Queen Elizabeth I marries Philip II of Spain

[DrakeRlugia]

Inspired by a reply I was just writing...

Obviously, we know that after Mary's death, Philip II proposed marriage to Elizabeth. He had a variety of stipulations, such as her converting to the Catholic faith and obtaining the dispensation from the Pope herself. Given that England soon began to work on reforming the church, and Elizabeth's own distaste to marriage, it's little surprise that the negotiations fell through and Elizabeth and Philip never married. Elizabeth had fairly good relations with Spain until things began to deteriorate later on in her reign.

What if Elizabeth did marry Philip? Obviously this would require some alteration to her own person; I know there was discussion in a thread that @Kellan Sullivan wrote about more Catholic Bishops surviving in the 1558 period, which might hinder English reformation efforts and could even water them down further. While I truly believe that Elizabeth would probably never consider a marriage if she could avoid it, and changing her religion is likely way out of the question for her... is there a way for the political situation to be ruinous enough that Elizabeth believes her only choice is to seek Spanish protection by marrying the King of Spain, sort of a situation where she's forced into it? Perhaps on the inverse, the situation requires Philip II to make such a commitment where Elizabeth and Philip are able to 'meet in the middle' so to speak re: his demands for such a marriage. More difficult situations getting the treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis signed? Fears of renewed war? I know France and Spain were both dealing with financial issues in the aftermath, but perhaps Henri II threatening an expedition to place Mary Stuart upon the English throne (he had impaled her arms with England's following Mary I's death, and proclaimed her the rightful queen of England)?

If all that could be overcome and they did marry, what sort of effects would that have on Europe; in England, and within Spain? What would occur in France?

 

[kasumigenx]

Inspired by a reply I was just writing...

Obviously, we know that after Mary's death, Philip II proposed marriage to Elizabeth. He had a variety of stipulations, such as her converting to the Catholic faith and obtaining the dispensation from the Pope herself. Given that England soon began to work on reforming the church, and Elizabeth's own distaste to marriage, it's little surprise that the negotiations fell through and Elizabeth and Philip never married. Elizabeth had fairly good relations with Spain until things began to deteriorate later on in her reign.

What if Elizabeth did marry Philip? Obviously this would require some alteration to her own person; I know there was discussion in a thread that @Kellan Sullivan wrote about more Catholic Bishops surviving in the 1558 period, which might hinder English reformation efforts and could even water them down further. While I truly believe that Elizabeth would probably never consider a marriage if she could avoid it, and changing her religion is likely way out of the question for her... is there a way for the political situation to be ruinous enough that Elizabeth believes her only choice is to seek Spanish protection by marrying the King of Spain, sort of a situation where she's forced into it? Perhaps on the inverse, the situation requires Philip II to make such a commitment where Elizabeth and Philip are able to 'meet in the middle' so to speak re: his demands for such a marriage. More difficult situations getting the treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis signed? Fears of renewed war? I know France and Spain were both dealing with financial issues in the aftermath, but perhaps Henri II threatening an expedition to place Mary Stuart upon the English throne (he had impaled her arms with England's following Mary I's death, and proclaimed her the rightful queen of England)?

If all that could be overcome and they did marry, what sort of effects would that have on Europe; in England, and within Spain? What would occur in France?

It is possible if Mary chooses to marry off Elizabeth to Philip II instead of her marrying Philip II herself.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

It is possible if Mary chooses to marry off Elizabeth to Philip II instead of her marrying Philip II herself.

Mary did initially show interest in marrying Charles V, but his health at the time was not good and he instead proposed his son. Maybe if Charles V is in better health and can marry Mary instead? Charles V was obviously interested in keeping England aligned with the Habsburgs... Philip II marrying Elizabeth in 1553-1554 could remove some of the focus around her as a source of opposition. Philip II would likely go through with the marriage if Charles V thought it prudent... would he?

 

[eliamartin65]

Mary did initially show interest in marrying Charles V, but his health at the time was not good and he instead proposed his son. Maybe if Charles V is in better health and can marry Mary instead? Charles V was obviously interested in keeping England aligned with the Habsburgs... Philip II marrying Elizabeth in 1553-1554 could remove some of the focus around her as a source of opposition. Philip II would likely go through with the marriage if Charles V thought it prudent... would he?

