Gothic Empire

[Nicole]

Part I: The Gothic War
The Battle of Adrianople (378) proved to be a military disaster surpassing all others for the Roman Empire. The Gothic King, Fritigern, led his forces to an overwhelming victory against the Roman Empire, sacking the city and rampaging across Macedonia. The Roman Emperor Valens barely excaped with his life.
Fritigern then decided to follow up his victory by attempting a seige of Constantinople, despite arguements by his commanders that they could not attempt a seige of the city. Athanaric, a Visigothic chieftain, is noted to have been especially opposed.
As it were, the situation in Constantinople should not have been grim. However, Valens had fallen into a deep depression with the loss, and in fact is believed to have killed himself before the fall of the city. The Western Emperor was Gratian, still young and unable to deal with the crisis. Still, Constantinople should not have fallen. It was only due to the action of traitors in the city that it did, opening a strategic gate to the Visigothic invaders.
In January of 380 AD, Fritigern, King of the Goths, sat inside the city that had once been the capital of the Roman Empire. It is said that in shock of the victory, Athanaric converted to Christianity. Meanwhile, revolt erupted across the Eastern half of the Empire. Arabic Saracens took temporary control of large parts of the Roman Levant. Anatolia fell under the control of the Ostrogoths, invited to return by Fritigern in hopes of unifying all of the Goths under his command. In Egypt, Roman Rule barely held.
In 381, Fritigern, King of the Goths, died, and was succeeded by his old enemy, Athanaric. Meanwhile, the Emperor Gratian began to regain a grip on the situation, and appointed Theodosius to return order to the East.

 

[Nekromans]

You really don't like Italy, do you? If you had your way, I'm guessing pretty much all of Northern Italy would be Habsburg.

But continue! It sounds promising.

 

[Jammy]

I like it, looking forward to the next bit

 

[MerryPrankster]

Another incarnation of Gothic Constantinople? Fun, fun, fun.

This was one of the more popular "Eastern Empire falls in 476 AD and Western Empire lasts until 15th Century" possibilities.

 

[Nicole]

You really don't like Italy, do you? If you had your way, I'm guessing pretty much all of Northern Italy would be Habsburg.

I've already done a TL with that...
And why do I not like Italy? After all, I did get the Ostrogoths away from it...

Another incarnation of Gothic Constantinople? Fun, fun, fun.

This was one of the more popular "Eastern Empire falls in 476 AD and Western Empire lasts until 15th Century" possibilities.

Hm, I do remember that thread... (It was from Super55, who seems to be experiencing a resurgence in popularity nowadays) Though, the TL that eventually formed had a lot of stuff with the huns and a resurgent Western Rome... I think the WRE will still fall in this TL.

 

[Nicole]

Part I: The Gothic War, Part II
Theodosius, the hero of the Great Barbarian Conspiracy, was dispatched by Gratian to take control of the rebellious East. However, the Roman Empire was severely overstretched. The core of the Eastern Army was wiped out at Adrianople, and nearly all of what remained had fallen at Constantinople. Gratian was unwilling to move too many troops from the west, which was also facing pressures. Despite this, Theodosius was an able leader, and believed that he would be able to subdue the Goths.
In 383, Gratian would be assassinated, and Valentian II would take the throne.
Meanwhile, Athanaric was having some trouble holding the Gothic coalition built by Fritigern together. The Ostrogoths began to grumble about his rule, he was mistrusted by Christian Visigoths for his long support of paganism, and hated by Pagan Visigoths for his conversion. Theodosius sent an envoy to the Gothic King in Constantinople, attempting a diplomatic agreement, which would give the Visigoths lands in Thracia and on the Danube, and the right to serve in Roman legions. However, the Goths rejected this agreement, demanding that Constantinople remain under their control. This was clearly not acceptable to the Romans, and so war broke out.
Theodosius and his generals began to attack the Gothic areas of Illyria, forcing the Goths to flee those provinces to Greece. After half of a year of slow fighting, in 385 a Gothic army was attacked by the Roman army at the Battle of Dardania. This battle would not be another Adrianople, and the Goths were pushed out of Dacia. However, it was not a total route either- the Goths inflicted heavy casualties, while the bulk of the Gothic army survived.
Theodosius realized that he had to take a different strategy. In secret, envoys met with the Ostrogothic tribes in Anatolia, promising them a federate deal similar to the one offered to Athanaric, except on the Persian frontier. He was able to convince several tribes to break their allegiance to the united Gothic confederacy, and began to prepare a strike near Thessalonica.
However, in 388, these plans began to fall apart. The young Valentian II had appointed the Frankish cheiftain Arbogastes as magister militum on the advice of Theodosius, but Valentian had been assassinated that year by a radical Roman pagan, who felt that Christianity was to blame for the chaos in Greece.
Arbogastes took the moment to select Eugenius as the Roman Emperor. Arbogastes and the Senate planned to restore paganism, and while Eugenius was a nominal Christian, he was their puppet and carried out several controversial decrees. Theodosius did not accept the selection of Eugenius, and gained the support of his army to make a claim on the Imperial Purple itself, planning to deal with the Goths afterward. The Ostrogoths joined with his army were unsure how to proceed, some mutinied, but the majority stayed with Theodosius as he headed towards the Frigidus River to face off against Arbogastes Frankish-Roman Army.
The long, bloody battle in 389 spelled the end for Theodosius. At the death of the commander, the Ostrogothic contingent of the army fled, turning the battle into a rout. Eugenius remained Roman Emperor.
However, the Visigoths were not out of the water yet. In 388, Athanaric perished, and as the Romans fought each other, a struggle began to erupt over who was to become his successor as King of the Goths.

