List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

[Baconheimer]

I've been planning a TL for a little bit called "And Then It Got Worse," which is full of one-off scenarios where a bad situation ends up getting worse to an extreme.

Two that I have come up with are the '70s and the 2000 Presidential Election:

'70s: PoD - An Anyone But McGovern movement succeeds and Humphrey takes the '72 nomination but still loses to Nixon
Agnew resigns as VP, Nixon is taken down by Watergate, Ford pardons him and then gets assassinated in Sacramento - and then everything goes into chaos

2000: PoD - Clinton resigns over personal scandal and sitting President Al Gore picks Senator Evan Bayh as his VP, the Republicans actually got damaged over Clinton's resignation over their extremely partisan handling of what many Americans saw as not being a big deal, running as a maverick centrist, John McCain secures the nomination and shocks the country when he picks Joe Lieberman as his VP - and then the worse campaign ever happens

Things like that aren't too complicated to come up with, you get to run them out as long as they have energy.

In fact, if you want to help me with it, you can DM me and we can work on it together.

Presumably Buchanan will get a boost in the second scenario?

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

The only ticket that didn’t run in OTL on this list is John McCain and Sam Brownback... who then runs again with Sarah Palin in ‘08.

Why are all your lists so convergent?

how about this:

Al Gore/Joe Lieberman 2001-2009
Mike Huckabee/Ron Paul 2009-2017
Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2017-2021
Jim Gilmore/Rick Santorum 2021-2029

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

Convergent =/= realistic. Sometimes, it makes sense and is consistent internally within the counterfactual scenario that important figures or trends would appear in the same/similar situations as OTL, but this doesn’t appear to consider the ramifications of a Gore Administrator at all.

For example, how do you account for changes in American political culture after twenty years of Democratic rule from 1993 to 2013? Many things will be very different: careers would take different turns, the presidential hopefuls of OTL will look substantially different in a world where the New Democrats of the Nineties dominate for as long as Roosevelt and Truman, the Republican heavy-hitters of our world might hang back in elections where they are perpetually the losing party and don’t appear to be able to win back power, and so on and so forth.

Because of those changes alone, I can see this as being highly implausible and lacking in the research necessary to make a coherent and plausible alt-historical narrative.

Ok. I get your point. I am convergent. In your eyes quite convergent. I do attempt to be as realistic as possible, but apparently its impossible to be realistic with alternate history. so every scenario i make from now on will be as unrealistic and otherworldly as possible.

 

[AndrewH]

how about this:

Al Gore/Joe Lieberman 2001-2009
Mike Huckabee/Ron Paul 2009-2017
Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2017-2021
Jim Gilmore/Rick Santorum 2021-2029

You already posted this earlier in the thread, and why is the 2016 ticket exactly the same as OTL?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Clinton to win the nomination considering Gore’s success, but it’s literally just OTL 2016.

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

You already posted this earlier in the thread, and why is the 2016 ticket exactly the same as OTL?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Clinton to win the nomination considering Gore’s success, but it’s literally just OTL 2016.

Thats just the list. I have the Republican party becoming this ultraconservative/libertarian party

 

[GermanDjinn]

Ok. I get your point. I am convergent. In your eyes quite convergent. I do attempt to be as realistic as possible, but apparently its impossible to be realistic with alternate history. so every scenario i make from now on will be as unrealistic and otherworldly as possible.

*insert curb your enthusiasm theme*

 

[AndrewH]

Thats just the list. I have the Republican party becoming this ultraconservative/libertarian party

How am I supposed to know that when you posted just a list?

 

[Deleted member 100251]

Why are convergent lists such a bad thing? Honestly it’s not that bad imo.

 

[Baconheimer]

The AIPverse, I guess?