This is a much better scenario IMO. If Mary is childless as OTL, Philip and Elizabeth inherit England and possibly the Netherlands.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

This is a much better scenario IMO. If Mary is childless as OTL, Philip and Elizabeth inherit England and possibly the Netherlands.

I definitely agree. I think my main concern is if Elizabeth is out of the country when Mary dies (quite likely: she won't be allowed to stay in England as a mere princess), what sort of troubles / chaos that might cause.

 

[Aluma]

I definitely agree. I think my main concern is if Elizabeth is out of the country when Mary dies (quite likely: she won't be allowed to stay in England as a mere princess), what sort of troubles / chaos that might cause.

Imagining the whole Invincible Armada thing but now with Liz on the spanish side

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Mary did initially show interest in marrying Charles V, but his health at the time was not good and he instead proposed his son. Maybe if Charles V is in better health and can marry Mary instead? Charles V was obviously interested in keeping England aligned with the Habsburgs...

If Mary married Karl, the corollary was that Elizabeth would marry the widower Emperor Ferdinand, not Felipe. And if Ferdinand refused, his namesake son was up to bat. Prior to marrying Mary, Felipe II as a husband for Elizabeth was only in the 1537-1539 (between shortly before the death of Anne Boleyn and the Franco-Imperial alliance that caused the Anne of Cleves match) and 1545-1547 (the death of Maria Manuela and Henry VIII) windows.

there a way for the political situation to be ruinous enough that Elizabeth believes her only choice is to seek Spanish protection by marrying the King of Spain, sort of a situation where she's forced into it?

Have Mary, QoS' phantom pregnancy by François II either be real or delay the news that it is a false pregnancy from arriving in England. It arrived basically while Felipe was making his final offer for Elizabeth’s hand before he married Élisabeth de Valois IIRC

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

This is a much better scenario IMO. If Mary is childless as OTL, Philip and Elizabeth inherit England and possibly the Netherlands.

Is the brothers wife thing only full brotehr or sister or mabye half to marry Elizabeth and mary.
I was thinking she might marry Eric of Sweden, like in one of my Tls because he was Protestant.
Still quite good scenario though.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Is the brothers wife thing only full brotehr or sister or mabye half to marry Elizabeth and mary.

it was a bullshit excuse dreamed up by Henry VIII trying to get his own way. As evidenced by the fact that Katherine cited a contrariant verse that said it was a man's duty to sire a child by his childless brother's widow so that his name may not be blotted out*.
This was also the period when the pope was nicknamed "the king of Spain's chaplain", and for wives nos. 4 and (potentially) 5, Felipe would've married Marguerite de Valois or Elisabeth of Austria (sisters of his previous wives who had left issue).

* @Zygmunt Stary can correct me, but I think Sigismund August used a similar argument when he was considering having his match to Katharina of Austria annulled, didn't he?

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

it was a bullshit excuse dreamed up by Henry VIII trying to get his own way. As evidenced by the fact that Katherine cited a contrariant verse that said it was a man's duty to sire a child by his childless brother's widow so that his name may not be blotted out*.
This was also the period when the pope was nicknamed "the king of Spain's chaplain", and for wives nos. 4 and (potentially) 5, Felipe would've married Marguerite de Valois or Elisabeth of Austria (sisters of his previous wives who had left issue).

* @Zygmunt Stary can correct me, but I think Sigismund August used a similar argument when he was considering having his match to Katharina of Austria annulled, didn't he?

Ok thanks

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

it was a bullshit excuse dreamed up by Henry VIII trying to get his own way. As evidenced by the fact that Katherine cited a contrariant verse that said it was a man's duty to sire a child by his childless brother's widow so that his name may not be blotted out*.
This was also the period when the pope was nicknamed "the king of Spain's chaplain", and for wives nos. 4 and (potentially) 5, Felipe would've married Marguerite de Valois or Elisabeth of Austria (sisters of his previous wives who had left issue).

