Given that he made it livable it could be done (He had golf courses on there!)I would have thought Scarpa Flow
But Jutland sounds better
The Great War at Sea ... Take 13
- Thread starter Perky50
- Start date
I would have thought Scarpa Flow
But Jutland sounds better
Scapa Flow was his title OTL. There was a tradition of titles being based on the location of battles, Baron Nelson of the Nile, Earl St Vincent etc.
Thinking about it given the magnitude of the victory I wonder if Jellicoe would have been made a Duke like Marlborough and Wellington.
HMS Jellicoe & HMS Craddock. 3 X 3 16" guns, top speed, 30 knots, recommissioned in the 1980s.
Given he delivered in this TL, he's going to be seen as another Nelson, or someone close. So its possible.
*** Interlude ***
okay ... going to get border line 'C'word here (conspiracy ... the bad one)
here's a project for ya!
Who made the shells and propellants for the RN, and could they be tied to Beatty?
Why did Geddes sort out quality, supply and transportation issues for the army in France, but do nothing similar for the navy? Yet when Jellicoe was removed, he was parachuted into Jellicoe's place?
Why would Arbuthnot kill fewer of his command than Beatty and the world goes 'tsk, tsk'?
Yet Beatty kills more and he's a naval genius???
You know, everyone talks about the great Japanese assassins, Samauri's ninjas ... they will get you for sure.
... however, Yamamoto would evade them by going to sea.
that business ninja's might be way better I'm thinking, because Jellicoe went to sea, and they still got him.
the trick to seeing this comparison is how both society's see honour
the eastern society rooted in blood, and the western side rooted in reputation
sorry ... this is very disjointed, and border line "you should really get help' ... but some times things make a body wonder ...
... and I'd make Jellicoe the King of frigging Siam if I could ...
Re the surviving 13.5 BC's i'd still say retain them, but retire when the new builds come into play. The Tiger could be retained as a training/gunnery ship but the Lion and Princess Royal (and assuming she's repaired which basically she would be, the Queen Mary) could probably serve with minor upgrades until the early 30's.
A great update Perky, it gave us a rundown of what's lost. And basically the German navy has been wiped out. What the Admiralty might want to do now is start either taking the 12-inch gunned ships (save the I's as they proved oddly useful, but that was in their INTENDED role) out of service to free up their crews for DD/CL's or putting them in out of the way stations as there's simply no need for them any more owing to the massive material superiority the RN has.
Post war all remaining 12-inch gunned ships simply need to go to the breakers, but perhaps with France being a bit wobbly and learning a French version of this.
Then perhaps some 12-inch guns could find their way onto emplacements on the south coast and round naval bases. Same with 13.5 inch guns on Gibraltar and Malta for example.
As I said, get rid of everything 13.5 inch armed that's not an iron duke class, keep the Lions for as long as you can with minimal upgrades whilst giving the Tiger a more comprehensive overhaul. I'd also keep the Canada and Eagle, but give them to Canada and Australia respectively, perhaps give Tiger to New Zealand to replace their lost BC's.
A great update Perky, it gave us a rundown of what's lost. And basically the German navy has been wiped out. What the Admiralty might want to do now is start either taking the 12-inch gunned ships (save the I's as they proved oddly useful, but that was in their INTENDED role) out of service to free up their crews for DD/CL's or putting them in out of the way stations as there's simply no need for them any more owing to the massive material superiority the RN has.
Post war all remaining 12-inch gunned ships simply need to go to the breakers, but perhaps with France being a bit wobbly and learning a French version of this.
Then perhaps some 12-inch guns could find their way onto emplacements on the south coast and round naval bases. Same with 13.5 inch guns on Gibraltar and Malta for example.
As I said, get rid of everything 13.5 inch armed that's not an iron duke class, keep the Lions for as long as you can with minimal upgrades whilst giving the Tiger a more comprehensive overhaul. I'd also keep the Canada and Eagle, but give them to Canada and Australia respectively, perhaps give Tiger to New Zealand to replace their lost BC's.
To see the results of Big Ships with small nations, one only has to look at the South American countries and what percentages of their national budgets would go toward supporting those ships, and even with that large sum of national fiscal resource, the rather poor position they would be kept in. New Zealand did the right thing historically, they bought the ship and then gave it to the RN. Australia got off the hook thanks to the naval treaties. Canada managed to avoid the issue all together by refusing to play in the first place.
All three of these nations do need to find a way to provide a navy that works for them, but in my humble opinion, the fiscal reality of all three of these nations naval budgets and operational criteria, does not include dreadnought types. All three nations need multi role assets that can comfortably cover patrol, anti raider, light attack, escort and ASW duties. Leave the shot gun for gramma ... she'll get right on over if the fox gets in the hen house.
Cruisers, destroyers, escort types, MTB's and small aircraft carrier ... maybe a few submarines in the mix for Oz and the Canucks ... a division or two of destroyers for the Kiwi's, that could work with the Australians ... in my way of thinking a much better fit. These big dominions would be there to keep their home waters safe initially, safe in the knowledge that the might of the empire is there when needed.
All three of these nations do need to find a way to provide a navy that works for them, but in my humble opinion, the fiscal reality of all three of these nations naval budgets and operational criteria, does not include dreadnought types. All three nations need multi role assets that can comfortably cover patrol, anti raider, light attack, escort and ASW duties. Leave the shot gun for gramma ... she'll get right on over if the fox gets in the hen house.
Cruisers, destroyers, escort types, MTB's and small aircraft carrier ... maybe a few submarines in the mix for Oz and the Canucks ... a division or two of destroyers for the Kiwi's, that could work with the Australians ... in my way of thinking a much better fit. These big dominions would be there to keep their home waters safe initially, safe in the knowledge that the might of the empire is there when needed.
I agree, given the original building program I can see Jellicoe pushing for them to support in small ships so the home nation can make the BB's to avoid the issue with lack of DD's that was available at the wars beginning.
Just caught up .Just missed getting off at my station !
There's the power of a good story.
Nice twist on the "Geddes
Axe"
Good to see Admiral Jellicoe getting the recognition that he deserves.
Quite moving about HMS Tiger coming home.
Note to self - don't read Perky50's updates on the commute home.
The other commuters in the same carriage must be worried
Seeing someone laughing , tearing up and humming "Hearts of Oak" at the same time.
Keep up the good work !
There's the power of a good story.
Nice twist on the "Geddes
Axe"
Good to see Admiral Jellicoe getting the recognition that he deserves.
Quite moving about HMS Tiger coming home.
Note to self - don't read Perky50's updates on the commute home.
The other commuters in the same carriage must be worried
Seeing someone laughing , tearing up and humming "Hearts of Oak" at the same time.
Keep up the good work !
Beatty had friends in high places, the King, Winston, the establishment - he was one of them.
Jellicoe was not...yet 300 admirals from 80 nations attended his funeral! Proof that the Navy being a far greater Meritocracy than the British Society it served ever was.
As for Geddes - I suspect that he was not involved in the Navy side of things (initially) as the logististics and necessary industry and transport etc for the Navy was already well established while the infrastructure for British Army in N.France and Belgium had to be built from scratch.
Geddes, a good enough expert on the construction and operation of both light and standard railways, and someone with the right connections - got the job by 'happy' accident when visiting Haig to discuss the supply situation for a day or so in Aug 1916 ended up spending a month with the field martial reorganising and organising the logistical network.
From what I know about the man he was a real go getter and possessed great energy and drive along with skill sets and knowledge that was 'portable' for the jobs he was given despite his lack of knowledge for either the Army or the Navy.
Further proof of Lloyd George's evil, Geddes should've never been put where he was but with training he could've made a real difference. Heck I wouldnt be surprised if there was one TL where he saw barrels or 'tanks' and realized their weight would only increase and manage to increase the British Rail Grades.
While the injuries to Prince Albert were sufficient to set him out for convalescent leave, He would not be in need of care that would demand the type of care provided by the great hospitals of the day. As a result, he would be gathered in by Queen Mary, and packed off to Balmoral to return to better health under her watchful eye.