1969-1973: Richard Nixon / Spiro Agnew * (Republican)
def. 1968 Hubert Humphrey / Edmund Muskie (Democratic), George Wallace / Curtis LeMay (American Independent)
def. 1972 George Wallace / Orville Hubbard (American Independent), Henry Jackson / Shirley Chisholm (Democratic)
1973: Richard Nixon / VACANT (Republican)
1973-1975: Richard Nixon ** / Leslie Arends (Republican)
1975-1977: Leslie Arends / VACANT (Republican)
1977-1983: George Wallace * / Frank Rizzo (American Independent)
def. 1976 Leslie Arends / Howard Baker (Republican), Vance Hartke / Hugh Carey (Democratic), Mark Gravel / Lewis McCammon (Peace), Jose Angel Gurierrez / Salvadore Carpio Jr. (La Raza Unida)
def. 1980 John Connally / Chuck Percy (Republican), Jerry Brown / Philip Hart (Democratic), Xenaro Ayala / Ramsey Muniz (La Raza Unida)
1983-1984: Frank Rizzo / VACANT (American Independent)
1984: Frank Rizzo / Eldon Rudd * (American Independent)
1984: Frank Rizzo / VACANT (American Independent)
1984-1985: Frank Rizzo / VACANT (Independent)
1985-1993: Bob Dole / Richard Schweiker (Republican)
def. 1984 Gordon J. Humphrey / Margaret Heckler (American Independent), Frank Rizzo / various (Independent), Oscar "Zeta" Acosta / Peter Diamondstone (Democratic-La Raza Unida)
def. 1988 Pat Robertson / Marge Roukema (American Independent), Hector Perez Garcia / Mike Freeman (Democratic-La Raza Unida), Raul Ruiz / David McReynolds ("Liberal Democratic-La Raza Unida")
1993-1997: Malcolm Lucas / John Warner (Republican)
def. 1992 Jake Garn / Danny Lee Burton (American Independent), Jerry Brown /Eileen Anderson (Democratic-La Raza Unida)
1997-2001: Wayne LaPierre / Newt Gingrich (American Independent)
def. 1996 Malcolm Lucas / John Warner (Republican), Saul N. Ramirez / Charlene Jarvis (Popular Front)
2001-2009: Norman Schwarzkopf / Bill Richardson (Republican)
def. 2000 Wayne LaPierre / Tommy Armstrong (American Independent), H. Pua Ishibashi Jr. / Helen Hernandez (Popular Front), Bob Smith / Rudy Giuliani (write-in)
def. 2004 Dan Quayle / Hal Rogers (American Independent), Kathleen Brown / Michael Brown (Popular Front)
2009-2013: Bill Richardson / Deval Patrick (Republican)
def. 2008 Wayne LaPierre / Duncan Hunter (American Independent), Rocky Anderson / Lisa Bender (Popular Front)
2013-2017: Elliott Abrams / Piyush Jindal (Right to Life)
def. 2012 Bill Richardson / Deval Patrick (Republican), Matt Salmon / Andy McKenzie (American Independent), Beto O'Rourke / Martin Porchas (Arriba Aztlan!), Terri Bonoff / P. Michael Sturla (Popular Front)
2017-xxxx: Brian Schweitzer / Tim Ryan (Republican)
def. 2016 Elliot Abrams / Piyush Jindal (Right to Life), Andy McKenzie / Howard Mills III (American Independent), Al Green / Bob Hasegawa (Popular Front)
def. 2020 Becky Gerritson / Corey Stewart (Right to Life), Ben Stiller / Howie Morales (Popular Front) Nicholas Sarwark / Walker Stapleton (American Independent)

* - Resigned
** - Assassinated

This started out as something of a fairly standard AIPverse. Then I added in a more lasting La Raza Unida. Several hours of work later, this is what we have. I posted a WIP earlier in this thread.

