No f-15 sale to Japan make it own fighter
- Thread starter NATO1949
- Start date
The Japanese were looking for an interceptor so the most likely option would have been the Tornado F3, it was offered to them afterall. The Tornado was intended to loiter in the GIUK gap and bounce Russian Bears and Backfires in wartime, this was pretty close to what the Japanese were looking for, it was also cheaper than the F15. The Mirage 4000 was a prototype inthe same way that the Bae EAP was and would have needed a lot of work to become an actual combat aircraft.
The problem is the F3 didn't achieve IOC until 1989, the F-15J achieved IOC in 1982. If they are not getting Eagles or Tomcats I think Mitsubishi would work with McDD on a seriously upgraded F-4.
The Japanese were offered the ADV which first flew in 1979 though Panavia were working on it several years earlier, if the JASDF had been interested they could have signed onto the programme. The F2 was a batch of 12 pre-production aircraft, the F3 entered service in 1989.
The original plan for the pre-production F2's was they were going to be rebuilt as SEAD units. The whole thing was costed and there were plans to have some RAF pilots go through the F4 Wild Weasel training programme. Unfortunately, the F2's were trashed by a company called Airworks who butchered them to the point they were useful only as salvage.
The prototypes for the F2 did not fly until 1979 by then the F-15 had been operational for several years and had even seen combat with Israel and I thought F2 didn't even achieve IOC with the RAF until around 1984 and didn't it have problems (hence the move to the F3 rather quickly)? That's why I think that if they don't get the F-15, even if they do end up signing on to the Tornado they will need an interim solution like a seriously upgraded F-4.
The ADV was offered to Japan back in the mid-70's when they started looking for an F4 replacement, Panavia were looking for additional partners and a sale of the ADV may well have lead to IDV sales to Japan, though no one ever thought it was going to take 10 years from first flight to get a working fighter. However it was always a long shot given the close relationship between Mitsubishi and McDonnell Douglas. Pretty much every Western combat aircraft manufacturer put something forward including Mitsibishi but they picked the F15 instead.
If they had picked the ADV would Mitsubishi have built them like they did the F-4 and F -15?
The Super Phantom is a good candidate. Boeing wanted to work with local industry on the plane, and Mitsubishi has experience building the Phantom so they can make new-builds instead of having to refurbish existing planes.
The Japanese would insist on it; the license-production was supposed to build up their aviation industry.
Other than that, though, the only other option is the Tomcat, probably an F-14B model with new engines. Unless the Japanese want to go full clean-sheet indigenous with imported engines.
Probably too early for that, though. The Japanese weren't confident about pulling that off until after they'd built the F-15J.
So what are the odds of the USN, with Japan as a major buyer, considering advanced F-14s instead of the A-12?
SsgtC
Banned
Slim. The Tomcat was an Interceptor and Air Superiority Fighter. Moving mud was not it's job. Particularly in this time frame. The Intruder was 30 year old tech and due for replacement. The F-14 was still considered state-of-the-art
I actually have always wondered if Japan coming onboard the Tornado ADV program could also lead to the RAAF acquiring the ADV as well.
That said, with an avionics upgrade the F-14 would've been really good at moving mud. That bird has payload and legs for days.
Fitted with a LANTIRN pod it was good at moving mud and that was actually a very inexpensive upgrade.
The problem is that the F-14A+/B with the new engines did not achieve IOC until the late 1980s and the D did not achieve IOC until 90 or 91. I think during Desert Storm only one of the five carriers with Tomcats had A+ models (I will check that). If the Japanese (or anyone else) gets Tomcats in the early to mid-1980s they are getting A models with crappy engines.
SsgtC
Banned
Yeah. May Dick Cheney forever burn in hell for his crusade to kill the Tomcat and Grumman. If only Grumman had developed the F-14D a few years earlier...
SsgtC
Banned
I could have sworn that one of the carriers had a squadron of D model Tomcats onboard during Desert Storm