It was here on June 6th, 1916, while just settling jangled nerves after the wounding of her second son, that the Queen would receive her most devastating news of the war, her first born son Edward, Prince of Wales, had been struck down in battle during Haig’s offensive. Prince Edward, spurred on by his younger brother’s action at Jutland, had defied orders and went over the top with his beloved Grenadier Guards.
In the small shattered courtyard of a nameless Belgian farm, the Prince had been leading his men forward when they had been caught hit by a local counter attack, by a company from a Bavarian regiment. As he had tried to rally his men to him to throw back the assault, the Germans had burst through their ranks and a confused melee of pistol, bayonet, and digging spade broke out. Even as his men were regaining the initiative, a German bayonet would find him, plunging deep into his back, and piercing his heart with its killing blow.
“With cries of ‘See to the Prince!”, his men would steel their nerve, and in a burst of fury, set upon their foe as great tiger would claw down it’s prey. The savagery of their assault would cause their enemy pause, a pause that would prove fatal for these Germans. These stalwart grenadier guards, from closed rank like a buttress round their fallen prince, would lash out, giving no quarter, and expecting none in return. They would stand on to their foe, and coldly slaughter all before them.
As their brethren on the flanks joined them, their attack carried on, and with callous disregard for their own concerns they carried the foe in a manner seldom seen before. As one weeping survivor, his own wounds sobbing their own red tears of pain, would relate after the fight, “That they had struck down our prince, it was the darkest of truths, that great man felled by a bayonet from behind. But we would deliver up all hell’s fury on them, a great roaring ballad of black oath broke forth as we went into them. With a bayonet for every belly, a bullet for every brow, we struck hard and true, and none of these fools would survive to leave the field.”
from – “As Sons serve the Father – The Royal Princes in the Great War”
---0---
The Royal House would be shaken to its core, Queen Mary herself nearly inconsolable in her loss initially, yet Albert’s presence would ease her through, and with the support of the country and empire with them as well, The Royals would weather this crisis and indeed build great strength from it, that would carry them proudly forward into the new century, in a new lockstep with their subjects, now better attuned by way of their common family losses.
That the Royals were seen as bearing the burdens of the common folk would be held close throughout the empire, would be further reinforced some weeks later. The Royal Family had returned to Balmoral in the days following the funeral of Prince Edward, for a time of quiet and reflection on the harsh events of late. While she would keep her other children close about her in those days, she had a restlessness and longing she could not explain. After some days she would announce her desire to travel into Edinburgh in company with a few of her ladies, for an unspecified reason.
With little fanfare, Queen Mary and her small party would arrive unannounced at an Edinburgh military hospital, some days after the funeral of Prince Edward.
“I was about my duties, bringing in the fresh linens, when the door to the ward would open, and I was confronted by the presence of Queen Mary herself! In a bungled attempt to suppress my shock while at the same time deliver an acceptable curtsey, I very nearly collapse in a very untoward heap. Our head matron, Sister Anne, always had a knack for being where she was best needed, and in this case, it was no different as she deftly caught my fall, while greeting the Queen in a more appropriate manner. That was the good thing about Sister Anne, she always knew the proper thing to do.”
From “On the Dark Watch – Notes from the Nursing Sisters at War
by Roberta Milloy
After the exchange of formalities, and scooting onlookers back to their duties with a quick stern glare, Matron Anne Hamilton would ask as to how she might help Her Highness. Queen Mary would simply look back at her, and with a wisp of a small sad smile respond:
“I apoligise for my intrusion on your ward, Matron, but as you know this foul war we face has recently claimed one of my own. That many of these fine men lay here far from the mother’s care, I thought it might be a worthwhile effort on my part to fend of my own grief by standing in for mothers unable to see to their sons here. If you would be so kind to let me pass.”
-Queen Mary
- As Sons serve their Father – The Royal Princes in the Great War”
Matron Anne Hamilton would let her pass, and the Queen would walk into the great hall of the ward, her black lashes of mourning in sharp contrast to the stark white tones of the ward. She would move slowly down the aisle between the rows of beds, looking out at the surprised stares peering back at her.
A short distance in a shaky hand touched a brow, followed by a quiet, mumbled greeting to Queen Mary, and the Queen, taking his lead, would step toward his cot. Queen Mary would note the well bandaged stump of a leg, before looking down on him, greeting him as she involuntarily touched his tossled hair.
He would ask the Queen a boon, that she might passage a message of thanks to ‘Mr. Johnson’, for it was he who had dragged him to safety that fateful day.
“Cor, what a sight it was then, our great Queen Mary, settling onto the edge of his wee bed, with a smile and a tear, she would nod her head, and then they talked. The ward came back to life, but with a feeling of something new as the Queen and her ladies would see to all there. It was a special kind of magic that I saw in that place, like Christmas, mayhaps even better.
A mother for all she was, a mother for all.”
-“On the Dark Watch – Notes from the Nursing Sisters at War”
By Roberta Milloy
With this act, Queen Mary, so long seen as the quiet yet stern and somehow distant wife of King George V, would set forth on a life long passionate mission to see to the needs of the empires fighting men. Starting first with the wounded in such places as the ward she first visited, her vision would expand through all aspects of veteran’s care. It would be a labour of love for her people that would be passed on to her daughter-in-law in due time, and to her granddaughter after that.
Beginning with this small act of dealing with her grief, it would grow into the strongest of bonds between the Royal house of Great Britain and those who served it so well.
---0---
In that same period of time, Father and Son would talk at great lengths, discussing many matters, as now Prince Albert would assume his brother’s station and follow his Father onto the throne somewhere in the future. In their conversations His father would tell him that he would, in the near future, granting him the new style, ‘Prince of Wales’, as in taking on his brother’s mantle of lineage, he should rightfully hold that style as well.
For possibly the first time in his life, Prince Albert would go counter to his father’s wishes, stating that out of respect to his fallen brother, while he would accept all other titles, he would prefer not to assume that role. His father would agree to that, instead styling him ‘Duke of York’.
Further conversation would lead to not only his own coming award for Bravery in battle, but the same one posthumously for his brother. From this another discussion would be born out, one of large impact for the future. While Albert had no argument with his brother’s award, he felt that his own was somewhat overblown, due simply to his royal blood. While he would get his, there was a member of his turret crew that would receive no recognition for an act of much more significant action.
At his Father’s behest, he would relate the story of an ordinary rating, Edmund Magwood. Magwood, an oversized and powerful man, had the reputation for being somewhat of a malcontent and bully. Regularly on report, and not missing an opportunity to annoy those about him, he was not the sort to become chummy with for most. However, he was loyal to a tee when it came to his fellows, and on the fateful day when Albert dragged his companion from that shattered turret, Magwood was on the far side of the hood. As he made his way clear, he would pull two men with him, then return for a third. He had received no mention anywhere regarding these efforts, except from his mates.
Prince Edward knew, as did the king, that there would be many awards from the battle handed out to those of position would receive an honor for no better reason than simply being in the vicinity of the action, while common sailors like Magwood would see nothing for their great efforts in times of need.
King George V would simply nod, and tell his son he would look into the matter.
---0---
Through out the war King George V would enjoy his short respites to visit with his cousin and Friend Admiral Battenburg. It was in one of these conversations not long after Prince Edward had been laid to rest that the King would relate Prince Albert’s story of Magwood, and inquired with the First Sea Lord if he might ask into it. Battenburg would state that he would be more than happy to make inquiries on the matter.
---0---
In the same period of time, Jellicoe and Madden were making their way back to Rosyth, after a series of meetings and consultations at the Admiralty. On the trip back, Madden would relate his meeting with Admiral Levesen’s widow, with whom both wives of the men present were acquainted. Madden would assure Jellicoe that he had passed on his condolences as well, and that she had received his letter, and was very appreciative of it.