Basically, the Democrats go into a decline while the AIP grows. The Republicans stagnate, but ultimately recover. In the midst of the Ethiopian War, Wallace chooses Pennsylvania Governor Frank Rizzo in 1976 to placate the moderate wing of the party. In 1980, Jerry Brown chooses former Senator Philip Hart. This is the last hurrah of the Democrats. Wallace resigns for health reasons, Rizzo takes office. Rizzo is Opposed by the right wing of the AIP and then prrimaried. He loses nomination and runs independent. Acosta disappears 1987. The AIP increasingly dysfunctional throughout 1990s and 2000s, but manages to win 1996. President LaPierre oversees a war in South Africa, where Norman Schwarzkopf gains fame. LaPierre is blamed for the worst parts of the war, while Schwarzkopf is hailed as a hero for his armored drive across the veldt on Johannesburg. Schwarkopf's term is relatively popular, and his Vice President runs and wins in 2008. Renomination of LaPierre and his subsequent loss leads to accusations that the party was not fully behind him. The Republicans nominate primary runnerup Patrick to a unity ticket. The grassroots conservatives are emboldened by the 2010 economic crash, and bolt from the AIP after the Congressional delegation votes in favor of one of Richardson's spending bills. The new Right to Life Party wins in a reaction to the "failed" Richardson administration, however the Republicans retake the White House in 2016. Their opposition is divided and the Republicans firmly control the center to center-right.

Other notes: Helen Hernandez ran for CA-30 in the 1992 Democratic primaries. Michael Brown is the DC Shadow Senator.

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

How am I supposed to know that when you posted just a list?

You can find my actual post on the last page

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

Why are convergent lists such a bad thing? Honestly it’s not that bad imo.

I dont think they're so bad either, but people are making it such a big deal. I dont get why you cant have realistic alternate history scenarios that use logical thought

 

[herkles]

Who would you recommend as a good Republican FDR?

Fiorello H. La Guardia, Earl Warren, Charles L. McNary, Hiram Johnson, and William Borah are all various progressive republicans that could take a similar role that FDR played.

 

[claybaskit]

List of presidents of france .fRom 1959 to present.

7 November 1948 – 23 December 1953)
French Fifth Republic (1958–present)[edit]
18 Charles de Gaulle
GCLH GCM CL Cg (1914) Cg (1939) CC MIV Mcg
(1890–1970) 8 January 1959 28 April 1969 1958 Union for the New Republic
(1959–1967) [23]
1965 Union of Democrats for the Republic
(1967–1969)
President of the Council of Ministers
1 June 1958 – 8 January 1959)
The President of the Senate Alain Poher deputised during the interim (28 April 1969 – 20 June 1969). [24]
19 Georges Pompidou
GCLH GCM Cg (1939)
(1911–1974) 20 June 1969 2 April 1974 [†] 1969 Union of Democrats for the Republic [25]
Prime Minister of France
14 April 1962 – 10 July 1968)
The President of the Senate Alain Poher deputised during the interim (2 April 1974 – 27 May 1974). [24]
20 Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
GCLH GCM Cg (1939) Académie
(born 1926) 27 May 1974 21 May 1981 1974 Independent Republicans
(1974–1977)
then renamed
Republican Party
(1977–1981) [26]
Minister of Economy and Finances
20 June 1969 – 27 May 1974)
21 François Mitterrand
GCLH GCM OF MR Cg (1939)
(1916–1996) 21 May 1981 17 May 1995 1981 Socialist Party [27]
1988
MP of the National Assembly for Nièvre
6 December 1962 – 21 May 1981)
22 Jacques Chirac
GCLH GCM OF CVM COMA COAL MA Algérie COEN
(born 1932) 17 May 1995 16 May 2007 1995 Rally for the Republic
(1995–2002) [28]
2002 Union for a Popular Movement
(2002–2007)
Mayor of Paris
25 March 1977 – 16 May 1995)
23 Nicolas Sarkozy
GCLH GCM
(born 1955) 16 May 2007 15 May 2012 2007 Union for a Popular Movement [29]
Minister of the Interior
2 June 2005 – 26 March 2007)
24 François Hollande
GCLH GCM
(born 1954) 15 May 2012 14 May 2017 2012 Socialist Party [30]
President of Corrèze General Council
20 March 2008 – 11 May 2012)
25 Emmanuel Macron
GCLH GCM
(born 1977) 14 May 2017 Incumbent 2017 La République En Marche! [30]
Minister of Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs
26 August 2014 – 30 August 2016)
Graphical timeline[edit]


26. France Gall

October 9, 1947, Paris, France
singer

 

[Tzaero]

I dont think they're so bad either, but people are making it such a big deal. I dont get why you cant have realistic alternate history scenarios that use logical thought

Put in footnotes and they won't go as harshly on you.