 

[stevep]

Imajin

Looking very interesting. Presuming from the title a Gothic empire will survive, at least for a century or so. How are they getting on with their eastern neighbours? That would probably be the key think as even without internal division they are very much between the proverbial rock and a hard place between Rome and Persia.

Have toyed with the idea of the Frigidus going the other way myself and a [FONT=&quot]revived [/FONT]'pagan' empire. In some ways it might have a better chance now, at least in the west, as another generation or so of persecution after Julian's time will make the non-Christians more determined to avoid coming under Christian rule again. Also with the Goths in the Balkans and Anatolia and the region in turmoil it could take some of the pressure off the west as various groups flow with the tide, south instead of west.

Anyway looking forward to seeing more.

Steve

 

[Nicole]

Imajin

Looking very interesting. Presuming from the title a Gothic empire will survive, at least for a century or so. How are they getting on with their eastern neighbours? That would probably be the key think as even without internal division they are very much between the proverbial rock and a hard place between Rome and Persia.

Hm... Well, I think I'm going to have the Persians make a go at the Levant and Egypt (regions which are quite in flux) soon, which would distract their attention from the Goths.

Have toyed with the idea of the Frigidus going the other way myself and a [FONT=&quot]revived [/FONT]'pagan' empire. In some ways it might have a better chance now, at least in the west, as another generation or so of persecution after Julian's time will make the non-Christians more determined to avoid coming under Christian rule again. Also with the Goths in the Balkans and Anatolia and the region in turmoil it could take some of the pressure off the west as various groups flow with the tide, south instead of west.

I basically saw the Battle of the Frigidus and Eugenius, and decided that was too good to pass up... glad you like it!

 

[stevep]

Hm... Well, I think I'm going to have the Persians make a go at the Levant and Egypt (regions which are quite in flux) soon, which would distract their attention from the Goths.

Could be very messy. Roman rule seems to have been unpopular in Egypt and I doubt if any of the Goths have the same religious alignment as the bulk of the Egyptian Christians. However the Sassanids seem to have been their own worse enemies at times, preferring to plunder rather than conquer and their supply lines are long. So you could see an independent Egypt emerging perhaps?

I basically saw the Battle of the Frigidus and Eugenius, and decided that was too good to pass up... glad you like it!

Arbogastes will have a problem with the Bishop of Milan, think his name was Ambrose or something like that. When he went off to the historical Frigidus he was threatening to stable his horses in the [FONT=&quot]Cathedral [/FONT]on his return. You have advanced the battle a few years but I expect the main characters are the same so there will be some conflict in the west as well. Not sure how high a proportion of the population were Christian, or possibly more to the point committed Christians but they will not like being deposed from power by non-believers.

Steve

 

[Nicole]

Could be very messy. Roman rule seems to have been unpopular in Egypt and I doubt if any of the Goths have the same religious alignment as the bulk of the Egyptian Christians. However the Sassanids seem to have been their own worse enemies at times, preferring to plunder rather than conquer and their supply lines are long. So you could see an independent Egypt emerging perhaps?

