Maybe this was already discussed in older threads, but I couldn't find them. IOTL the inheritance of Louis I of Hungary and Poland was divided between his two daughters, Mary (who got Hungary) and Hedwig (who got Poland), not without a lot of political intrigue and conflict with other claimants. However, Louis had an older daughter, Catherine, that died as a child (when her younger sisters were already born). At the time of her death she was betrothed to Louis, Duke of Orleans, a son of Charles V of France. So, WI she had lived to adulthood as her sisters? How would it affect the division of the inheritance of Louis I? And, if Louis of Orleans is far away in Hungary or Poland, how could it change the political environment in France at the time?
The three daughters of Louis I of Hungary and Poland live to adulthood
- Thread starter Gonzaga
- Start date
From my understanding of it, Katherine would've got the whole shebang. It was only once she died that the decision was taken to split the realms. And originally, Marie was supposed to get Poland (hence why she was married to the margrave of Brandenburg), but the Sejm (or whoever) decided "nope, we'll go with her little sister" and reversed the idea.
A surviving Katherine might see Marie/Hedwig marry differently (or at least Hedwig would), than OTL (best match for one would be to Ladislaus of Naples). If we've got an Orléans Hungary, with the prospect of a lasting Angevin Naples, it could have some pretty big ripples.
I'm not sure how it would change things in France. Maybe @Zulfurium and others more knowledgeable on the 100YW would know. All I can think is that without Valentina Visconti, there's no perpetual French questing after Milan, and with an Angevin Naples, no going after that crown either (unless somehow the Visconti still go extinct, and somehow Valentina's senior most line marries into the Valois; same with Angevin Naples).
A surviving Katherine might see Marie/Hedwig marry differently (or at least Hedwig would), than OTL (best match for one would be to Ladislaus of Naples). If we've got an Orléans Hungary, with the prospect of a lasting Angevin Naples, it could have some pretty big ripples.
I'm not sure how it would change things in France. Maybe @Zulfurium and others more knowledgeable on the 100YW would know. All I can think is that without Valentina Visconti, there's no perpetual French questing after Milan, and with an Angevin Naples, no going after that crown either (unless somehow the Visconti still go extinct, and somehow Valentina's senior most line marries into the Valois; same with Angevin Naples).
Still, Luxembourg Bohemia is close, Valois France is far away. Queen Mother may decide, that Sigismund is better for her oldest daughter than Louis. IOTL Hedwig and Mary have not married like their daddy wished, so it should not be surprise.
Who did daddy wish for either? I'm genuinely curious, since I was under the impression that besides the duc d'Orléans and Sigmund were the only real options. Jogaila being a rather long odd
My mistake, Mary married like daddy wished, but get wrong crown. Once Louis is death his will is not guaranteed to be materialised, especially with Charles of Durazzo around.
There are a number of different things that need to be considered if Catherine lives.
First of all, you need to understand why the Poles decided to split the inheritance rather than allowing Marie to inherit the entire Angevin Empire. At the heart of this decision was a fierce wish from the upper nobility to end the union between Hungary and Poland, which the Poles viewed as highly damaging to their own prosperity - specifically linked to the fact that and Angevin Empire would undoubtedly be ruled from Buda. As such, I think that even if Catherine is alive, you are likely to see a large number of intrigues and uprisings seeking to break this bond - or at the very least the threat of a breakup by the Poles. Poland will be extremely difficult to hold onto for Catherine and whoever is matched with her.
At the same time, Hungary and the Angevin inheritance as a whole enters an immensely complex and bloody period of infighting the moment Lajos the Great dies without male heirs because it opens up the question of succession. IOTL the Lajosan branch of the Angevins won out in this contest - partly because the Neapolitan branch were stabbed in the back by the Valois-Anjou at around the same time. However, this could quite easily be overturned. The Hungarians, and particularly the Croatians, were extremely leery of a female ruler actually holding power and as such Catherine is likely to experience significant resistance to her rule. This, if anything, would be what forces Catherine to dump Louis d'Orleans for Sigismund - but even IOTL there was a great deal of resistance to the match with Sigismund because of fears that the Bohemians would come to dominate the Hungarian court.
All that said, lets say that Catherine is able to stay on her throne long enough to get the aid of Louis d'Orleans and they secure both Poland and Hungary. Now the question becomes whether the Hungarian Royals contest the Neapolitan throne - possibly setting up for an interesting three-way contest between the Valois-Anjou, Valois-Orléans and the Neapolitan Anjou.
At the same time, the removal of Louis d'Orléan from the French political scene might well be the most important change. With Louis away, Charles the Mad will have to rely on his ambitious uncles, in-laws and wife during the numerous regencies of his reign. This could well fuel an early version of the civil strife encountered in the first decade of the 1400s between the royal uncles - though it is just as likely that Philipp the Bold or Jean de Berry end up securing control of the regency. Expect far larger noble estates and an even weaker central, royal power.
I really can't predict what would happen in greater detail on just this basis, but I do think that this could be an incredibly fascinating PoD.
First of all, you need to understand why the Poles decided to split the inheritance rather than allowing Marie to inherit the entire Angevin Empire. At the heart of this decision was a fierce wish from the upper nobility to end the union between Hungary and Poland, which the Poles viewed as highly damaging to their own prosperity - specifically linked to the fact that and Angevin Empire would undoubtedly be ruled from Buda. As such, I think that even if Catherine is alive, you are likely to see a large number of intrigues and uprisings seeking to break this bond - or at the very least the threat of a breakup by the Poles. Poland will be extremely difficult to hold onto for Catherine and whoever is matched with her.
At the same time, Hungary and the Angevin inheritance as a whole enters an immensely complex and bloody period of infighting the moment Lajos the Great dies without male heirs because it opens up the question of succession. IOTL the Lajosan branch of the Angevins won out in this contest - partly because the Neapolitan branch were stabbed in the back by the Valois-Anjou at around the same time. However, this could quite easily be overturned. The Hungarians, and particularly the Croatians, were extremely leery of a female ruler actually holding power and as such Catherine is likely to experience significant resistance to her rule. This, if anything, would be what forces Catherine to dump Louis d'Orleans for Sigismund - but even IOTL there was a great deal of resistance to the match with Sigismund because of fears that the Bohemians would come to dominate the Hungarian court.
All that said, lets say that Catherine is able to stay on her throne long enough to get the aid of Louis d'Orleans and they secure both Poland and Hungary. Now the question becomes whether the Hungarian Royals contest the Neapolitan throne - possibly setting up for an interesting three-way contest between the Valois-Anjou, Valois-Orléans and the Neapolitan Anjou.
At the same time, the removal of Louis d'Orléan from the French political scene might well be the most important change. With Louis away, Charles the Mad will have to rely on his ambitious uncles, in-laws and wife during the numerous regencies of his reign. This could well fuel an early version of the civil strife encountered in the first decade of the 1400s between the royal uncles - though it is just as likely that Philipp the Bold or Jean de Berry end up securing control of the regency. Expect far larger noble estates and an even weaker central, royal power.
I really can't predict what would happen in greater detail on just this basis, but I do think that this could be an incredibly fascinating PoD.