As the train went on, both men would relate their personal feelings on the battle and its results, before turning to the men who had served the fleet so well, yet through their actions had met their end. The conversation would finally come to rear Admiral David Beatty.
“That he was a character would be an understatement, with his unusual manner of dress, and his mastery of society’s social scene, it’s a wonder he had time for his duties, but you know he did, and in his heart he was every inch the sailor. We would have our disagreements you know about that. He could be a challenge to command.
Driven like a storm’s wind, and tenacious as a bulldog, he would never let off. He had the temperment of an alley fighter, never missing the opportunity to run in with his blade, always seeking the opportunity to strike, no matter the cost.
He had a style and panache about him that most other officers would lack, yet I wonder with some study, that those outward effects of his personality might well have shielded his imperfections from view. To be truthful dash may well cover a reckless approach, while style can indeed mask the inability to fulfill orders as planned, if one wants to take a more negative view on matters.
There will comparisons between the two battle cruiser commanders of Heligoland and Jutland, and as with all historical reference, the presentation will be dependent on the bias of the offer. That is the intrigue of history, every man a hero, and at the same time a villain ... it just depends on the biographer's pallette.
Out of the two, Beatty and Cradock, who was my choice? That both these officers had their ways was without question. However, that I had with me at Jutland Admiral Cradock, I will never regret. Out of all who served with me during the Great War, He would be my finest subordinate."
Admiral John Jellicoe
---0--- ---0---
In the days following the battle, much time and thought would be expended in the Admiralty sorting out not only the final results of the battle, but also just which direction the Royal Navy should be setting course for, not only in such basic things as repairs and construction of new units, but in tactical dispositions and strategic deployments as well. When bringing in the understanding that with the destruction of the bulk of the High Seas Fleet, the Grand Fleet had for all purposes, put itself out of work in that particular area.
Starting with deployments, a profound change would begin to take shape, as the RN had seen very early in the process that while the large concentrated main fleet concept had been central to their strategic and tactical thinking, when the High Seas Fleet was still in its original form, with the battleships and battle cruisers of Germany now reduced to more of a nuisance level when comparing relative numbers, the idea of the massed fleet was now found to be redundant. As a result, for the interim, the battleships fit for service would remain at Rosyth, and as the ones to be repaired were returned to service, they would assemble there as well.
As the wounded and injured men of the Grand Fleet were being seen to, so too the many damaged ships of the Grand Fleet would be attended to as well. All these damaged vessels would find their way to yards around the British Isles as expeditiously as possible, with those that could be returned to service the fastest receiving the highest priorities. HMS Tiger would be an exception to that, as her condition was deteriorating, she would be found a location to begin her repairs as well.
While the damaged ships had been taken in hand for repairs, or had moved near them, in the two weeks following the battle, the four heavy units of the Grand Fleet that had been unavailable for the battle, had returned from their upgrades and refits. HMS Emperor of India, which would assume the roll of Jellicoe’s flagship until Iron Duke’s repairs were complete, would be the first, followed in turn by the battle cruiser HMS Princess Royal, and the battleships Neptune and Thunderer. Along with Superb, St. Vincent, Indefatigable, and New Zealand, these ships would provide the core of the Grand Fleet, until the other damaged vessels would be returned to active duty.
---0---
While these injuries and damages to the Grand Fleet were being addressed, there was still a war to be fought, and while the German dreadnoughts had been severely mauled, there were still German threats to be contained. As a result, the Royal Navy would first move to resume the blockade, then begin to sort out its dispositions and available forces to meet its obligations in a manner the best suited the new realities the Royal Navy now faced.
Initially these activities would simply be based on sweeps, patrols and raids by lighter ships, usually based on a destroyer flotilla, supported by light cruisers. These in turn would be short stopped by either Moore’s battle cruisers or Heath’s big armoured cruisers of the 2nd Cruiser Squadron in the central and northern North Sea, while the Harwich Force, covered by the Nore Command’s 3rd Cruiser Squadron, would continue their good work in the southern basin.
Both of these groups, as well as being mutually supporting, could both count on the support of the remaining battleships of the Grand Fleet, as well as Nore Command’s 3rd Battle Squadron of old battleships.
---0---
While at first there had been some uncertainty of how to best counter the remains of the High Seas Fleet, an examination of the use of Admiral Moore’s 2nd BCS as a force to interdict the lighter units of Boedicker’s scouting groups, along with Moore’s handling of his mixed force, would provide the impetus for a new line of thought in how best to counter the enemy they now faced.
The central point in this new line of thought was a return of the battle cruisers to their original plans for use, that is to provide support for the Grand Fleet’s ability to properly scout the enemy, while at the same time deny those scouting abilities to the foe.
---0---
In the period after the attack, Princess Royal, Indefatigable and New Zealand, would provide the muscle for the first of the newly conceived Strike Squadrons that would be deployed along Britain’s east coast to counter any moves by the remains of the High Seas Fleet. These would be followed by Renown and Repulse, along with the first of their remaining pair of sisters, HMS Resistance.
These groups, while originally taking various forms, would settle into a semi formal standard, consisting of a battle cruiser, a pair of light cruisers, a flotilla leader and a dozen destroyers. These groups would be based at various ports along the east coast, and would provide the ready muscle to back the smaller scouting groups, which would evolve through the same period.
The scouting groups, usually with a pair of light cruisers and twelve destroyers, would be the front line of the Royal Navy’s physical domination of the North Sea and the western approaches to the Skagerrak, in essence playing the shield, to the Light Battle Group’s dagger.
Between these two forces, The Royal Navy would be able to keep a reasonably close eye on any potential advances by the High Seas Fleet, as most of these efforts by Germany would, in all likelihood, entail a composition based on a few torpedo boats, backed by light cruisers, which in theory, would be properly countered by these immediately available forces.
An important additional advantage of the ability to use these lighter forces in a more forward position was the fact that by default the Grand Fleet had the ability to interdict German U-boats closer to their exits. With the bases for the U-boats now restricted to the Jade and the Baltic, the additional advantage of the Royal Navy’s ability to forward deploy the scouting groups without the concern that they could be overwhelmed by much superior forces, would mean that there could be a better return on locating the U-boats before they could disperse into the North Sea.
While this advantage would be balanced somewhat by the fact that as the High Seas Fleet’s damaged heavy ships were returned to service, the threat to the patrolling British light craft would increase, The Royal Navy would balance those concerns with the configuration of heavy support groups to counter any such operations. In fact, it was looked at as an opportunity, for if the balance of the High Seas Fleet might be drawn out on such adventures, there was the possibility that they in turn could be caught out and destroyed by the heavy support groups that would be formed as well.
These heavy support groups, consisting of a division of battleships, each with a trio of light cruisers and a further dozen destroyers; which would be positioned at intervals along the coast as well. These deployments would be in such a manner that at least two of these support groups would be able to be supporting each other in any deployment, to allow for the maintenance of numerical superiority.
When possible, these operations would be provided distant air cover and search by the use of The Royal Navy’s two operational aircraft carriers, as well as what seaplane carriers could be found.
The next elements of the new dispositions would include coastal close support squadrons based on the older cruisers and destroyers, which would act as the defensive screen of the east coast and channel. This would be to provide a final cover for any German naval forces that might avoid the outer elements in attempts to enter coastal waters unannounced.
All of these preparations would be further bolstered by using the available shore based seaplanes to further enhance both scouting and ASW operations in coastal waters.
The final stage would be the armed trawlers and other auxiliaries that would attempt to seal off the coastal shipping routes from the attention of U-boats and provide the absolute last line against chance marauders.
---0---
While these formations would steadily work up and redeploy to their new bases in the next few months, more work was being done on expanding and refining the coastal and cross channel convoy system, while at the same time better organizing such efforts to cover the Scandinavian trade. As well, a better organized effort was working up to cover not only the channel and the Irish Sea, but the Western approaches as well.
