What would Bonaparte's military career have looked like had the French Revolution been delayed or avoided?

AllthetTropesMan

Let's say Louis XVI is a more asserive and proactive monarch who clamps down on the excess privilege of the first two estates, all the while garnering a base of support by appealing to the salons as well as those who wish for a more Prussian style military structure. As a result, serious question over the status of the Bourbons remains unknown until the mid-nineteenth century when it has to face the industrialization efforts of the British and the Prussians. In the meantime, how does one Corsican soldier advance along an army rising in discipline and advanced military strategy?

Given Bonaparte will still have his ambition and his genius I can see him having a similar path as the Duke of Marlborough: fighting numerous campaigns on the European mainland, ecspecially across the German spheres of influence being contested between Austria and Prussia, while on the domestic front he becomes known for switching alliances based on what will gain him influence in the court and the Estates General as well as revolutionizing warfare away from Marlborough's fields of attacks towards styles that took in the increasing power of cannons.
 

Dragonboy

AllthetTropesMan said:
Let's say Louis XVI is a more asserive and proactive monarch who clamps down on the excess privilege of the first two estates, all the while garnering a base of support by appealing to the salons as well as those who wish for a more Prussian style military structure. As a result, serious question over the status of the Bourbons remains unknown until the mid-nineteenth century when it has to face the industrialization efforts of the British and the Prussians. In the meantime, how does one Corsican soldier advance along an army rising in discipline and advanced military strategy?

Given Bonaparte will still have his ambition and his genius I can see him having a similar path as the Duke of Marlborough: fighting numerous campaigns on the European mainland, ecspecially across the German spheres of influence being contested between Austria and Prussia, while on the domestic front he becomes known for switching alliances based on what will gain him influence in the court and the Estates General as well as revolutionizing warfare away from Marlborough's fields of attacks towards styles that took in the increasing power of cannons.
Click to expand...
Definitely can see him becoming a marshal and a Duke
 

AllthetTropesMan

Dragonboy said:
Definitely can see him becoming a marshal and a Duke
Click to expand...
The Duc du Buonaparte--I can see that certainly. Depending on the How Estates General changes in a world without the 1789 Revolution, it's also a possibility he form aliiances with the disgruntled third estate in the hopes that he could elevate his own power by taking on a popular cause. Even if this isn't the case, his knowledge of Roman law would still allow him the possibility of a noted political career in reformism (I think OTL shows he is much more capable at going between two fields than someone like Wellington.); one possible path is that he enters politics and begins the process of uniting French law, with this essentially being a slower process resulting in some aspects of Code Napoleon.
 

Dragonboy

AllthetTropesMan said:
The Duc du Buonaparte--I can see that certainly. Depending on the How Estates General changes in a world without the 1789 Revolution, it's also a possibility he form aliiances with the disgruntled third estate in the hopes that he could elevate his own power by taking on a popular cause. Even if this isn't the case, his knowledge of Roman law would still allow him the possibility of a noted political career in reformism (I think OTL shows he is much more capable at going between two fields than someone like Wellington.); one possible path is that he enters politics and begins the process of uniting French law, with this essentially being a slower process resulting in some aspects of Code Napoleon.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and i can totally see him propelling the carrers of his brothers too, and for a little irony i can see this loyal napoleon beign close friends with the Duke of wellington.
 

Valentinian

Jürgen said:
I have always liked the idea of Napoleon ending up in foreign service, maybe for the Bavarians or Saxons.
Click to expand...
IIRC, at one point he despaired so much in French service that he considered going to the Ottoman Empire.

Considering that the Ottomans had a tradition of converted Westerners rising high in its administration, I can what he could do as a military reformer. Grand Vizir Napoleon Bey anyone ( I know that wouldnt be his name, but hey)?
 

Jonah Carter

Napoleon wouldn't have had much of a future in a non-revolutionary French army. At the time, in order to be a high-ranking officer, you had to be from a pretty prominent noble family. Napoleon was a minor noble, of course, but men of his social status didn't become generals in those days. He was also a Corsican noble, and was thus often seen by his mainland counterparts as not quite of the French aristocracy.

This leaves a young Bonaparte with a few options. One, he can accept his lot in life as a junior artillery officer and try to make his name another way. He was a good student in mathematics (you had to be to become an artillery officer), so he could do what Carnot did and follow that. He was never a very successful author, but that seems to have been a major interest of his in his younger life, so that's a possiblity too. Second, as mentioned a few times here, he could go to a foreign army and offer his services. His problem in most of Europe would be the same as in France, only with the added issue of being from another country entirely. Given that, and given his orientalist leanings, I imagine he goes east. There's also the potential that he winds up on some sort of French general staff, which given his organizational ability I imagine would be a good fit for him.

AllthetTropesMan said:
The Duc du Buonaparte--I can see that certainly. Depending on the How Estates General changes in a world without the 1789 Revolution, it's also a possibility he form aliiances with the disgruntled third estate in the hopes that he could elevate his own power by taking on a popular cause. Even if this isn't the case, his knowledge of Roman law would still allow him the possibility of a noted political career in reformism (I think OTL shows he is much more capable at going between two fields than someone like Wellington.); one possible path is that he enters politics and begins the process of uniting French law, with this essentially being a slower process resulting in some aspects of Code Napoleon.
Click to expand...
I don't really think Napoleon had the sort of personality you would need to excel in a legislative body. He was an insular person, someone who wanted to be in a dominant position, who valued loyalty above all. He struggled with any pushback from legislators (see his uncharacteristic lethargy on 18 Brumaire), preferring them to just be his rubber stamp.
 

AllthetTropesMan

Valentinian said:
IIRC, at one point he despaired so much in French service that he considered going to the Ottoman Empire.