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

Put in footnotes and they won't go as harshly on you.

may you explain what footnotes are to me? im still new to this.

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

*insert curb your enthusiasm theme*

cant be angry with that

 

[Tzaero]

may you explain what footnotes are to me? im still new to this.

Notes that explain the alt-historical background behind the list, why things happen.

 

[Hydrons (Retired Account)]

Notes that explain the alt-historical background behind the list, why things happen.

are they like links?

 

[Luke_Starkiller]

This one was mainly a joke, just to clear the air. So, i made a new one, thats much more realistic than this.
Ross Perot/James Stockdale 1993-1995
Ross Perot/James Stockdale 1995-1997
Bob Dole/Jack Kemp 1997-2001
George W. Bush 2001-2005
John Kerry/John Edwards 2005-2013
Joe Biden/Bill Richardson 2013-2017
Donald Trump/Rocky De La Fuente 2017-present

Nah guys, THIS is the most realistic option

Ross Perot/Jerry Brown: 1993-1997
Ann Richards/Bob Kerrey: 1997-2003
Bob Kerrey/Bob Graham: 2003-2005
Donald Trump/Hill Harper: 2005-2009
Russ Feingold/Maria Shriver: 2009-2013
Jeb Bush/J. C. Watts: 2013-present

 

[Zachary VIII]

1945-1953: Harold Stassen/Earl Warren (Republican)
1944: Franklin D. Roosevelt/Harry S. Truman (Democratic)
1948: Cordell Hull/Tom Stewart (Democratic)
1953-1954: Harold Stassen/Wayne Morse (Republican)
1952: Hubert Humphrey/Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. (Democratic), John Bricker/Joseph McCarthy (Conservative)
1953-1964: Harold Stassen (Institutional Prosperity)
1956: Elections Canceled
1960: Earl Dodge/Harold E. Munn (Prohibition)
1964-1971: Harold Stassen/John Lindsay (Institutional Prosperity)
1964: Earl Dodge/Mark Shaw (Prohibition), None of the Above
1968: Robert Welch Jr/Charlotta Bass (Democratic Opposition), None of the Above
1971-1973: Harold Stassen/Eugene McCarthy (Institutional Prosperity)
1972: Charlotta Bass/Earl Dodge (New Opposition), Robert Welch Jr/Ezra Taft Benson (Democratic Opposition), None of the Above
1973-1981: Harold Stassen/Gus Hall (Institutional Prosperity)
1976: Elections Canceled
1980: Eugene McCarthy/John Anderson (New Democratic), Ronald Reagan/Donald DeFreeze (People's Revolutionary Alliance)
1981-1984: Harold Stassen/Eugene McCarthy (Institutional Prosperity)
1984: David Bowie/Jesse Jackson (New Democratic)
1984-1990: Harold Stassen/David Bowie (Institutional Prosperity)
1988: Ron Paul/J. B. Stoner (Homeland), John Anderson/Jim Traficant (New Democratic)
1990-2003: Ron Paul/Lyndon LaRouche (Holy Guard)
2003-2009: George Pataki/Pat Buchanan (Centralist)
2004: Angela Davis/Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (Communist)
2009-2017: Barack Obama/Joe Biden (Democratic)
2008: Jim Gilmore/Nancy Pelosi (Centralist)
2012: Jim Gilmore/Hilary Clinton (Centralist)
2017-2018: Alex Jones/Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (Democratic)
2016: Jim Gilmore/Maxine Waters (Centralist)
June to August 2018: Jim Gilmore/Ruth Bader Ginsburg (Centralist)
August 2018-000: Alex Jones (Democratic)