While the deep ocean routes across the North Atlantic and to Gibraltar would not be brought under the convoy system at that point, basic contingencies were put into place so that if the High Seas Fleet should decide to renew unrestricted submarine warfare once again, faster counter measures could be brought into play.
---0---
While all this had been underway, the Royal Navy would be at the same time looking to what priorities would need to be set for future construction. While there would be a continuance of pushing the need for heavy modern dreadnought types, with the decline of the High Seas Fleet, this would change from a numbers game to one of gaining the technical advantage. While there would continue to be a push for these types, with the sudden changes in comparative strengths after the battle, along with the fact that the remaining large fleets of the world were allies, or friendly neutrals, the demands for completion of these types would quickly fall away, as other more needed types would move up on the priority list.
Maybe of more import, one of the biggest realizations that was beginning to take shape in the minds of the Royal Navy at this point in the war, was that while it was still accepted that battleships were the predominant type in warship development, if one wanted to get full value from them, they needed to be part of a more balanced approach to provisions for other types of ships deployed in the navy.
This had been quickly picked up by Jellicoe and others when they would see that in losing their scouting elements, the High Seas Fleet would also lose most hopes of gaining any tactical advantage as well. A complimentary thought process would come from Moore’s use of the mixed forces under his control as well, furthering the thinking on these matters.
As a result, while the Admiralty would continue with its various battleship and battle cruiser design studies, with the improved Renown’s, being the top of that list, their priorities were swinging to other types in much higher demand.
First and foremost, for the Admiralty would be a large program to provide more destroyer types. While the Grand Fleet’s destroyers had performed well in the battle, as well as most other deployments before in the war, that there was a strong demand for improved versions of these craft was well understood and appreciated. While the latest types had proved successful, there were still many improvements to be brought into play.
The result of the continuing research would be the V class, which was closely based on the last classes of flotilla leaders that the RN were acquiring. This larger more seaworthy design, with it’s high forecastle deck extending back past the bridge, would set the benchmark for destroyers all around the world for the foreseeable future. With a main armament of four 4” guns, several lighter weapons and two sets of triple 21” torpedo tubes for surface threats, lighter weapons to be detailed against airborne threats, and a good stock of the now standard variable depth charges, this design would be a welcome addition to the Royal Navy. As well, this would be the first class of RN destroyers to be designed from the start to include the new Asdic equipment that was leading the fight on countering the U-boat threat. Above all else at that point in the war, these fine ships would be at the top of the navy’s wish list for the mid term.
The construction of the new cruisers was coming along nicely, with the last improved versions of the various ‘C’ class groups advancing nicely through their building programs. With the layout of the last of these ships in the classic A-B-Q-X-Y pattern, while their successors design, the slightly larger ‘D’ class with an extra 6” gun amidships, were already approved and were in the final stages of settling the contractual agreements with their builders.
---0---
The need for a new look on a modern larger cruiser would not only take a look at some of the excellent research done under Admiral Fisher on such matters, but would reveal some of the more outlandish efforts he had put valuable research assets into.
On the plus side, Fisher would first reveal his completed efforts on proper turrets for various calibers, including single and twin mountings for 6”, 7.5” and 9.2” guns then in service. He had also included drawings for the non standard 5.5” gun, which was delivering good service reports on HMS Birkenhead and HMS Chester. All of these were looked at with great interest, particularly with not only the much better protection for their crews, but also with the benefits of power being applied to their operations.
While these new mounts were looked at in great interest for the cruisers of the fleet, it was also realized that there would be a place for these same mountings in the battleships and battle cruisers of the fleet, this being brought to the fore by the catastrophic loss of HMS Malaya and the damages to Warspite and other lesser secondary battery damage taken by other ships during the battle of Jutland.
The single 6” mountings were of great interest. While the larger and more developed twin mount was designed for inclusion in new construction, and could only be added to previous construction through major structural changes, the single mounting was designed as a relatively easy drop in unit. While it would not have the protection between the mounting and munition storage that the twin would, it was still a marked improvement over previous conditions with the older open mounts, and did include the power options of the twin mount design. Studies were set out to look into the possibility of trialing such mounts on the remaining C and the next generation D class cruisers, with the result that the last 6 C Class completed would be completed with them, and the following D class would be redesigned to carry them exclusively.
The next design presented, a larger hull form of a new design, noted as the E class would be displayed in several design forms ranging from five to seven-gun main battery, with the armament mounted in the new single turret designs ranging from 5.5” to 7.5”. As well another design would be presented with six 6” guns in three of the new twin turrets, which would be of great interest to those present.
After that, a much larger vessel, would raise some eyebrows, as Fisher set out the drawings for an 8500-ton displacement cruiser, showing a main battery of either seven 7.5” guns in the new single turrets, or six of them in the new twin mounts.
This design would spark great interest, as a proper answer to what the Royal Navy would need for a cruiser capable of tackling the lighter scouting forces of the High Seas Fleet. The immediate advantages over the battle cruisers now filling that roll were seen in having the quicker firing 7.5”, which were better able to track the smaller targets than the 12” and larger mounts on the battle cruisers, now being employed in that roll.
Looking further into Fisher’s cruisers, there was more concurrence in the E type, that this design deserved further study. Both men were intrigued with the designs for the new turrets that Fisher’s design teams had presented, with the twin mountings being of great interest.
“That these new mounts would deal with several issues our present open mounts had that needed to be dealt with in one motion, had us both highly interested, or include inclement weather, to say nothing of casualties that would be drastically lowered just by having our gunners under proper protection from splinters, would make such mounts worthwhile. Other benefits would proper weather protection while serving these guns, along with the added benefit of an increased and better sustainable rate of fire brought about by the powered processes for munition handling provided by these mounts.
Not only would these mounts be a great advance for our cruisers, their usage in secondary positions on our heavy ships would not only do nothing but improve those mountings that now existed there in a similar manner to the new cruiser designs, but would by nature of their proper trunks and other associated modern features, provide a much safer level of protection against the type of damages that had claimed HMS Malaya.”
- First Sea Lord Admiral Louis Battenburg
“Follies to Foundations–Admiral Fisher and Royal Navy Cruiser Development”
Out of all the actual designs presented by Fisher, the one that that would spark the greatest interest between Battenburg and Jellicoe, would be the F class cruisers. This design, with an 8500-ton displacement 32 knot design speed, and good protection, was all wrapped up in a well laid out hull of high freeboard and good dimension, that would speak to both of these officers of an excellent asset for not only providing good service with the fleet, but as well, being well able to take care of itself on the world’s trade routes, and colonial patrol. As well they would both agree that it would better fill the gap between the present light cruisers and battle cruisers, while at the same time filling some of the duties of the current fast aging collection of armoured cruisers.
Out of the several designs for armament, they wold both agree that the three twin turret arrangement with twin 7.5” powered mounts would be their first choice. The reasoning behind this would be that while lighter than the more powerful 9.2”, the 7.5” guns would be much handier when dealing with enemy light craft up to the size of current light cruisers, and with their heavier rate of fire, would be better able to deliver more shells on the faster and more agile units of those types.
While these first series of designs were looked over and discussed at great length, Fisher would begin to get agitated at the idea that the lighter armed F type would be a better choice than the heavier battle cruisers in most situations when confronting enemy scouting forces, at which point he would present his last series of designs.
These designs, based on a hull that would rival the lengths of existing dreadnoughts, and with designed displacements ranging from 15,000 to 18,000 tons, had a selection of armament choices as well, ranging from 9.2”, through using previously built mountings in 12”, 13.5” and 15”, as well as two new unheard of calibers, 16.5” and a whopping 18”.
“You could have heard a pin drop in the room. What manner of insanity was this? The 9.2” model was an interesting presentation, which might well be worth further study, but to expend the good efforts of our design staffs on vessels with undersigned hypothetical weapons of such a size was beyond reason.
When I confronted Fisher on this, he would simply set that well known stubborn look of his and reply, “They are not undesigned, and will in very short order begin firing trials.”
