And Venice's 8 years truce with Hungary has ended in 1356, right?
So, if Dusan is still around, how does Louis find the time to take Zara from Venice then?
The eagle's left head
- Thread starter Lascaris
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So, if Dusan is still around, how does Louis find the time to take Zara from Venice then?
I'd guess someone would had noticed that instead of invading Dalmatia Louis spent the year fighting the Serbs?
Orsini is in Naples in TTL, right ?
In that case, all the needed aspects are there for a prosperous wool industry.
I am not sure about it. Sicily is integrated with the broad christian trade network and the alum they produce is way too much to be absorbed by the sicilian industry. If I had to guess, Sicily and Calabria have their place in the wool market, but not to the expense of Florence. The impact would be distributed across Valencia, Catalonia, Languedoc, Lombardy and Tuscany, If anything, the aragonese textile industry that seems to have dominated the sicilian market in OTL will face some impact.
One year before, or one year after (or more) won't make much difference. The anti-venetian league of Lajos will be in place and all its main actors have the same anti-venetian interests as in OTL. In the end, Lajos is the same and doesn't like losing what he considers his patrimony and he has a history of going after the low-hanging fruit. And he didn't take humiliation well - and the Venetians humiliated him in front of Zara by defeating his larger army. At some point, he will return to Dalmatia.I'd guess someone would had noticed that instead of invading Dalmatia Louis spent the year fighting the Serbs?
Precisely my question.I'd guess someone would had noticed that instead of invading Dalmatia Louis spent the year fighting the Serbs?
Can Louis invade Venetian Dalmatia if, because Dusan is not dead, Serbia is still a threat in his back?
Venice might sit out Louis's war with the Serbs, but would Dusan sit out a later Louis's war with Venice?
Especially if Venetian ducats found their way to his pockets...
but the same can be said for Louis, who could enlist among his ranks some of the enemies of the Serenissima, such as the patriarch of Aquileia and the Scaligeri and potentially also obtain from some princes of the HRE a group of soldiers to use for his campaign ( of course upon payment )
I also wonder at what point does Venice intercede on the ERE's behalf? We've seen them go to war over the Black Sea Trade (And calling in the ERE in that war like a vassal...), and in OTL they went to war with Genoa over control of Tenedos. Will we see a Venetian-ERE alliance against Alexandros simply because he snaps up the North Aegean Islands from the ERE?
Hm, now that the title of Despot is no longer needed, will we see more Katepano's emerge? Perhaps an establishment of a Katepano of Sicily, one of Magna Graecia (Mainland Italy), and one for the islands of the Aegean (perhaps something like the Kybrrhaeiot theme? But named after a different city, perhaps Rhodos?)? The Katepano's would continue to act like administrators/military commanders as they do now (a continuation of the theme system). I wonder if we will see a Basileus attempt to separate those two powers? Perhaps establishing a 'local' Strategos apart from the Katepano's per province in order to reduce probabilities for rebellion?
Updated Family Tree, as of 1357! Please let me know if anyone has any comments or suggestions!
Well, at this point, Venetia is 'bit busy' and with bigger worries closer to home than the Aegean. And, later, for Venetia to attempt to do anything about it, the Serenísima, after to weight if would be worth to afford the risks for their possessions.
So, would be needing better and bigger allies than just the ERE..
So, would be needing better and bigger allies than just the ERE..
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By the way, there has been a discussion on what will happen when - inevitably - an incompetent Doukas Lascaris Vatatzes inherits the crown. As I see it, the political tradition of the Empire of Sicily and Hellas is a hybrid between the traditions of the ERE and the Latin West.
The main institution inherited from the Latin West is that of parliament and avoiding replacing dynasties from within the state. As it has been stated multiple times, due to the special circumstances of Alexandros' rise to power, the main stakeholder within the sicilian parliament is that of the communes.
The main tradition of the ERE is the political thought that exists in the greek part of the realm and has been brought west by Alexandros, his followers from the byzantine elite and successive waves of settlers. The cornerstone of that political thought is that of popular consent as the source of authorizing allocation of power. The concept of the "will of the people" is present in the Novels of Leo VI, where the "people" are the "crew" of the "ship" and the "ship" being the politeia, the state that Kaldellis considers the continuation of the res publica.
So what will happen when an icompetent Lascaris gets the crown ? In the ERE tradition, is it quite possible that an aristocrat or a military commander would replace him. But in Sicily it would be a taboo to replace the Lascarids with a Chrysafis or a Philanthropenos dynasty. Therefore, I find it more plausible that the communes will rise to the challenge of helping steering the helm of the ship. The natural consequense of the marriage of the two traditions, is that of a more powerful parliament, one dominated by burghers and pronoia holders. Certainly, a strong capable Emperor at a later stage might try to restrict the privileges and influence of the Parliament, but even if he is successful, precedence will have been established and a long tug-of-war between Emperor and Parliament will result in a regime with greater resemblance to e.g. Stuart England than e.g. Bourbon Naples or France.
The main institution inherited from the Latin West is that of parliament and avoiding replacing dynasties from within the state. As it has been stated multiple times, due to the special circumstances of Alexandros' rise to power, the main stakeholder within the sicilian parliament is that of the communes.
