Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
I think people forget how intricate they could get with this photography. Sidney Cotton was able to get amazing results and he would 'Cottinize ' Spitfires and Mosquitoes so they could get even more speed out of their aircraft. This would mean they would basically rebuild the planes entirely and colour them a shade of blue that made them harder to spot. I really hope they have some if those planes here.
Hi Bookeater, I have based my PRU Hurricanes on what they had in North Africa.

"Hurricane Photo ReconnaissanceIn Egypt, the Service Depot at Heliopolis converted several Hurricanes Is for the role. The first three were converted in January 1941. Two carried a pair of F24 cameras with 8-inch focal length lenses. The third carried one vertical and two oblique F24s with 14-inch focal length lenses mounted in the rear fuselage, close to the trailing edge of the wing, and a fairing was built up over the lenses aft of the radiator housing. A further five Hurricanes were modified in March 1941 while two were converted in a similar manner in Malta during April 1941. During October 1941 a batch of six Hurricane IIs was converted to PR Mark II status and a final batch, thought to be of 12 aircraft, was converted in late 1941. The PR Mark II was said to be capable of slightly over 350 mph (563 km/h) and was able to reach 38,000 ft (11,600 m)"
 
The clock is getting very close to midnight - and the British are clearly concerned enough about an attack from the north to have started flying regular recon missions over Thai territory. Someone at the Thai embassy in London is no doubt composing a strongly worded letter - which the British are unlikely to care about much if the photos show evidence of the IJAAF moving in. But AFAIK there was no military cooperation between Thailand and Japan prior to the invasion in November, so all they will show is the Thais digging in and hoping to sit out the war. Nothing to see here, move along..
 
MWI 41101012 The Holiday

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Friday 10 October;

They had told him he was due a holiday, a sightseeing one, and had he ever been to Thailand, what a lovely place that was. Well, he said, he hadn’t really contemplated it really, and with the money he was sending back home monthly, he wasn’t really sure he could afford it. He mentioned the 15th Field Company of the Madras Sappers & Miners, the company he commanded, was still struggling to absorb the large intake of new recruits, as well as the two new British ECO’s he’d been given. So, they said, his senior lieutenant had enough seniority and experience to be considered for Captain, it would give him a chance to show he could step up, and it would only be for a couple of weeks. And the holiday would be on them, all expenses paid, well how could he say no.

He’d met his two companions in Penang, in the Eastern & Oriental Hotel, along with a staff officer from Malaya Command. The Indian infantry major he’d recognised from one of the battalions attached to the same brigade as himself, the other chap was a civilian, who was introduced as Collins, Irish, grey hair, red face, tall, big set guy who must have been about 50, a rice importer apparently. The staff officer, a young lieutenant called Ringer, patiently explained that Collins would be taking the two of them on a fishing holiday, starting on the upper reaches of the Pattani river, working their way down from the border to a lovely little town called Yala, before pushing onto the small seaport of Pattani.

Collins would take care of all the travel details, dealing with the locals, finding accommodation, buying supplies etc, all the staff officer asked of the two officers was to make good notes of the areas they fished and camped in, including not only the fish to be found but also the road conditions, places to camp, potential bottlenecks, what weight of car might a bridge carry, so a traveller’s guide might be produced for others who wanted to fish these areas.

They had crossed the border, Collins driving a lovely Morris eight, a four-door saloon, in a deep cherry red and black, their fishing rods tied on the roof. It was all a bit strange calling each other by their first names, and making no references to the military life. The clothing Collins had given them was both comfortable and practical, and his endless string of tales, stories and jokes had kept them entertained. Nevertheless, he was well organised and seemed to know what he was doing. It probably helped that he’d already done this type of thing twice before, but they didn’t know that.