First Sea Lord Admiral Louis Battenburg
Battenburg, still not believing what he had seen or heard would ask for how these weapons had come to be. Fisher would reply that between his connections in various armament concerns and his ‘ability’ to be creative with his budgets, he had been able to convince Elswick to push ahead with the gun designs, convincing them that the navy would find use for them once completed. That the designs were developed in the caliber they were simply following the tried and true development of the 15’ from the previous 13.5” Model.
Battenburg’s final question was why there were two different calibers, to which Fisher would reply that there would be a back up in the chance the 18” model was unsuccessful. At that point, Battenburg left the meeting.
---0---
While the old genius of Fisher had indeed shone through in a good portion of his work on cruisers, His decisions and choices on some of more untoward choices would at first cause a would appear to be going to set off an outbreak of high blood pressure through out the upper echelons of the Admiralty and Royal Navy.
When after having some time to fully comprehend Fisher’s more outlandish proposals, Battenburg and Jellicoe would settle in to further study just what might be salvaged from his antics. Some quick checks would prove that the new rifles were near enough to completion of their testing barrels, that results would soon be forthcoming. As proof of Fisher’s statement that the 16.5” was merely a back up, it would be the 18” model that would test first, starting in early November, with the 16.5” following in February of 1917.
Both men would realize that while not needed at that point, there may be a need for such weapons in the years ahead, So, as a result, Battenburg would look into seeing that the research and testing at the very least, would continue.
Their last efforts would be given to a study of Fisher’s largest types, and there would be a great deal of time spent gleaning the various designs to see if there might be anything of interest that could be salvaged from the study. Out of the ones with the 16.5” and 18” guns, there was little to note of a practical sense, other than notations on the increased elevations on such mountings, and that both mountings were interchangeable at a basic level, not only between themselves, but with the previous twin 15” mounting as well.
While the rather more practical 9.2” armed version - at least when compared to the more heavily armed versions – was given a more serious inspection, there were concerns with the overall size of the vessel in relation to its protection, which was no better than the old I class battle cruisers. It was in essence, simply a return to a slight variation of the original Invincible class, before it was up-gunned to 12” guns.
Both men agreed that while here again, the design was worth further study for possible future use, at that point in time, there were more needed and practical assets to be concerned with.
The new aircraft carriers had proved their worth, and more were demanded, however actual proper builds were going to be a choke point, as while studies and preliminary design work were under way, the speed at which knowledge was being gathered from Warrior and Defense, the process had nearly been brought to a halt with the amount of confusion and indecisive action in the design process.
When the loss of Campania was taken into account, and the RN down to just two such vessels, it was decided as an expedient solution would be to simply gather in the remaining four ships of the Duke of Edinburgh and Warrior classes for conversions similar to what the previous pair had been. While there would be some upgrades, including a new flush to deck hydraulic lifting platform, they would simply be kept to a very similar plan to deliver them to service as quickly as possible. While this would need budgetary approval, it was felt that this needed expedient could hopefully be approved.
Aircraft production, as well as training for those air crew would need to be enhanced as while, and while there would be conflicts with the RFC for available men and planes, the RNAS’s performance at Jutland, along with the growth of the navy’s stature, would as well hopefully see that these needs were better met.
With both men finally at the end of their meetings, they would take time to have another look at Fisher’s last outlandish design.
“As We looked over the drawings and design information of these unusually large awkward cruisers one last time, Admiral Jellicoe would comment on the fact that it was a shame that so much time and effort had been wasted on such designs, when we were in need of other types that were currently of much more importance, and gave the example of aircraft carriers.
Even as he finished, Admiral Battenburg would look at me first, then Jellicoe. Admiral Jellicoe would look up in silence at Battenburg as Battenburg began to roll up the design sheets.
“I wonder that Jackie is still in his office?”
-Admiral Charles Madden
It was here on June 6th, 1916, while just settling jangled nerves after the wounding of her second son, that the Queen would receive her most devastating news of the war, her first born son Edward, Prince of Wales, had been struck down in battle during Haig’s offensive. Prince Edward, spurred on by his younger brother’s action at Jutland, had defied orders and went over the top with his beloved Grenadier Guards.
In the small shattered courtyard of a nameless Belgian farm, the Prince had been leading his men forward when they had been caught hit by a local counter attack, by a company from a Bavarian regiment. As he had tried to rally his men to him to throw back the assault, the Germans had burst through their ranks and a confused melee of pistol, bayonet, and digging spade broke out. Even as his men were regaining the initiative, a German bayonet would find him, plunging deep into his back, and piercing his heart with its killing blow.
“With cries of ‘See to the Prince!”, his men would steel their nerve, and in a burst of fury, set upon their foe as great tiger would claw down it’s prey. The savagery of their assault would cause their enemy pause, a pause that would prove fatal for these Germans. These stalwart grenadier guards, from closed rank like a buttress round their fallen prince, would lash out, giving no quarter, and expecting none in return. They would stand on to their foe, and coldly slaughter all before them.
As their brethren on the flanks joined them, their attack carried on, and with callous disregard for their own concerns they carried the foe in a manner seldom seen before. As one weeping survivor, his own wounds sobbing their own red tears of pain, would relate after the fight, “That they had struck down our prince, it was the darkest of truths, that great man felled by a bayonet from behind. But we would deliver up all hell’s fury on them, a great roaring ballad of black oath broke forth as we went into them. With a bayonet for every belly, a bullet for every brow, we struck hard and true, and none of these fools would survive to leave the field.”
from – “As Sons serve the Father – The Royal Princes in the Great War”
---0---
The Royal House would be shaken to its core, Queen Mary herself nearly inconsolable in her loss initially, yet Albert’s presence would ease her through, and with the support of the country and empire with them as well, The Royals would weather this crisis and indeed build great strength from it, that would carry them proudly forward into the new century, in a new lockstep with their subjects, now better attuned by way of their common family losses.
That the Royals were seen as bearing the burdens of the common folk would be held close throughout the empire, would be further reinforced some weeks later. The Royal Family had returned to Balmoral in the days following the funeral of Prince Edward, for a time of quiet and reflection on the harsh events of late. While she would keep her other children close about her in those days, she had a restlessness and longing she could not explain. After some days she would announce her desire to travel into Edinburgh in company with a few of her ladies, for an unspecified reason.
With little fanfare, Queen Mary and her small party would arrive unannounced at an Edinburgh military hospital, some days after the funeral of Prince Edward.
“I was about my duties, bringing in the fresh linens, when the door to the ward would open, and I was confronted by the presence of Queen Mary herself! In a bungled attempt to suppress my shock while at the same time deliver an acceptable curtsey, I very nearly collapse in a very untoward heap. Our head matron, Sister Anne, always had a knack for being where she was best needed, and in this case, it was no different as she deftly caught my fall, while greeting the Queen in a more appropriate manner. That was the good thing about Sister Anne, she always knew the proper thing to do.”
From “On the Dark Watch – Notes from the Nursing Sisters at War
by Roberta Milloy
After the exchange of formalities, and scooting onlookers back to their duties with a quick stern glare, Matron Anne Hamilton would ask as to how she might help Her Highness. Queen Mary would simply look back at her, and with a wisp of a small sad smile respond:
“I apoligise for my intrusion on your ward, Matron, but as you know this foul war we face has recently claimed one of my own. That many of these fine men lay here far from the mother’s care, I thought it might be a worthwhile effort on my part to fend of my own grief by standing in for mothers unable to see to their sons here. If you would be so kind to let me pass.”
-Queen Mary
- As Sons serve their Father – The Royal Princes in the Great War”
Matron Anne Hamilton would let her pass, and the Queen would walk into the great hall of the ward, her black lashes of mourning in sharp contrast to the stark white tones of the ward. She would move slowly down the aisle between the rows of beds, looking out at the surprised stares peering back at her.
