What are effect survival of ottoman empire on world war 2

[NATO1949]

The pod is neutral ottoman empire in world war 1. Lenin get to power in Russia in 1917 and wwI end pretty same in 1918 with Versailles treaty. Ottoman capture Caucasian mountain and oilfields of Grozny and Maikop and Baku.
first what happen to a Persian corridor of lend lease
second what happen with German operation blue.
Third what are reactions of Hitler and Stalin to ottoman empire.

 

[Lalli]

Wouldn't lack of Ottoman participation change WW1 quiet much? War might end earlier when Brits and Russians have not involve with Ottomans. Perhaps so early that there is not revolution in RUssia and French might not be so intrested to give so harsh peace terms as in OTL.

 

[NATO1949]

Russian November revolution happen in Nov 1917 and world war one end in Nov 1918.
War well last more than three years ontil Soviet capture of Russia . Peace will happen in early 1918 instead of late 1918

 

[naraic]

Well I can't really see Russia collapsing if they manage to avoid the Caucaus and Persian campaigns and the allies can trade through the Black Sea.

 

[Lalli]

I can't see war lasting even to 1917 when Brits and Russians have not fight with Ottomans. There would be surely millions men more sending against Germany and Austro-Hungary. Might be that this would too affect to Bulgaria and Greece. Would they join without Ottomans?

 

[Governer-General]

Too many butterflies.
Ottoman neutrality means CP collapse in 1916. So no Weimar Germany, No Soviet Union, No Nazis, no WW2 as we know.

 

[Deleted member 9338]

I can't see war lasting even to 1917 when Brits and Russians have not fight with Ottomans. There would be surely millions men more sending against Germany and Austro-Hungary. Might be that this would too affect to Bulgaria and Greece. Would they join without Ottomans?

There is almost no reason for Bulgaria to join if the Ottoman Empire stays neutral

 

[raharris1973]

There is almost no reason for Bulgaria to join if the Ottoman Empire stays neutral

Disagree- there's Macedonia. There's also southern Dobruja. Bulgaria can risk this *IF* they can be certain Ottomans will stay neutral, rather than join Entente.

What about if the Bulgarians capture Constantinople in 1913, Russians, Romanians, Serbs and Greeks go to war with the Bulgarians. Austrians and then Germans immediately come in on Bulgarian side.

Ottomans are by default on the Entente side. So yes, this basic fact is an advantage to the Entente. But, perhaps the straits remain closed to shipping for the whole war because the Bulgarians with CP reinforcement hold Thrace and the European side of the straits and threaten shipping through the straights with giant Austrian field artillery. Thus, if lack of usable straits was the main, decisive detriment of a hostile Turkey for Russia and the Entente in OTL, the closed straits remain a factor in the ATL.

 

[naraic]

Disagree- there's Macedonia. There's also southern Dobruja. Bulgaria can risk this *IF* they can be certain Ottomans will stay neutral, rather than join Entente.

What about if the Bulgarians capture Constantinople in 1913, Russians, Romanians, Serbs and Greeks go to war with the Bulgarians. Austrians and then Germans immediately come in on Bulgarian side.

Ottomans are by default on the Entente side. So yes, this basic fact is an advantage to the Entente. But, perhaps the straits remain closed to shipping for the whole war because the Bulgarians with CP reinforcement hold Thrace and the European side of the straits and threaten shipping through the straights with giant Austrian field artillery. Thus, if lack of usable straits was the main, decisive detriment of a hostile Turkey for Russia and the Entente in OTL, the closed straits remain a factor in the ATL.

There's also the fact that Russia and Britain had large armies deployed against the Ottomans for a large portion of the war.

Freeing up the Russian army is a noticeable benefit, freeing up the British army is a noticeable benefit. Opening the straits to trade is a noticeable benefit. Ottomans staying out is 3 noticeable benefits.

If you put the Ottomans on the Entente side along with early entry from the Greeks and Romanians you have another three noticeable benefits.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

There's also the fact that Russia and Britain had large armies deployed against the Ottomans for a large portion of the war.

Freeing up the Russian army is a noticeable benefit, freeing up the British army is a noticeable benefit. Opening the straits to trade is a noticeable benefit. Ottomans staying out is 3 noticeable benefits.

If you put the Ottomans on the Entente side along with early entry from the Greeks and Romanians you have another three noticeable benefits.

That's assuming Greece is willing to fight on the same side as the Ottomans: a tough sell. It's quite possible you'd see a CP or at least neutral Greece in these circumstances.

Romania backed with the Ottomans though could squash Bulgaria like.a bug and open up a route to support Serbia fairly early on. Along with Romania throwing Austria off balance earlier on, and you possibly save the Serbian military: providing you with a different but still third advantage.