The road was narrow and winding, single track, with passing points, and few straight stretches, not as well maintained as the roads in Malaya, and after about 20 miles they had reached the Pattani river, the road following its course, but along the contours of the hillside, about 150 feet or so up. A stretch of this had been deeply cut into the hillside with an almost vertical drop, and had the nickname of ‘The Ledge’, a particularly difficult piece of road with just a couple of passing points for two vehicles. They reached the other end, and parked up, spending the next two days checking the fishing below, and making notes, which meant for him, with his engineering knowledge, an inordinate amount of time checking the cliff faces both above and below ‘The Ledge’ for potential rock falls, to ensure they were safe.

The following three days were spent travelling the 60 odd miles into Yala, again a number of difficult points in the road with narrow bridges, and short sections of road cut into the hillside, but the fishing hadn’t really improved much, if fact despite all his other skills, Collins didn’t seem very adept at catching fish, having a couple of times paid local Thai’s for caught fish, so he could display what could be fished, for the camera.

In the morning before they arrived in Yala, they crossed the Pattani, by cable ferry, the river too wide for a single span bridge. They had shared the ferry with a couple of wooden carts, laden with rice, fruits and dried fish, along with their bullocks, which was just about all the ferry could carry, the loading and unloading along with the crossing taking nearly 20 minutes and clearly fatigued the crew, who would take an hour’s rest.

Yala held a great interest for the infantry major, who displayed an unexpected knowledge of trains. Collins introduced him to the station master, and interpreted the conversation about train times and size of trains they might expect. The major though it would be most useful for the traveller’s guide, along with a local map of Yala, which over the next two days he drew, marking on it the locations of the Railway Station, Post Office, Police Station, hotels and other useful buildings, along with some sites where a sizeable body of men could be camped.

The 25 miles of road from Yala to Pattani was travelled in a day, changing from the previous mountainous terrain and winding road, to a land farmed, with padi fields, plantations of pineapple, palm and coconut, and pastures for cattle, with straighter roads.

They stayed in Pattani for three nights, in a small but well-established hotel, and found Pattani to be a thriving riverport, with a regular steamer service to Bangkok, merchant junks, and numerous fishing boats. Again, it was mapped, with buildings of interest marked for the traveller’s guide, including the Thai Army barracks. The first two nights they ate without Collins, who was out meeting some old friends, but on the third night, having spent most of the day visiting the site where a new airfield was being built, they ate with him. They had only finished the first course, when four Asian gentlemen entered the dining room and sat at another table, across the room, ordering dinner. Two were Thai’s, one, Collins knew to be the contractor building the airfield, the other a local dignitary, the other two, it quickly became clear, were Japanese, one translating for the other.

Then it was back to Malaya, two days of steady motoring, before they found themselves back in the Eastern & Oriental greeted by the staff officer ‘Ringer’, and two colleagues who showed great interest in their travels, notes, maps and the dozen or so 35mm film cassettes taken with the Kodak camera Collins had provided. It had been a holiday quite unlike any other Major Muir had ever known.
 
Speaking of "nothing to see here, move along", I have no doubt that the perfectly innocent tourist guide that results from this harmless fishing holiday will be of great practical use to any British or Indian Army officers who happen to find themselves in southern Thailand on short notice in the future.

Slightly surprised that Muir and Collins only met two Japanese. OTL the British did send a number of holidaying officers to reconnoitre the roads to Pattani and on more than one occasion they encountered parties of very obvious Japanese Army officers doing the same thing. The Thais, who have probably noted all these off-duty-military visitors and are not stupid, are probably very worried, in a two-rival-empires-are-shaping-up-to-fight-over-our-country sort of way.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Slightly surprised that Muir and Collins only met two Japanese. OTL the British did send a number of holidaying officers to reconnoitre the roads to Pattani and on more than one occasion they encountered parties of very obvious Japanese Army officers doing the same thing. The Thais, who have probably noted all these off-duty-military visitors and are not stupid, are probably very worried, in a two-rival-empires-are-shaping-up-to-fight-over-our-country sort of way.
Hi Merrick, yes you're quite right, there was a lot of officers in Mufti, as they say, on both sides having a look around the Thai countryside, all with the Thai's turning a blind eye.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Here is some additional material...

Could this be it?