A short distance in a shaky hand touched a brow, followed by a quiet, mumbled greeting to Queen Mary, and the Queen, taking his lead, would step toward his cot. Queen Mary would note the well bandaged stump of a leg, before looking down on him, greeting him as she involuntarily touched his tossled hair.
He would ask the Queen a boon, that she might passage a message of thanks to ‘Mr. Johnson’, for it was he who had dragged him to safety that fateful day.
“Cor, what a sight it was then, our great Queen Mary, settling onto the edge of his wee bed, with a smile and a tear, she would nod her head, and then they talked. The ward came back to life, but with a feeling of something new as the Queen and her ladies would see to all there. It was a special kind of magic that I saw in that place, like Christmas, mayhaps even better.
A mother for all she was, a mother for all.”
-“On the Dark Watch – Notes from the Nursing Sisters at War”
By Roberta Milloy
With this act, Queen Mary, so long seen as the quiet yet stern and somehow distant wife of King George V, would set forth on a life long passionate mission to see to the needs of the empires fighting men. Starting first with the wounded in such places as the ward she first visited, her vision would expand through all aspects of veteran’s care. It would be a labour of love for her people that would be passed on to her daughter-in-law in due time, and to her granddaughter after that.
Beginning with this small act of dealing with her grief, it would grow into the strongest of bonds between the Royal house of Great Britain and those who served it so well.
---0---
In that same period of time, Father and Son would talk at great lengths, discussing many matters, as now Prince Albert would assume his brother’s station and follow his Father onto the throne somewhere in the future. In their conversations His father would tell him that he would, in the near future, granting him the new style, ‘Prince of Wales’, as in taking on his brother’s mantle of lineage, he should rightfully hold that style as well.
For possibly the first time in his life, Prince Albert would go counter to his father’s wishes, stating that out of respect to his fallen brother, while he would accept all other titles, he would prefer not to assume that role. His father would agree to that, instead styling him ‘Duke of York’.
Further conversation would lead to not only his own coming award for Bravery in battle, but the same one posthumously for his brother. From this another discussion would be born out, one of large impact for the future. While Albert had no argument with his brother’s award, he felt that his own was somewhat overblown, due simply to his royal blood. While he would get his, there was a member of his turret crew that would receive no recognition for an act of much more significant action.
At his Father’s behest, he would relate the story of an ordinary rating, Edmund Magwood. Magwood, an oversized and powerful man, had the reputation for being somewhat of a malcontent and bully. Regularly on report, and not missing an opportunity to annoy those about him, he was not the sort to become chummy with for most. However, he was loyal to a tee when it came to his fellows, and on the fateful day when Albert dragged his companion from that shattered turret, Magwood was on the far side of the hood. As he made his way clear, he would pull two men with him, then return for a third. He had received no mention anywhere regarding these efforts, except from his mates.
Prince Edward knew, as did the king, that there would be many awards from the battle handed out to those of position would receive an honor for no better reason than simply being in the vicinity of the action, while common sailors like Magwood would see nothing for their great efforts in times of need.
King George V would simply nod, and tell his son he would look into the matter.
---0---
Through out the war King George V would enjoy his short respites to visit with his cousin and Friend Admiral Battenburg. It was in one of these conversations not long after Prince Edward had been laid to rest that the King would relate Prince Albert’s story of Magwood, and inquired with the First Sea Lord if he might ask into it. Battenburg would state that he would be more than happy to make inquiries on the matter.
---0---
In the same period of time, Jellicoe and Madden were making their way back to Rosyth, after a series of meetings and consultations at the Admiralty. On the trip back, Madden would relate his meeting with Admiral Levesen’s widow, with whom both wives of the men present were acquainted. Madden would assure Jellicoe that he had passed on his condolences as well, and that she had received his letter, and was very appreciative of it.
As the train went on, both men would relate their personal feelings on the battle and its results, before turning to the men who had served the fleet so well, yet through their actions had met their end. The conversation would finally come to rear Admiral David Beatty.
“That he was a character would be an understatement, with his unusual manner of dress, and his mastery of society’s social scene, it’s a wonder he had time for his duties, but you know he did, and in his heart he was every inch the sailor. We would have our disagreements you know about that. He could be a challenge to command.
Driven like a storm’s wind, and tenacious as a bulldog, he would never let off. He had the temperment of an alley fighter, never missing the opportunity to run in with his blade, always seeking the opportunity to strike, no matter the cost.
He had a style and panache about him that most other officers would lack, yet I wonder with some study, that those outward effects of his personality might well have shielded his imperfections from view. To be truthful dash may well cover a reckless approach, while style can indeed mask the inability to fulfill orders as planned, if one wants to take a more negative view on matters.
There will comparisons between the two battle cruiser commanders of Heligoland and Jutland, and as with all historical reference, the presentation will be dependent on the bias of the offer. That is the intrigue of history, every man a hero, and at the same time a villain ... it just depends on the biographer's pallette.
Out of the two, Beatty and Cradock, who was my choice? That both these officers had their ways was without question. However, that I had with me at Jutland Admiral Cradock, I will never regret. Out of all who served with me during the Great War, He would be my finest subordinate."
Admiral John Jellicoe
---0--- ---0---
In the days following the battle, much time and thought would be expended in the Admiralty sorting out not only the final results of the battle, but also just which direction the Royal Navy should be setting course for, not only in such basic things as repairs and construction of new units, but in tactical dispositions and strategic deployments as well. When bringing in the understanding that with the destruction of the bulk of the High Seas Fleet, the Grand Fleet had for all purposes, put itself out of work in that particular area.
Starting with deployments, a profound change would begin to take shape, as the RN had seen very early in the process that while the large concentrated main fleet concept had been central to their strategic and tactical thinking, when the High Seas Fleet was still in its original form, with the battleships and battle cruisers of Germany now reduced to more of a nuisance level when comparing relative numbers, the idea of the massed fleet was now found to be redundant. As a result, for the interim, the battleships fit for service would remain at Rosyth, and as the ones to be repaired were returned to service, they would assemble there as well.
As the wounded and injured men of the Grand Fleet were being seen to, so too the many damaged ships of the Grand Fleet would be attended to as well. All these damaged vessels would find their way to yards around the British Isles as expeditiously as possible, with those that could be returned to service the fastest receiving the highest priorities. HMS Tiger would be an exception to that, as her condition was deteriorating, she would be found a location to begin her repairs as well.
While the damaged ships had been taken in hand for repairs, or had moved near them, in the two weeks following the battle, the four heavy units of the Grand Fleet that had been unavailable for the battle, had returned from their upgrades and refits. HMS Emperor of India, which would assume the roll of Jellicoe’s flagship until Iron Duke’s repairs were complete, would be the first, followed in turn by the battle cruiser HMS Princess Royal, and the battleships Neptune and Thunderer. Along with Superb, St. Vincent, Indefatigable, and New Zealand, these ships would provide the core of the Grand Fleet, until the other damaged vessels would be returned to active duty.
---0---
While these injuries and damages to the Grand Fleet were being addressed, there was still a war to be fought, and while the German dreadnoughts had been severely mauled, there were still German threats to be contained. As a result, the Royal Navy would first move to resume the blockade, then begin to sort out its dispositions and available forces to meet its obligations in a manner the best suited the new realities the Royal Navy now faced.
Initially these activities would simply be based on sweeps, patrols and raids by lighter ships, usually based on a destroyer flotilla, supported by light cruisers. These in turn would be short stopped by either Moore’s battle cruisers or Heath’s big armoured cruisers of the 2nd Cruiser Squadron in the central and northern North Sea, while the Harwich Force, covered by the Nore Command’s 3rd Cruiser Squadron, would continue their good work in the southern basin.
Both of these groups, as well as being mutually supporting, could both count on the support of the remaining battleships of the Grand Fleet, as well as Nore Command’s 3rd Battle Squadron of old battleships.
---0---
While at first there had been some uncertainty of how to best counter the remains of the High Seas Fleet, an examination of the use of Admiral Moore’s 2nd BCS as a force to interdict the lighter units of Boedicker’s scouting groups, along with Moore’s handling of his mixed force, would provide the impetus for a new line of thought in how best to counter the enemy they now faced.