* @Zygmunt Stary can correct me, but I think Sigismund August used a similar argument when he was considering having his match to Katharina of Austria annulled, didn't he?

Yeah, SIIA used the fact he was previously married to Katharina's sister as ground of potential dissolution, yes

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Yeah, SIIA used the fact he was previously married to Katharina's sister as ground of potential dissolution, yes

can you remember what year that was BTW?

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

can you remember what year that was BTW?

Late 1550s.

 

[FalconHonour]

Okay, I know it would never have happened, but inspired by @eliamartin65 's suggestion that Elizabeth marry Phillip in 1554 (perhaps as Mary's reaction to the Jane Grey rebellion)

Phillip II of Spain (1527-1598) m. Maria Manuela (1527-1545) (a) Elizabeth I (1533-1603) (b)

1a) Carlos, Prince of Asturias (b.1545) m. Elisabeth de Valois (b.1545)
2b) Maria (1556-1562)
3b) Isabel (b.1558) m. Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1552)
4b) Juan Enrique, [Later Henry IX), Prince of Wales, Lord of the Netherlands (b.1560) m. Countess Maria of Nassau (b.1556)
5b) Felipe Antonio, Duke of Milan and York (1561-1562)
6b) Catalina (b.1564) m. Francis III of France, King of Scotland b.1561 [1]
7b) Anna (b.1568), Duchess of Bavaria m Christoph, Duke of Bavaria (b.1570) [2]

[1] A posthumous son for Francis II of France and Mary Queen of Scots
[2] A surviving eldest son of William V of Bavaria.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

So, let’s go with Kellan’s idea of MoS actually being pregnant in 1559—perhaps the French court and even more bold in this future Franco-Scottish heir, and it’s born a boy. This would absolutely spook the English, most especially the Protestant party around Elizabeth; and Spain as well, as they would have no desire to see Mary possibly become Queen—especially her heir possibly uniting France and the British Isles into one power bloc.

Obviously the religious situation in France quickly deteriorated following Henri II’s death but regardless, let’s say there is a real threat of France attempting an invasion of England—and perhaps fears that a segment of the Catholic population might support Mary Stuart’s claim. This is enough to spook Elizabeth into accepting Philip’s offer of marriage—it’s for England’s protection against an external threat and to maintain the Anglo-Spanish alliance.

If Henri II still dies as IOTL, France will likely be riven with religious conflict; turning the marriage into a spoiled egg of sorts—one needed in that moment, but less useful now. Though Francis II still dying IOTL and his and Mary’s son becoming King of France could cause issues too, especially if he comes of age and is able to reestablish authority.

Or perhaps Henri II can survive, meaning France continues to be a credible threat in the near future.

 

[eliamartin65]

So, let’s go with Kellan’s idea of MoS actually being pregnant in 1559—perhaps the French court and even more bold in this future Franco-Scottish heir, and it’s born a boy. This would absolutely spook the English, most especially the Protestant party around Elizabeth; and Spain as well, as they would have no desire to see Mary possibly become Queen—especially her heir possibly uniting France and the British Isles into one power bloc.

Obviously the religious situation in France quickly deteriorated following Henri II’s death but regardless, let’s say there is a real threat of France attempting an invasion of England—and perhaps fears that a segment of the Catholic population might support Mary Stuart’s claim. This is enough to spook Elizabeth into accepting Philip’s offer of marriage—it’s for England’s protection against an external threat and to maintain the Anglo-Spanish alliance.

If Henri II still dies as IOTL, France will likely be riven with religious conflict; turning the marriage into a spoiled egg of sorts—one needed in that moment, but less useful now. Though Francis II still dying IOTL and his and Mary’s son becoming King of France could cause issues too, especially if he comes of age and is able to reestablish authority.

Or perhaps Henri II can survive, meaning France continues to be a credible threat in the near future.

I'm in favor of Henri II surviving.

 

[mrmandias]

OTL sucks, this is an amazing set of PODs.
The Franco-Scottish facing down the Anglo-Dutch Iberians, amazing