Unfortunately, I have no way to getting to The National Archives, Kew. If all goes well there should
be a Lat/Long in the Google Earth .kmz file. The Ledge jpg shows a road marker south
bound Thailand 410. I would hazard the guess that one of the locations the road marker refers
to Betong @ 41 or 48 km south. The Ledge 2 jpg has Yala @ 85 km north. If you do a Google Earth
aerial you can see how the elevation drop from the current road to the Pattani River is 160 - 170 feet.
The elevation in the area is about 560 ft dropping to 390 ft for the river.
I don't know how to drag and drop files. Or if it is even allowed in the message syste.

Here's the Lat/Long if interested: 6 deg, 00' min,59.79" sec N ; 101 deg, 12' min. 02.07" sec E
I can send my kmz and jpg files by standard email format.
Hi Nevarinemax, the famous Ledge!, yes lets try and find it.

So, I agree, it has to be along the 410, which runs from Betong in the south to the small port of Pattani, via the town of Yala, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattani–Betong_Highway

And secondly it has to run alongside the river Pattani. Now the Pattani river has been dammed, the Bang Lang Dam, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang_Lang_Dam
So the river is much larger on Google maps than it was in 1941.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
General Percival tells us it is

32. On the Kroh-Patani road, intelligence reports pointed to the fact that the most suitable place for a defensive position was a locality known as " The Ledge ", some 35-40 miles on the Thailand side of the frontier. Here the road had been cut out of a steep hillside and it seemed probable that it would be comparatively easy to block it by demolitions, though it was of course impossible to make any preparations in peace-time.
OPERATIONS OF MALAYA COMMAND, FROM STH DECEMBER, 1941 TO I5TH FEBRUARY, 1942, Lt Gen Percival.
 
Topographic map is strongly suggestive of the location here:
AOvQtLG.png


Distance is about right too - 35-40 miles by road from the Malay border.

This looks like a likely spot - narrow gap (about 1000m) between the Pattani river and the high ground, and evidence of an old road much closer to the high ground suggesting that the current road may previously have been on very boggy/impassable ground.
n5TBYfg.png
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Topographic map is strongly suggestive of the location here:

Distance is about right too - 35-40 miles by road from the Malay border.

This looks like a likely spot - narrow gap (about 1000m) between the Pattani river and the high ground, and evidence of an old road much closer to the high ground suggesting that the current road may previously have been on very boggy/impassable ground.
n5TBYfg.png
Hi pdf27, thank you for this, but unfortunately this is to far away, I'm looking at about 50 miles as the crow flies, from the 410 road leaving the Malaysian border, just south of Betong.

I've painfully followed the 410 on goggle maps using the measure distance facility it has to plot the distance along the road. All sounds very simple and should be not problem, however, we are talking about a road that existed 80 odd years ago, and has, no doubt, been improved on since then. So the course of the road may well have changed, making it smoother to drive along, whether that has increased or decreased the road length, I don't know. Betong town is a lot bigger than it was then, and has a bypass, the 5039, but I've measured the road through the town which is far more likely the original route. My other problem is the creation of the Bang Lang reservoir, which has flooded the Pattani river valley, possibly forcing the construction of parts of the road higher up the hillside.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
I actually found the Yala and Grik maps at this (Australian) location:


There appears to be 19 maps and one index map. Southern Thailand and
most of Malaya are categorized.

And now, I just found yet a GSGS map from 1941 in U of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.


There is a village(?), Ban Na Wai Bo Hin, Yala, Thailand that is 34 miles from Betong. It is several
miles beyond the Tok Ku Chae bridge on Thai 410. I am now wondering if THE LEDGE is in the
vicinity of the Ibnu Daud farm on Google Earth. The maps from 1941-45, Australian, British and Japanese indicate
that the Pattani-Betong Road does not follow the river course very far in that era. The road does follow about 150 ft.
above the Pattani River here. Later it turns inland. To be continued. Any help is appreciated.
Hi Nevarinemex, wow, you've been working hard at this. I don't think the bridge at Tok Ku Chae existed in 1941, otherwise I think they would have talked about blowing it up. This was very much a backwater, the Thai's would have put very little investment into this area, so its likely the road started out as just a widen existing path that followed the river valley course. However I think you are right about the general area, and the road just south of the Tok Ku Chae bridge is our likely area.