The central point in this new line of thought was a return of the battle cruisers to their original plans for use, that is to provide support for the Grand Fleet’s ability to properly scout the enemy, while at the same time deny those scouting abilities to the foe.
---0---
In the period after the attack, Princess Royal, Indefatigable and New Zealand, would provide the muscle for the first of the newly conceived Strike Squadrons that would be deployed along Britain’s east coast to counter any moves by the remains of the High Seas Fleet. These would be followed by Renown and Repulse, along with the first of their remaining pair of sisters, HMS Resistance.
These groups, while originally taking various forms, would settle into a semi formal standard, consisting of a battle cruiser, a pair of light cruisers, a flotilla leader and a dozen destroyers. These groups would be based at various ports along the east coast, and would provide the ready muscle to back the smaller scouting groups, which would evolve through the same period.
The scouting groups, usually with a pair of light cruisers and twelve destroyers, would be the front line of the Royal Navy’s physical domination of the North Sea and the western approaches to the Skagerrak, in essence playing the shield, to the Light Battle Group’s dagger.
Between these two forces, The Royal Navy would be able to keep a reasonably close eye on any potential advances by the High Seas Fleet, as most of these efforts by Germany would, in all likelihood, entail a composition based on a few torpedo boats, backed by light cruisers, which in theory, would be properly countered by these immediately available forces.
An important additional advantage of the ability to use these lighter forces in a more forward position was the fact that by default the Grand Fleet had the ability to interdict German U-boats closer to their exits. With the bases for the U-boats now restricted to the Jade and the Baltic, the additional advantage of the Royal Navy’s ability to forward deploy the scouting groups without the concern that they could be overwhelmed by much superior forces, would mean that there could be a better return on locating the U-boats before they could disperse into the North Sea.
While this advantage would be balanced somewhat by the fact that as the High Seas Fleet’s damaged heavy ships were returned to service, the threat to the patrolling British light craft would increase, The Royal Navy would balance those concerns with the configuration of heavy support groups to counter any such operations. In fact, it was looked at as an opportunity, for if the balance of the High Seas Fleet might be drawn out on such adventures, there was the possibility that they in turn could be caught out and destroyed by the heavy support groups that would be formed as well.
These heavy support groups, consisting of a division of battleships, each with a trio of light cruisers and a further dozen destroyers; which would be positioned at intervals along the coast as well. These deployments would be in such a manner that at least two of these support groups would be able to be supporting each other in any deployment, to allow for the maintenance of numerical superiority.
When possible, these operations would be provided distant air cover and search by the use of The Royal Navy’s two operational aircraft carriers, as well as what seaplane carriers could be found.
The next elements of the new dispositions would include coastal close support squadrons based on the older cruisers and destroyers, which would act as the defensive screen of the east coast and channel. This would be to provide a final cover for any German naval forces that might avoid the outer elements in attempts to enter coastal waters unannounced.
All of these preparations would be further bolstered by using the available shore based seaplanes to further enhance both scouting and ASW operations in coastal waters.
The final stage would be the armed trawlers and other auxiliaries that would attempt to seal off the coastal shipping routes from the attention of U-boats and provide the absolute last line against chance marauders.
---0---
While these formations would steadily work up and redeploy to their new bases in the next few months, more work was being done on expanding and refining the coastal and cross channel convoy system, while at the same time better organizing such efforts to cover the Scandinavian trade. As well, a better organized effort was working up to cover not only the channel and the Irish Sea, but the Western approaches as well.
While the deep ocean routes across the North Atlantic and to Gibraltar would not be brought under the convoy system at that point, basic contingencies were put into place so that if the High Seas Fleet should decide to renew unrestricted submarine warfare once again, faster counter measures could be brought into play.
---0---
While all this had been underway, the Royal Navy would be at the same time looking to what priorities would need to be set for future construction. While there would be a continuance of pushing the need for heavy modern dreadnought types, with the decline of the High Seas Fleet, this would change from a numbers game to one of gaining the technical advantage. While there would continue to be a push for these types, with the sudden changes in comparative strengths after the battle, along with the fact that the remaining large fleets of the world were allies, or friendly neutrals, the demands for completion of these types would quickly fall away, as other more needed types would move up on the priority list.
Maybe of more import, one of the biggest realizations that was beginning to take shape in the minds of the Royal Navy at this point in the war, was that while it was still accepted that battleships were the predominant type in warship development, if one wanted to get full value from them, they needed to be part of a more balanced approach to provisions for other types of ships deployed in the navy.
This had been quickly picked up by Jellicoe and others when they would see that in losing their scouting elements, the High Seas Fleet would also lose most hopes of gaining any tactical advantage as well. A complimentary thought process would come from Moore’s use of the mixed forces under his control as well, furthering the thinking on these matters.
As a result, while the Admiralty would continue with its various battleship and battle cruiser design studies, with the improved Renown’s, being the top of that list, their priorities were swinging to other types in much higher demand.
First and foremost, for the Admiralty would be a large program to provide more destroyer types. While the Grand Fleet’s destroyers had performed well in the battle, as well as most other deployments before in the war, that there was a strong demand for improved versions of these craft was well understood and appreciated. While the latest types had proved successful, there were still many improvements to be brought into play.
The result of the continuing research would be the V class, which was closely based on the last classes of flotilla leaders that the RN were acquiring. This larger more seaworthy design, with it’s high forecastle deck extending back past the bridge, would set the benchmark for destroyers all around the world for the foreseeable future. With a main armament of four 4” guns, several lighter weapons and two sets of triple 21” torpedo tubes for surface threats, lighter weapons to be detailed against airborne threats, and a good stock of the now standard variable depth charges, this design would be a welcome addition to the Royal Navy. As well, this would be the first class of RN destroyers to be designed from the start to include the new Asdic equipment that was leading the fight on countering the U-boat threat. Above all else at that point in the war, these fine ships would be at the top of the navy’s wish list for the mid term.
The construction of the new cruisers was coming along nicely, with the last improved versions of the various ‘C’ class groups advancing nicely through their building programs. With the layout of the last of these ships in the classic A-B-Q-X-Y pattern, while their successors design, the slightly larger ‘D’ class with an extra 6” gun amidships, were already approved and were in the final stages of settling the contractual agreements with their builders.
---0---
The need for a new look on a modern larger cruiser would not only take a look at some of the excellent research done under Admiral Fisher on such matters, but would reveal some of the more outlandish efforts he had put valuable research assets into.
On the plus side, Fisher would first reveal his completed efforts on proper turrets for various calibers, including single and twin mountings for 6”, 7.5” and 9.2” guns then in service. He had also included drawings for the non standard 5.5” gun, which was delivering good service reports on HMS Birkenhead and HMS Chester. All of these were looked at with great interest, particularly with not only the much better protection for their crews, but also with the benefits of power being applied to their operations.
While these new mounts were looked at in great interest for the cruisers of the fleet, it was also realized that there would be a place for these same mountings in the battleships and battle cruisers of the fleet, this being brought to the fore by the catastrophic loss of HMS Malaya and the damages to Warspite and other lesser secondary battery damage taken by other ships during the battle of Jutland.
The single 6” mountings were of great interest. While the larger and more developed twin mount was designed for inclusion in new construction, and could only be added to previous construction through major structural changes, the single mounting was designed as a relatively easy drop in unit. While it would not have the protection between the mounting and munition storage that the twin would, it was still a marked improvement over previous conditions with the older open mounts, and did include the power options of the twin mount design. Studies were set out to look into the possibility of trialing such mounts on the remaining C and the next generation D class cruisers, with the result that the last 6 C Class completed would be completed with them, and the following D class would be redesigned to carry them exclusively.
The next design presented, a larger hull form of a new design, noted as the E class would be displayed in several design forms ranging from five to seven-gun main battery, with the armament mounted in the new single turret designs ranging from 5.5” to 7.5”. As well another design would be presented with six 6” guns in three of the new twin turrets, which would be of great interest to those present.
