervention in Russia, suggests an active Labour/Union force available; for example in May 1920 dockers in the Port of London refused to Jolly George with an arms consignment for Poland.
11. Rosyth saw other mutinies, for example that on the mine-sweeper detachment in January 1919.
12. A few days later the patrol boat 'Kilbride' at Milford Haven mutinied and raised the Red Flag.
13. At Port Edgar a destroyed flotilla due to return to Russia was a hotbed of rebellion; eventually less than half the ships departed, with crews drawn from Atlantic fleet battleships. Some of the destroyers' crews evaded the security at the port and (with assistance from others) 44 men made their way to London to present petitions at Whitehall.
14. A Royal Marine battalion at Murmansk also mutined, with two companies refusing orders.

1919 saw active resistance to the British government in Scotland, parts of Wales, Ireland as well as cities like Liverpool.
1. Warships (including the battleship Valiant) were sent to Liverpool in a show of force, with orders to occupy the docks and be prepared to bombard the city.
2. Thousands of troops, with tanks and armoured cars in support, had been deployed "suppress disorder" in the streets of several cities. Including Liverpool
3. The "Battle of George Square" on 31JAN1919 occurred when Glasgow police attempted to suppress strikers. Churchill ordered soldiers and tanks to the city to prevent any further gatherings and to deter a "Bolshevik uprising. There were explicit parallels with the 'Forty Hours'. Scottish units were confined to barracks/camps under guard due to fear of mutiny and insurrection.
4. Over a thousand soldiers had marched under arms on Downing Street in early 1919, before being disarmed by a battalion of the Grenadier Guards loyal to the government.
5. Rioting in Luton had led to the arson of the town hall and further deployment to troops.

It seems to me that were there to be some sort of revolutionary violence in one part of Britain, there is potential for it to spread quickly as workers down tools rather than contribute to fighting their own and soldiers and sailors mutiny. The constant problem I run into examining this is finding that spark, an incident in OTL that could escalate to a full-on battle.

 

[Catsmate]

I am aware of this thread and will contribute, but I'm on my tab ATM.

 

[vizzer]

I'm not sure decolonisation would be quicker with a communist Britain as I'm not aware of any communist regime which willingly gave up any areas it controlled.
Although I am willing to be corrected on this if anyone has examples of such.

 

[walmart]

I'm not sure decolonisation would be quicker with a communist Britain as I'm not aware of any communist regime which willingly gave up any areas it controlled.
Although I am willing to be corrected on this if anyone has examples of such.

A communist Britain won’t have control of anything outside of the British isles.

 

[Mynock]

I'm not sure decolonisation would be quicker with a communist Britain as I'm not aware of any communist regime which willingly gave up any areas it controlled.
Although I am willing to be corrected on this if anyone has examples of such.

A communist Britain won’t have control of anything outside of the British isles.

I'd even go so far as to say it won't even fully control the British Isles. Ireland especially will be an interesting case, what do the unionists do without a United Kingdom?

 

[LoftonHenderson]

I'd even go so far as to say it won't even fully control the British Isles. Ireland especially will be an interesting case, what do the unionists do without a United Kingdom?

I wonder if a resurgent communist Britain would subjugate Ireland after sorting out its domestic strife at home. Either to ensure "national security" or get essentially a resource colony for food production

 

[Sam R.]

The workers Republic of Ireland is a constituent member of the Workers Commonweath…

 

[Catsmate]

The workers Republic of Ireland is a constituent member of the Workers Commonweath…

There is a negligible chance of Ireland going communist in 1919. There isn't a great deal of chance for such a state coming into being in the UK.

 

[Sam R.]

Consider Ukraine in the post-Imperial war in the east?

 

[Catsmate]

OK, a few observations. We've discussed this previously.
1. The main reasons for the lack of such a revolution historically are twofold; resistance, legal and illegal, by anti-revolutionary forces and the lack of actual organised will amongst those who did favour a significant change in government.
2. Just because a lot of workers and soldiers annoyed at the government and "Establishment" does not mean there will be a nation-wide revolution
3. This is not going to lead to a communist state; in 1919 there was no great support for such and there factor that allowed the Bolsheviks to seize power in Russia during the revolutions (organisation and determination) were lacking. I don't think @Mynock was suggesting such in his OP.
4. It would be wise to remember the Bolsheviks did not enjoy majority support in Russia, even amonst the left; the decapitated the leadership of a popular revolution and guided it down their chosen path. Cf France and Iran.
5. There is not going to be a minority Labour government in 1919, the factors that led to the Churchill wipout of 1945, dissatisfaction with Conservative governance and the desire for change. are not present to that degree. Also remember the franchise requirements were very different; the RotPA 1918 was the first extension of voting rights.