However, if you come back to the K.M.38 bridge, another later addition to the road network, and you use google street view of the 410 here, you clearly have a large cliff above the road. This would seem to be the spot, but its only 23 miles from the border, much shorter than suggested.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
The clock is getting very close to midnight - and the British are clearly concerned enough about an attack from the north to have started flying regular recon missions over Thai territory. Someone at the Thai embassy in London is no doubt composing a strongly worded letter - which the British are unlikely to care about much if the photos show evidence of the IJAAF moving in. But AFAIK there was no military cooperation between Thailand and Japan prior to the invasion in November, so all they will show is the Thais digging in and hoping to sit out the war. Nothing to see here, move along..

As the nether the Japanese or Thai’s have radar or a deadicated observer corps at this time, and provided the photo reconnaissance flights are flying above 20,000 feet, and do not leave a noticeable con trail. The odds are that very few will see the aircraft, and there is little chance of those who see them, being able to identify them. There is a major difference between the airspace in most of Europe, and that in the Far East, and even in Europe there were large areas that reconnaissance aircraft were able to fly over, without being detected. While the Thai’s might have good reason to suspect that the British are carrying out photo reconnaissance over their territory, it’s at this time very difficult to prove. And what can the Thai’s or Japanese do to prevent this from occurring. After all the Thai’s make a diplomatic protest, and if the British deny that they are flying photo reconnaissance missions, what can they do.

RR.
 

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
Looking at the Ledge @ 23 miles, I wondered if the British appreciated that the Thai's moved over to the metric measurement of length in 1923, did the British mistake kilometre stone markers for miles? 23 miles equates to 37 Km's which fits in nicely with Percival's estimate of 35-40 miles.
 
MWI 41101120 A Night Out On The Town

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Saturday 11 October;

The girls had been glad to be able to get away for the weekend, Third Officer Peggy James, her best friend Joan Seymour, and two other CPO Wrens had been granted a weekend pass. They were taking advantage of an offer to stay at a big bungalow just outside Singapore, courtesy of the wife of an oil executive, doing her bit for the war effort. Having arrived Friday at 7pm, just in time for a quick change of clothes, and leaving their bags unpacked, they had taken a taxi into town, in time to catch the 9.15pm showing of “Caught in the Draft” with Bob Hope and Dorothy Lamour at the Cathy. A few drinks after, and then taxi back and bed. This morning had been a leisurely breakfast, before another taxi into town, and some retail therapy, especially for a dress to wear tonight.

Since arriving from the UK in a number of drafts back in the spring, there had been little free time in Singapore for the Wrens, one weekend a month, although they had all gained a lovely golden tan, swimming and relaxing by the swimming pool or playing tennis, while based on Kanji Station, along with becoming adept at playing bridge, whist and darts. Commanding the Wrens was Second Officer Betty Archdale, one time captain of the England Women’s cricket team, who cut a big matronly figure that wasn’t to be messed with. Having said that Peggy found her very helpful and understanding, and a fierce defender for her Wrens against all comers.

They worked four watches, six Wrens to a watch, along with another six as day workers and stand ins, for sickness or emergencies. Other telegraphists monitored Royal Navy and allied radio frequencies, but the Wrens monitored IJN traffic, trained in the Japanese Wabun code, which used an adapted Morse code, using Kana characters instead of letters of the alphabet. This skill was reflected in them all being ranked as chief petty officers or above. Before their arrival, there had been just over a dozen operators doing this work, but now, with them, the amount of data they were able to collect had increased fourfold. However, this was still raw data, and was useless unless decoded.