Considering that the Ottomans had a tradition of converted Westerners rising high in its administration, I can what he could do as a military reformer. Grand Vizir Napoleon Bey anyone ( I know that wouldnt be his name, but hey)?
Click to expand...
I never knew Napoleon once considered taking his immense talent to the service of the Turks; all I knew of his relation to them were his battles in Egypt. What wars though during this period would the Ottoman Empire give him to test his prowess? I suppose he could have fought with the British navy over the fate of Egypt as he is OTL. or in a twist of fate he could have become a villain in Balkan history by leading the suppression of any movements for self determination.
 
Jonathan Edelstein

Jonathan Edelstein

AllthetTropesMan said:
I never knew Napoleon once considered taking his immense talent to the service of the Turks; all I knew of his relation to them were his battles in Egypt. What wars though during this period would the Ottoman Empire give him to test his prowess? I suppose he could have fought with the British navy over the fate of Egypt as he is OTL. or in a twist of fate he could have become a villain in Balkan history by leading the suppression of any movements for self determination.
Click to expand...
It's hard to say what wars the Ottoman Empire would have fought if the French campaign in Egypt and Syria didn't happen, but provincial rebellions in Egypt, Greece, the Balkans and the Arabian peninsula were perennial, and so was war with Russia. Maybe he would have led Ottoman troops in some analogue of the 1806-12 Russo-Turkish war, the Wahhabi War, or if the cancer is butterflied, even the Greek war of independence (although he'd become a serious villain not only in the Balkans but throughout Christian Europe if so).
 

AllthetTropesMan

Jonah Carter said:
Napoleon wouldn't have had much of a future in a non-revolutionary French army. At the time, in order to be a high-ranking officer, you had to be from a pretty prominent noble family. Napoleon was a minor noble, of course, but men of his social status didn't become generals in those days. He was also a Corsican noble, and was thus often seen by his mainland counterparts as not quite of the French aristocracy.

This leaves a young Bonaparte with a few options. One, he can accept his lot in life as a junior artillery officer and try to make his name another way. He was a good student in mathematics (you had to be to become an artillery officer), so he could do what Carnot did and follow that. He was never a very successful author, but that seems to have been a major interest of his in his younger life, so that's a possiblity too. Second, as mentioned a few times here, he could go to a foreign army and offer his services. His problem in most of Europe would be the same as in France, only with the added issue of being from another country entirely. Given that, and given his orientalist leanings, I imagine he goes east. There's also the potential that he winds up on some sort of French general staff, which given his organizational ability I imagine would be a good fit for him.


I don't really think Napoleon had the sort of personality you would need to excel in a legislative body. He was an insular person, someone who wanted to be in a dominant position, who valued loyalty above all. He struggled with any pushback from legislators (see his uncharacteristic lethargy on 18 Brumaire), preferring them to just be his rubber stamp.
Click to expand...
You're not wrong about that last part; great men very often make for poor democrats due to their will to push ahead without legislative approval. More likely hewould have been an outside agitator from the military that was frequent in 19th century French politics. Assuming he does go east meanwhile, the national barriers in his way would mean he most likely serves as a commissioned officer to whatever state will take him in, then forges a career fighting numerous inter-European conflicts thoughout the center of the continent. If he decides to leave the military due ot lack of opportunity, we could see him at the early forefront of 19th century writing, given how he tried to emulate Goethe; if he succeeded his writing would mis Sturm und Drung with French sensitivity.
 

AllthetTropesMan

Jonathan Edelstein said:
It's hard to say what wars the Ottoman Empire would have fought if the French campaign in Egypt and Syria didn't happen, but provincial rebellions in Egypt, Greece, the Balkans and the Arabian peninsula were perennial, and so was war with Russia. Maybe he would have led Ottoman troops in some analogue of the 1806-12 Russo-Turkish war, the Wahhabi War, or if the cancer is butterflied, even the Greek war of independence (although he'd become a serious villain not only in the Balkans but throughout Christian Europe if so).
Click to expand...
What also would be interesting to see would be how Bonaparte would interact with Selim III--OTL, both men were autocrats who were nonetheless heavily committed to internal reform and the proliferation of culture in a similar manner to the enlightened despots of pre-revolutionary Europe.
 

Bones101

I need an alt history where Napoleon gets scouted by/ goes to work for Joseph II or Leopold II(I believe the Habsburgs, and especially Joseph II at this time were more willing to promote based on skills over rank, Joseph once asked the head of the army(or some other high ranking official I can't remember) why had a high position although they never served in the army before, so he would definitely promote Nappy). Prince Eugene part 2 timeline.
Valentinian said:
IIRC, at one point he despaired so much in French service that he considered going to the Ottoman Empire.

Considering that the Ottomans had a tradition of converted Westerners rising high in its administration, I can what he could do as a military reformer. Grand Vizir Napoleon Bey anyone ( I know that wouldnt be his name, but hey)?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
BELFAST

BELFAST

Depends on how willing the French are to promote an officer that is not an aristocrat. Given his background, I do not think he would get much promotion in France with the revolution.
 

pjmidd

Napoleon did not have a powerful sponsor or family. His rise in OTL was due to being in the right place at the right time ( siege of Toulon ) and getting noticed. Without that, he just never gets to command a large force ( artillery officers, like engineers tended to be seen as support and kept in their specialty ). Likely if peace continues he is off to foreign service, but whilst he will rise higher, he is likely not to be given a major command anything like as quickly as OTL.
We also have the problem that a lot of his OTL tactics do not fit with possible employers. The French revolutionary army had a totally different mindset to the other armies of the time. Advocating say, living off the land, for instance, is not going to be a promotion winning position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top