But the WAllies haven’t landed in France yet so who knows what they can take either? I argue that the Soviets can easily get through much of Eastern Europe considering how badly the Germans ravaged it.
Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
I think that it's just very possible that the Soviets have less manpower to deal with two fronts, but it's very possible that the Soviets get through all of Eastern Europe. I think at the very least the Soviets would get to Poland.
That also depends on how fast the WAllies can send their forces through Europe. And as a participant the Soviets are gonna want their share of occupying Germany.
Also, while Soviets attention is divided between the actual Eastern Front from OTL and Turkey same is essentially true for the WAllies as well.
Soviets will almost certainly have less of the Balkans compared to OTL but I wouldn't be so sure that they would occupy much less of Poland and Germany in comparison to OTL.
Soviets will almost certainly have less of the Balkans compared to OTL but I wouldn't be so sure that they would occupy much less of Poland and Germany in comparison to OTL.
Dunno about the Balkans. The WAllies are gonna land some forces in the Levant and Turkey. I still see things going mostly business as usual like OTL otherwise.
Well, Greece is already in the fight and solidly on the side of the WAllies. One figures they would be able to liberate more land before the Red Army reaches there. For example Albania and parts of Yugoslavia seems likely (especially as, iirc, there is still a not insignificant Royal Yugoslav Army in exile that is around, so Tito and his partisans are not likely to have as much prestige out of victory/liberation/fighting against the Axis as they did OTL).
As for Levant and Turkey, Fairly certain there is already an allied Army around Syria/Cilicia doing some fighting. Even if WAllies direct no further troops in that direction the fact that those troops are there instead of elsewhere probably impacts the Western Front.
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So you're saying that the WAllies might get more of the Balkans but the Soviets could get more of Germany and Austria?
Also, given the respective war fronts positions would seems likely that very least Bulgaria should be included,too...
And, Romania, barring some allied assisted general insurrection, its liberation, like OTL Czechoslovakia, would likely depend on both the German resistance and/or from the Interallied agreements on their respective influence spheres/occupation zones...
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tbf my thoughts are the the WAllies and Soviets border would be Serbia-Bulgaria in the Balkans and Germany in Western Europe. Anything more would be due to the WAllies doing better due to the German war effort collapsing quicker and the Soviets having to deal with turkey.
Regarding România does king Nicolae has descendants? Will he like Mihai try a coup against Codreanu?
Nah, the Danube continues to be the border between civilisation and barbarity lol
I guess rat race is the wrong term but I meant the way that the Germans very quickly abandoned the Balkans in late 1944/early 45
Part 137
Bari, December 9th, 1943
Several wrecked ships could still be seen around the port, the previous week Wever's boys had given the Allies a very pointed reminder of how dangerous they still could be when over a hundred Ju-88 and He-177 bombers had hit the port sinking over two dozen ships. But the port was still operating and the men of the 7th Infantry Brigade were unloading from the transports without a hitch. A second convoy was already on its way from Ireland bringing the 3rd Infantry Brigade and would soon be followed by 1st brigade. Then the 1st Irish Division would be on its way to join the 5th US Army in the struggle to liberate Rome.
Kerch, Crimea, December 11th, 1943
Romanian Mountain troops captured mount Mithridates in the center of the city. But the Germans and Romanians would fail to push the Soviets out of the beachhead they had managed to secure at Yenikale. Already the Soviet Azov flotilla under real admiral Gorshkov had landed 75,000 men with nearly 600 guns in the beachhead.
Athens, December 14th, 1943
Nikolai Novikov, looked aghast at the sheet of Rizospastis in front of him. At least someone in the party's central committee had had the good sense to appraise him in time. He grabbed the phone to call Zachariadis while there was still time. The paper accusing the bourgeois parties they were going to sell out the national aspirations of the Greeks of Constantinople for union with the motherland would die in its cradle.
Central Italy, December 16th, 1943
The British X Corps crossed the Garigliano, beginning the attack on the German Winter Line. It would be followed three days later by the main thrust on the Rapido river by the US II Army Corps and the Italian Liberation Corps, 57,000 men strong under Sante Garibaldi's brother Peppino, while the French Expeditionary Corps under Alphonse Juin attacked to their right.