Arriving with them in May had been a unique piece of equipment, invented by a British professor of zoology and oceanography, Alistair Hardy, which allowed for “radio finger printing” (RFP), the individual transmitter sending a signal that they intercepted could be identified by its transmitter key signature. A very high-speed cine camera with particularly sensitive film recorded the visual presentations of wireless transmissions, as they were displayed on a cathode-ray tube. By looking closely at the film, not only could the design of the transmitter be seen, but the split second of film as the transmitter key was pressed, allowed them to identify the transmitter itself, and thereby the ship. The technology was new, having been built in early 1941, a unit of equipment had been sent out to Singapore, and the under the charge of Capt McClelland RN, a library of ship transmitters had been built up of the major IJN warships.

The raw Wabun code data, along with RFP identification, was sent over by telex to the FECB offices located in the Naval base. Here a team of cryptographers were working on trying to break the Japanese Naval code. Led mostly by American successes, about 10% of the code JN-25 was being read, until December 1940, the Japanese replacing it with JN-25b. Now, despite the work of the Americans at Station CAST, based at Cavite naval base, along with a sister station, Hypo at Pearl Harbor, the Dutch in Java at the Bandung Technical College in Kamer 14 (Room 14), and the FECB, the new code was proving to be difficult to break.

Nevertheless, using the little they could decipher, RFP, and matching up what they knew, taken from the cracked Japanese Dockyard code, along with using radio triangulation of broadcasted signals they were able to track the movement of major Japanese warships to some degree. But the last couple of months had seen their workloads steadily increase, as Japanese Naval activity grew, providing more radio traffic to intercept and decrypt. And this brought surprises.

Firstly, in mid-August, a new major transmitter had come on line, not as yet identified, which created great interest in British Naval Intelligence. Transmitting from the Yokosuka area, its movement establishing it was a new major warship, possibly undergoing sea trials before fully fitting out, making it likely to be one of the three aircraft carriers currently thought to be being built in Japan, 15,000 tons, 30 knot top speed and an aircraft complement of 50-60 aircraft. The need for more information helped make the decision to send a further 30 Wabun trained Wrens to Singapore, to provide more raw data, as well as another 10 cryptologists for the code breaking team based in the FECB buildings in Singapore Naval Base. These would duly arrive in late November.

But what had really thrown intelligence into a tizz, was the emergence of a second transmitter at the end of September, exactly the same new design, with same strength of signal broadcasting, again around Yokosuka. A second carrier, surely not so quickly, but then it must be the first of the new battlecruisers believed to be building, the Ibuki commissioning, a 20,000-ton ship armed with 12-inch guns. Now they had a Wren sitting over the known broadcast frequencies of both ships, awaiting to collect the next signal data. Yes, life was very busy for the Wrens.

Saturday night, and Singapore was buzzing, its many entertainment establishments catering for a wide range of customers. All three showings of ‘Meet John Doe’ at the Alhambra were completely sold out, as was the Cathy, Garrick, Pavilion and Majestic. The Theatre Royal was packing them in, its showing of Manimekhalai, a Tamal musical extravaganza, was widely popular with the Indian Army. The Dinner Dances were also fully booked, Raffles offering a display by the American Ballroom and Aerobatic dancers, Rosalie and Louis. While all the bars along Bugis Street were doing a roaring trade, the Provost and Master at Arms patrols were readying themselves for a busy night ahead.

The girls had come back from shopping mid-afternoon, having had lunch out, armed with their purchases, taken a bath and with their hair and makeup complete, were back out, dressed to kill. A cab ride later they were entering the ballroom of the Sea View Hotel, just as Reller’s Band struck up a new song, their singer crooning,

“On a little street in Singapore
We ‘d meet beside a lotus-covered door
A veil of moonlight on a lonely face
How pale the hands that held me in embrace”