After that, a much larger vessel, would raise some eyebrows, as Fisher set out the drawings for an 8500-ton displacement cruiser, showing a main battery of either seven 7.5” guns in the new single turrets, or six of them in the new twin mounts.
This design would spark great interest, as a proper answer to what the Royal Navy would need for a cruiser capable of tackling the lighter scouting forces of the High Seas Fleet. The immediate advantages over the battle cruisers now filling that roll were seen in having the quicker firing 7.5”, which were better able to track the smaller targets than the 12” and larger mounts on the battle cruisers, now being employed in that roll.
Looking further into Fisher’s cruisers, there was more concurrence in the E type, that this design deserved further study. Both men were intrigued with the designs for the new turrets that Fisher’s design teams had presented, with the twin mountings being of great interest.
“That these new mounts would deal with several issues our present open mounts had that needed to be dealt with in one motion, had us both highly interested, or include inclement weather, to say nothing of casualties that would be drastically lowered just by having our gunners under proper protection from splinters, would make such mounts worthwhile. Other benefits would proper weather protection while serving these guns, along with the added benefit of an increased and better sustainable rate of fire brought about by the powered processes for munition handling provided by these mounts.
Not only would these mounts be a great advance for our cruisers, their usage in secondary positions on our heavy ships would not only do nothing but improve those mountings that now existed there in a similar manner to the new cruiser designs, but would by nature of their proper trunks and other associated modern features, provide a much safer level of protection against the type of damages that had claimed HMS Malaya.”
- First Sea Lord Admiral Louis Battenburg
“Follies to Foundations–Admiral Fisher and Royal Navy Cruiser Development”
Out of all the actual designs presented by Fisher, the one that that would spark the greatest interest between Battenburg and Jellicoe, would be the F class cruisers. This design, with an 8500-ton displacement 32 knot design speed, and good protection, was all wrapped up in a well laid out hull of high freeboard and good dimension, that would speak to both of these officers of an excellent asset for not only providing good service with the fleet, but as well, being well able to take care of itself on the world’s trade routes, and colonial patrol. As well they would both agree that it would better fill the gap between the present light cruisers and battle cruisers, while at the same time filling some of the duties of the current fast aging collection of armoured cruisers.
Out of the several designs for armament, they wold both agree that the three twin turret arrangement with twin 7.5” powered mounts would be their first choice. The reasoning behind this would be that while lighter than the more powerful 9.2”, the 7.5” guns would be much handier when dealing with enemy light craft up to the size of current light cruisers, and with their heavier rate of fire, would be better able to deliver more shells on the faster and more agile units of those types.
While these first series of designs were looked over and discussed at great length, Fisher would begin to get agitated at the idea that the lighter armed F type would be a better choice than the heavier battle cruisers in most situations when confronting enemy scouting forces, at which point he would present his last series of designs.
These designs, based on a hull that would rival the lengths of existing dreadnoughts, and with designed displacements ranging from 15,000 to 18,000 tons, had a selection of armament choices as well, ranging from 9.2”, through using previously built mountings in 12”, 13.5” and 15”, as well as two new unheard of calibers, 16.5” and a whopping 18”.
“You could have heard a pin drop in the room. What manner of insanity was this? The 9.2” model was an interesting presentation, which might well be worth further study, but to expend the good efforts of our design staffs on vessels with undersigned hypothetical weapons of such a size was beyond reason.
When I confronted Fisher on this, he would simply set that well known stubborn look of his and reply, “They are not undesigned, and will in very short order begin firing trials.”
First Sea Lord Admiral Louis Battenburg
Battenburg, still not believing what he had seen or heard would ask for how these weapons had come to be. Fisher would reply that between his connections in various armament concerns and his ‘ability’ to be creative with his budgets, he had been able to convince Elswick to push ahead with the gun designs, convincing them that the navy would find use for them once completed. That the designs were developed in the caliber they were simply following the tried and true development of the 15’ from the previous 13.5” Model.
Battenburg’s final question was why there were two different calibers, to which Fisher would reply that there would be a back up in the chance the 18” model was unsuccessful. At that point, Battenburg left the meeting.
---0---
While the old genius of Fisher had indeed shone through in a good portion of his work on cruisers, His decisions and choices on some of more untoward choices would at first cause a would appear to be going to set off an outbreak of high blood pressure through out the upper echelons of the Admiralty and Royal Navy.
When after having some time to fully comprehend Fisher’s more outlandish proposals, Battenburg and Jellicoe would settle in to further study just what might be salvaged from his antics. Some quick checks would prove that the new rifles were near enough to completion of their testing barrels, that results would soon be forthcoming. As proof of Fisher’s statement that the 16.5” was merely a back up, it would be the 18” model that would test first, starting in early November, with the 16.5” following in February of 1917.
Both men would realize that while not needed at that point, there may be a need for such weapons in the years ahead, So, as a result, Battenburg would look into seeing that the research and testing at the very least, would continue.
Their last efforts would be given to a study of Fisher’s largest types, and there would be a great deal of time spent gleaning the various designs to see if there might be anything of interest that could be salvaged from the study. Out of the ones with the 16.5” and 18” guns, there was little to note of a practical sense, other than notations on the increased elevations on such mountings, and that both mountings were interchangeable at a basic level, not only between themselves, but with the previous twin 15” mounting as well.
While the rather more practical 9.2” armed version - at least when compared to the more heavily armed versions – was given a more serious inspection, there were concerns with the overall size of the vessel in relation to its protection, which was no better than the old I class battle cruisers. It was in essence, simply a return to a slight variation of the original Invincible class, before it was up-gunned to 12” guns.
Both men agreed that while here again, the design was worth further study for possible future use, at that point in time, there were more needed and practical assets to be concerned with.
The new aircraft carriers had proved their worth, and more were demanded, however actual proper builds were going to be a choke point, as while studies and preliminary design work were under way, the speed at which knowledge was being gathered from Warrior and Defense, the process had nearly been brought to a halt with the amount of confusion and indecisive action in the design process.
When the loss of Campania was taken into account, and the RN down to just two such vessels, it was decided as an expedient solution would be to simply gather in the remaining four ships of the Duke of Edinburgh and Warrior classes for conversions similar to what the previous pair had been. While there would be some upgrades, including a new flush to deck hydraulic lifting platform, they would simply be kept to a very similar plan to deliver them to service as quickly as possible. While this would need budgetary approval, it was felt that this needed expedient could hopefully be approved.
Aircraft production, as well as training for those air crew would need to be enhanced as while, and while there would be conflicts with the RFC for available men and planes, the RNAS’s performance at Jutland, along with the growth of the navy’s stature, would as well hopefully see that these needs were better met.
With both men finally at the end of their meetings, they would take time to have another look at Fisher’s last outlandish design.
“As We looked over the drawings and design information of these unusually large awkward cruisers one last time, Admiral Jellicoe would comment on the fact that it was a shame that so much time and effort had been wasted on such designs, when we were in need of other types that were currently of much more importance, and gave the example of aircraft carriers.
Even as he finished, Admiral Battenburg would look at me first, then Jellicoe. Admiral Jellicoe would look up in silence at Battenburg as Battenburg began to roll up the design sheets.
“I wonder that Jackie is still in his office?”
-Admiral Charles Madden
Last edited:
Donald Reaver
Donor
Grimm news for the Royal family, hopefully a certain Austrian was present in the Barvarian regiment that was not identified perished.
... they had a certain liking for each other some have said ... I liked the irony of it ...
Fishers going to get it now, that maniac better have a carrier conversion plan for them
... I actually have a certain fondness for Fisher ...
While a little (lot) of the wall on occasion, he had the capacity to grasp some pretty amazing concepts, and the drive to get them into use ...
I love him as well, Jellicoe came to the fore because of him. But his insanity moments are almost Churchill sized