Its an interesting angle to go down, but it does beg the question of how Labour wind up in power in the first place. IMO if there is going to be a revolution it would have to happen in 1918-1919, it seems tricky to get a Labour minority in that time frame.

This is absolutely true.

So, to alter the events of 1919 there will need to be some changes. The obvious one is to worsen the effects of the Great War, even have a Central Powers victory. The problem with that, specifically in the context of a revolution in 1918-19, is that it's really unlikely that the CPs could win at so late a stage. But maybe something happens, no flood of US cannon fodder troops to save the day. A collapse of French morale, similar to the historical Aisne /Nivelle mutinies of 1917 and Pétain does something really stupid (not much of a stretch) and starts shooting people en masse rather than just the 26 he had killed historically. The French troops remain on the defensive but refuse to attack and actively resist efforts to quell the mutiny.
Now let's assume the Germans are less stupid and get wind of the mutiny. They take a risk and also go on the defensive, and move troops elsewhere.

The mutiny spreads to British troops, historically the mutiny at Étaples began in SEP1917. Let's assume that Haig and co, spooked by the problems with the French troops and aware of German troop movements, does something really stupid. Obviously Decisive Action is needed. Braithwaite will only be the first to die.
The New Zealanders are pissed off and when Healy is arrested they break him out. More MPs are sent and the 'scuffles' get bad, someone (an MP obviously) shoots into the crowd (this is historicaly BTW) and a riot starts. People are dead, mostly MPs. The troops arms themselves.

<stuff happens that I don't have the time to research in detail ATM>

The war ends. Some sort of negotiated peace, status quo ante bellum. There is massive unrest in Germany and France. The latter is heading for a revolution of its own.
British troops are still in camps ready to head home or to be demobilised. Rumours spread of British intervention in Russia, to aid the "Whites". This is wildly unpopular and the troops have a sense of victory after their 'victory' in the mutinies. The pace of demobilisation is slow, even slower than historically (and that lead to lots of problems) due to fears of revolution.
Trouble erupts all over the place; Purbright, Felixstowe, Shoreham, Kimmel Park, Calais, Le Havre, Aldershot, Biggin Hill, Blackpool, Bristol, Chatham, Dover, Fairlop, Folkestone, Grove Park, Kempton Park, Maidstone, Osterley Park, Park Royal, Shortlands, Southampton, Southwick, Westerham Hill and elsewhere.

The UK government is paralysed with fear; if the mutinous troops are allowed home and demobilised what will happen? But attempts to cowe or intimidate the troops fail and seemingly 'reliable' units, like the Guards, get involved. At home troops refuse to embark on trains and civilian workers, dockers and rail workers, get involved.
Socialist newspapers (e.g. the Workers' Weekly) start advocating soldiers and sailors councils and "If you must shoot, don't shoot the workers or each other". Prosecutions ofr sedition, seditious libel and incitement to mutiny result but fail when jurors refuse to convict.
Eventually the troops are demobilised en masse and shipped home.
The election of 1918 sees rather more communists, socialists and Labour MPs elected. In Ireland Sinn Féin gains a huge majority (probably the same as historically) and declares a Republic. The UKGov disagrees but has a bit of a problem doing anything, due to troop reliability and massive popular unrest at the idea. Various militias abound in Ireland, with some German support.
The also emerge in 'mainland' Britain, popularised by Pollard, Billing and, especially, Milner.
"I fear the time is very near at hand, when we will have to take some strong steps to stop the “rot” in this country, unless we wish to “follow Russia” into impotence & dissolution".
I'm sure people like Arrow will be involved.

Workers are busy demanding their rights and have lost faith in the ability of their 'betters' to govern. The failure of the war to, seemingly, achieve anything except millions dead and wounded, rankle with the ordinary people. Also the rest of the world senses British weakness and is interested.

The Matter of Ireland. ​

Most people who write about revolution in the period lack an understanding of the situation in Ireland. It is not comparable to the rest of Britain.
If, for example, you believe that the radicalisation of Irish politics after the Nine Days Insurrection (aka The Easter Rising) was due to the execution of the leadership of 'Sinn Féin' (I'm using the term loosely) then you are wrong, along with a lot of other people.
The main factor was the threatened imposition of conscription in 1917 which managed to unite just about everyone from the revolutionary fringe to the Church of Ireland in opposition. This lead to the 'German Plot' which was brilliantly used by Gay and Collins to decapitate the moderate leadership and place the radical, 'physical force Republicans' in control.
However most of the Irish revolutionaries are actually rather conservative, especially socially. There will not be a Communist state.
And historically the more radical elements of Irish Republicnism, e.g. Cumann na mBan, were sidelined after backing the anti-Treaty side in 1922.


Hopefully I'll have time to continue later.