Malatya, December 18th, 1943
The 31st Indian Armoured Division launched a limited thrust towards Malatya. With the roads all over Anatolia turned into mud any offensive on a larger scale was impossible. The South-Anatolian front being denuded of forces to reinforce Italy was not helping much either. Since the end of the last major offensive in Anatolia back in early October Slim had , had to give up the entire XVIII Corps with the veteran 8th and 10th Indian divisions and two armoured brigades while his two Assyrian brigades had been amalgamated with units of his two remaining Indian divisions to keep them up to strength. His sole consolation had been that the Arab Legion was being further expanded, by now to an under-strength division of 12,000 men. But as long as Turkish forces were kept tied down in South-Eastern Anatolia and bleeding, Slim was accomplishing his mission.
Piraeus, December 20th, 1943
The men of the 1st and 7th Infantry Regiments of the Greek II Infantry Division begun embarking on the transports that would carry them to Naples. The division under Euripidis Bakirtzis had conducted the successful naval landings to the rear of the Bulgarians at Platamon back in September. Along the transports a sizeable Greek squadron, including the battleship Salamis and most Greek landing craft was heading west to join the Allied fleet in central Mediterranean.
Mudros bay, Lemnos , December 21st, 1943
Averof replaced Lemnos on station, Lemnos along the French heavy cruisers Duquesne and Suffren were heading west. It looked unlikely that the Turkish navy would try to venture in the Aegean, it hadn't done so in force since the battle of Chios two years ago, but the Allies were not taking any chances, keeping a cruiser and a destroyer flottila always on station. Chakmak had every reason to want the constant flow of reinforcements sailing east to Smyrna interrupted and would be anything but shy to sacrifice the navy to achieve it, particularly given how German and Turkish submarines were being hunted down. Turkey had begun the war with 14 submarines. By now it was down to four.
Ebro river, December 24th, 1943
The second Spanish civil war, or the second phase of the civil war, disagreements existed if it had been a single conflict or two separate conflicts, had dragged on for two and a half years in part due to fears of German intervention on the part of the Spanish provisional government under general Ochoa. But German armies crossing the Pyrenees in support of the Falangists looked by now rather unlikely. 362,000 soldiers went to the offensive that hopefully would end the war on Christmas eve...
North Cape, December 26th, 1943
The convoy struggling on its way to Russia, with 19 merchantmen and only two destroyers for escort had looked tempting. Tempting enough for Tirpitz to take to the sea to intercept it. Before managing to intercept the convoy, Tirpitz had been intercepted herself by HMS Anson and HMS Howe instead. And that was the end of the last of the German battleships.
Several wrecked ships could still be seen around the port, the previous week Wever's boys had given the Allies a very pointed reminder of how dangerous they still could be when over a hundred Ju-88 and He-177 bombers had hit the port sinking over two dozen ships. But the port was still operating and the men of the 7th Infantry Brigade were unloading from the transports without a hitch. A second convoy was already on its way from Ireland bringing the 3rd Infantry Brigade and would soon be followed by 1st brigade. Then the 1st Irish Division would be on its way to join the 5th US Army in the struggle to liberate Rome.
Kerch, Crimea, December 11th, 1943
Romanian Mountain troops captured mount Mithridates in the center of the city. But the Germans and Romanians would fail to push the Soviets out of the beachhead they had managed to secure at Yenikale. Already the Soviet Azov flotilla under real admiral Gorshkov had landed 75,000 men with nearly 600 guns in the beachhead.
Athens, December 14th, 1943
Nikolai Novikov, looked aghast at the sheet of Rizospastis in front of him. At least someone in the party's central committee had had the good sense to appraise him in time. He grabbed the phone to call Zachariadis while there was still time. The paper accusing the bourgeois parties they were going to sell out the national aspirations of the Greeks of Constantinople for union with the motherland would die in its cradle.
Central Italy, December 16th, 1943
The British X Corps crossed the Garigliano, beginning the attack on the German Winter Line. It would be followed three days later by the main thrust on the Rapido river by the US II Army Corps and the Italian Liberation Corps, 57,000 men strong under Sante Garibaldi's brother Peppino, while the French Expeditionary Corps under Alphonse Juin attacked to their right.