The main tradition of the ERE is the political thought that exists in the greek part of the realm and has been brought west by Alexandros, his followers from the byzantine elite and successive waves of settlers. The cornerstone of that political thought is that of popular consent as the source of authorizing allocation of power. The concept of the "will of the people" is present in the Novels of Leo VI, where the "people" are the "crew" of the "ship" and the "ship" being the politeia, the state that Kaldellis considers the continuation of the res publica.
So what will happen when an icompetent Lascaris gets the crown ? In the ERE tradition, is it quite possible that an aristocrat or a military commander would replace him. But in Sicily it would be a taboo to replace the Lascarids with a Chrysafis or a Philanthropenos dynasty. Therefore, I find it more plausible that the communes will rise to the challenge of helping steering the helm of the ship. The natural consequense of the marriage of the two traditions, is that of a more powerful parliament, one dominated by burghers and pronoia holders. Certainly, a strong capable Emperor at a later stage might try to restrict the privileges and influence of the Parliament, but even if he is successful, precedence will have been established and a long tug-of-war between Emperor and Parliament will result in a regime with greater resemblance to e.g. Stuart England than e.g. Bourbon Naples or France.
Interesting thought, the parliament definitely will hold some say in things if a bad basilious takes charge but I could see a philanthropenos take over in such a situation due to their close ties to the Laskarids
At which point will they hellenize... sorry, romanize the name and start talking of the parliament as of a "Senate" ?
A lot of late byzantine cities had two political bodies: one named Boule that usually translates as Assembly and one named Gerousia that is the translation of Senate. The latter seems to have been an assembly of the city's most important elites, so indeed it seems that Senate could be a name for a parliament.
It also makes it sound more "imperial" as it calls to the memory and prestige of that ancient imperial roman institution. Parliament meanwhile... might be seen as a more vulgar and pale Latin imitation in the eyes and ears of those more versed in Byzantine and Roman traditions as in the Despotate. In effect, that is just speaking about changing a name, not the functions and role of the parliament, but it speaks also to the mentality that might take hold of the Lascarid Empire political elites.
As noted Alexandros II had his own reasons to want to grab Lesbos...
Yes.
Syracuse is not at war with Constantinople. Yet.
While I've been known to have argued that things in the empire went downhill when no ambitious general managed to rid it of Andronikos II, or the Angeloi prior to this there is something to be said about not needing a coup or silk cords to ensure competence...
he'll get into a four way war with the Serbs, Ottomans and Byzantines right after ending a decade long brutal war at home soil?
Manuel as despot of the Morea had certainly proven himself a capable man. It's interesting what might have happened if he had descedants.
Or is he? He sent of someone who was a hothead, undiplomatic person as ambassador to Constantinople. This can be read in many ways. From being blind to Leo's shortcomings to intentionally sending off Leo in hopes of causing trouble.
So is the despotate after 80 years of smooth dynastic transitions closer to the western or the eastern model of succession? And isn't that an interesting question?
Is he? That's his last whereabouts about 2 decades ago...
He can invade but if Serbia is actively at war against it means a major part of his army is tied down facing the Serbs. Now the Venetians weren't overtly well known for their strong armies but they did not win out the terrafirma by buying it...
If so, then,in the new Despot/Basileus, we might very well to have a Prince, from which Machiavelli would be proud of...
Vince
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War implies Constantinople has a way of fighting back. This would be more of an Alexandros takes what he wants in the Aegean while Ionnes can do nothing but rage because he has no ships.
Ah, no, this is wrong. Syracuse IS at war with Constantinopel. 1) The LD attacked and annexed a part of it´s territory. 2) Any pretense of acknowledging the superiority of the ERE has been put to rest, too.
Just because Johannes V. has not responded with a similar act of war, that doesn´t mean they are not at war.
And let´s not forget that the act of coronation is a slap in the face for Louis of Hungary, who still claims the full kingdom of Neapolis...
So, no, that was not a smart idea.
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How so? Alexandros was asked by Ioannis V to expell Manuel Kantakouzenos from Lesvos and any dependency he controlled. These were Lascarid boots on the grounds doing the Emperor's dirty work. Then, they just refused to leave or let Ioannis' own governor in.
Indeed ! However, 15th century Venice was much stronger than 1357/58 Venice. And in OTL Lajos did his homework: Padua and the Patriarchate of Aquileia had a larger population than 1358 Terrafirma (Treviso and environs basically). I would argue that Friuli alone had a bigger population than Venice. Nicholas of Luxemburg has also the support of Charles IV and can punch above his own weight. In OTL Lajos recognized Istria as venetian and didn't promote Nicholas' claims in the region. In TTL, Lajos can promise Istria to Nicholas - it is not part of the lands he considers hungarian after all, in order to receive more support from the Luxemburgs. Of course, Nicholas will die in July 1358, but he could entangle Friuli before he passes away. If the Luxemburgs are out then the Habsburgs might be in. After all, they had ambitions in the region, both Albert II and Rudolph IV. These are important allies, even if most of Hungary's strength is focused on Dusan.
The Venetians can always receive crossbowmen from Crete and a few Lombard knights from Euboea. But that would not have been the most prudent course of action since it will leave the crown jewels very lightly defended.
Of course, it would also be plausible that such clash takes place in the early 1360s. Then, the most likely anti-venetian league would include Carrara, Habsburg and ... the Commune of St. Titus.