A waiter led them to their table, their entrance noticed by at least a dozen young men, mostly officers in uniform, the girls subtly swinging their hips as they walked, just like they had practiced back in barracks. After they had bought their first drink, they didn’t expect to have to buy another, the price, a tick on their dance card. Yes, the girls were having a night out on the town!
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
A group of young ladies enjoy a well deserved break and night on the town, with given the lack of strict rationing in the colony, a chance to spend their pay. Odds are given the date, and the increasing work load, this will be the penultimate relaxed break they will get before the balloon goes up. While the recent changes in the Japanese code have temporarily reduced their ability to break into the meat of the Japanese signals, the combination of better staffing and technical support, is beginning to show results. The various Allied intelligence services are beginning to work together, and develop a much clearer picture of Japanese fleet deployments and material capabilities. Unfortunately this will not prevent the Japanese from being able by going dark, and other deception tactics, from surprising the Americans at Pearl Harbour. The faults in the American intelligence system, which contributed to this major failure have yet to be resolved. However the increasing take of Japanese wireless and radio communications, along with the often overlooked contribution of an effective filing system. Will once hostilities commence, and the Japanese signallers under war time pressures begin to make more mistakes, allow greater penetration into the Japanese codes. And providing that the British manage to retain their control over Malaysia, and their are not forced to disband this signals intelligence command, and relocate it elsewhere, with all the subsequent disruption, loss/misplace of files and personnel. The British should by the end of 1942, have in Singapore a signals intelligence system, every bit as good as the one in Britain. Able to provide the regional commanders with up to date intelligence on the Japanese, and share with predominately the Americans increasing amounts of relevant intelligence.

RR.
 
Hi pdf27, thank you for this, but unfortunately this is to far away, I'm looking at about 50 miles as the crow flies, from the 410 road leaving the Malaysian border, just south of Betong.

I've painfully followed the 410 on goggle maps using the measure distance facility it has to plot the distance along the road. All sounds very simple and should be not problem, however, we are talking about a road that existed 80 odd years ago, and has, no doubt, been improved on since then. So the course of the road may well have changed, making it smoother to drive along, whether that has increased or decreased the road length, I don't know. Betong town is a lot bigger than it was then, and has a bypass, the 5039, but I've measured the road through the town which is far more likely the original route. My other problem is the creation of the Bang Lang reservoir, which has flooded the Pattani river valley, possibly forcing the construction of parts of the road higher up the hillside.
OK, looking into the distances here I'm not sure what is going on. Using a GPS plot (https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators), the point I've highlighted is 49.2 miles on a great circle route, but looks much further as soon as you try to do it by even what appears to be a direct road route. Given how flat everything else is between here and there, I'm finding it quite hard to discount that position.
2mDOSg1.png


If you're looking closer I think you've only got two plausible locations, but they're very close to the border and IMHO far too close to be what is described:
11HkOZ6.png
 
A group of young ladies enjoy a well deserved break and night on the town, with given the lack of strict rationing in the colony, a chance to spend their pay. Odds are given the date, and the increasing work load, this will be the penultimate relaxed break they will get before the balloon goes up. While the recent changes in the Japanese code have temporarily reduced their ability to break into the meat of the Japanese signals, the combination of better staffing and technical support, is beginning to show results. The various Allied intelligence services are beginning to work together, and develop a much clearer picture of Japanese fleet deployments and material capabilities. Unfortunately this will not prevent the Japanese from being able by going dark, and other deception tactics, from surprising the Americans at Pearl Harbour. The faults in the American intelligence system, which contributed to this major failure have yet to be resolved. However the increasing take of Japanese wireless and radio communications, along with the often overlooked contribution of an effective filing system. Will once hostilities commence, and the Japanese signallers under war time pressures begin to make more mistakes, allow greater penetration into the Japanese codes. And providing that the British manage to retain their control over Malaysia, and their are not forced to disband this signals intelligence command, and relocate it elsewhere, with all the subsequent disruption, loss/misplace of files and personnel. The British should by the end of 1942, have in Singapore a signals intelligence system, every bit as good as the one in Britain. Able to provide the regional commanders with up to date intelligence on the Japanese, and share with predominately the Americans increasing amounts of relevant intelligence.

RR.
When CAST is evacuated would it possibly head to Singapore and would that end up being a positive or maybe a negative?
 
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