Malatya, December 18th, 1943
The 31st Indian Armoured Division launched a limited thrust towards Malatya. With the roads all over Anatolia turned into mud any offensive on a larger scale was impossible. The South-Anatolian front being denuded of forces to reinforce Italy was not helping much either. Since the end of the last major offensive in Anatolia back in early October Slim had , had to give up the entire XVIII Corps with the veteran 8th and 10th Indian divisions and two armoured brigades while his two Assyrian brigades had been amalgamated with units of his two remaining Indian divisions to keep them up to strength. His sole consolation had been that the Arab Legion was being further expanded, by now to an under-strength division of 12,000 men. But as long as Turkish forces were kept tied down in South-Eastern Anatolia and bleeding, Slim was accomplishing his mission.
Piraeus, December 20th, 1943
The men of the 1st and 7th Infantry Regiments of the Greek II Infantry Division begun embarking on the transports that would carry them to Naples. The division under Euripidis Bakirtzis had conducted the successful naval landings to the rear of the Bulgarians at Platamon back in September. Along the transports a sizeable Greek squadron, including the battleship Salamis and most Greek landing craft was heading west to join the Allied fleet in central Mediterranean.
Mudros bay, Lemnos , December 21st, 1943
Averof replaced Lemnos on station, Lemnos along the French heavy cruisers Duquesne and Suffren were heading west. It looked unlikely that the Turkish navy would try to venture in the Aegean, it hadn't done so in force since the battle of Chios two years ago, but the Allies were not taking any chances, keeping a cruiser and a destroyer flottila always on station. Chakmak had every reason to want the constant flow of reinforcements sailing east to Smyrna interrupted and would be anything but shy to sacrifice the navy to achieve it, particularly given how German and Turkish submarines were being hunted down. Turkey had begun the war with 14 submarines. By now it was down to four.
Ebro river, December 24th, 1943
The second Spanish civil war, or the second phase of the civil war, disagreements existed if it had been a single conflict or two separate conflicts, had dragged on for two and a half years in part due to fears of German intervention on the part of the Spanish provisional government under general Ochoa. But German armies crossing the Pyrenees in support of the Falangists looked by now rather unlikely. 362,000 soldiers went to the offensive that hopefully would end the war on Christmas eve...
North Cape, December 26th, 1943
The convoy struggling on its way to Russia, with 19 merchantmen and only two destroyers for escort had looked tempting. Tempting enough for Tirpitz to take to the sea to intercept it. Before managing to intercept the convoy, Tirpitz had been intercepted herself by HMS Anson and HMS Howe instead. And that was the end of the last of the German battleships.
So it seems that the Bari Raid was less successful ITTL, no SS John Harvey in the port I guess...
It would be a nice touch if Irish soldiers would liberate Rome and see their beloved Pope!
The Communists being an acceptable section of the coalition who's fighting the Nazis would have interesting consequences: would we get a democratic socialist party?
I also wonder where'll the Assyrian regiments be at the end. They'd probably be fighting forces by the end of the war, and I can see them allying with the Kurd regiments to assert their independence asking with the Israelis against the Arabs.
Considering that the Greeks and everyone else are getting into Italy I wonder if we'd see Rome fall earlier than otl, and considering that Italy as a much more substantial army I wonder would they lose Istria ittl.
Finally is an Austria that doesn't rebel at the end of the war possible?
I also wonder where'll the Assyrian regiments be at the end. They'd probably be fighting forces by the end of the war, and I can see them allying with the Kurd regiments to assert their independence asking with the Israelis against the Arabs.
Considering that the Greeks and everyone else are getting into Italy I wonder if we'd see Rome fall earlier than otl, and considering that Italy as a much more substantial army I wonder would they lose Istria ittl.
Finally is an Austria that doesn't rebel at the end of the war possible?
The prospect of a NATO Ireland is so interesting.
That's a major butterfly especially for so early. Peppino can be trusted and if the Italians make a decent showing, I expect them to slowly increase their forces and cover more and more of the secondary sectors of the front, especially from summer 1944 onwards.
Both the Turks and the Greeks have used Moudros bay for some time now. It is more important to them than to the OTL Kriegsmarine. By the end of the war, it should be developed into a major base. It will come handy in a few years when the Soviets start bulding up Biga.
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