If I recall, the Arians are basically on the other side of the Christian spectrum from the Monophysite Copts... However, this is the era of Yazdegerd I, who was a tolerant Sassanid ruler (he also didn't war with Rome much, but this seems to have been part of an agreement with Theodosius- who is now dead.)
However, in 421 Bahram V takes over, and he most definately was not tolerant...

Arbogastes will have a problem with the Bishop of Milan, think his name was Ambrose or something like that. When he went off to the historical Frigidus he was threatening to stable his horses in the [FONT=&quot]Cathedral [/FONT]on his return. You have advanced the battle a few years but I expect the main characters are the same so there will be some conflict in the west as well. Not sure how high a proportion of the population were Christian, or possibly more to the point committed Christians but they will not like being deposed from power by non-believers.

Eugenius was a nominal Christian as well- I think it will end up more that Pagan ceremonials are brought back somewhat, so the Christianization is more halted but not reversed.
I'll have to look into the Bishop thing- that could be a problem (And it could cause the Roman Empire to have some convient civil problems to deal with while the Gothic succession gets sorted out)

 

[Nicole]

Part I-3: The Aftermath of the Gothic War

The Battle of the Frigidus is usually seen as the end of the Gothic War. The Pagan-Christian question enveloped the West, and successive Western Emperors saw it as more important to promote their respective religion than reconquer the Gothic state. Shortly after Frigidus, the master of soldiers Arbogastes made a decision that would result in the Milan Riots, which would last into the 410s. Upon his victory, the Frank decided to use the Cathedral of Milan as his stable, and defiled several holy relics kept therein. The Christians of the city decided that something had to be done, and attempted to throw off the pagan yoke. Christians in the Roman Army refused to fight, and despite many being killed for this, the army that would subdue Milan was nearly entirely barbarian. It was the end for the already dying system of citizen-soldiers, replaced with mercernaries.
In the East, the Levant was under a Saracen principality which had would convert to Christianity, while Egypt was under a Roman governor but had little military stationed there. The Persian Emperor, Yazdegerd I, had had agreements with Theodosius for a favorable policy, but as soon as he heard of Theodosius' death, he decided to make war. The Saracens in the Levant barely even put up a fight, returning to the desert from whence they came. Egypt put up a more dedicated resistance, but when Yazdegerd promised tolerance for the Christian population, and news of the situation in Milan came to Egypt showing that Rome may not be so tolerant, he was able to take the wealthy province.
Finally, we shall look to the Goths. The Ostrogoths who left with Theodosius, known as the Black Ostrogoths, attempted to re-enter Anatolia. The White Ostrogothic King Aric, who held sway in Anatolia with the death of Athalaric, refused them entry as he pressed his claim to rule over the Gothic alliance. His most powerful foe was Alaric, a Visigothic prince who had crushed his western competitors at the Battle of the Dardanelles. Alaric made a deal with the Black Ostrogoths, promising them more land in Anatolia and Dacia. His army entered Anatolia, and crushed the army of King Aric at the Battle of Miletus, occuring outside that ancient city. Alaric slew the entire family of Aric, and proclaimed the end of the Visigoth/Ostrogoth split, forming one united Goth nation in 401 AD.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the Empire...

Good start, Imajin. It'll be interesting to see how the Palmyran and Gaulish Empires deal with this.

 

[Nicole]

Hm, while the Crisis of the Third Century could have been used as a starting point (actually I find the Palmyrenes rather interesting and probably should have done that), I used the Battle of Adrianople- Palmyra and Gaul have been suppressed by now.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

This is why one should read the rest of the thread before replying. Sorry about that.

 

[Nicole]

Part II-1: The Coronation of the Frank

Alaric would establish the first lasting dynasty for the Goths after the invasion of Anatolia and Greece. Indeed, it was under Alaric that the Gothic Kingdom began to truly coalesce, rather than being simply "Roman provinces under the control of Goths". A large reason for this was the Franks in Rome. Arbogastes was clearly in control of the supposed Emperor Eugenius.
Arbogastes felt that the time had come for him to take complete power. His son, Flavius Childeric, was, he felt, a weak boy who would be a poor leader. He would not live to know how wrong he was, of course. Meanwhile, pressure was mounting from the Senatorial factions to depose the barbarian leader. To shore up his support, he all but abolished the remnants of the Western Roman army, calling upon the Franks and other Germanic tribes to fill the role. He gave the Franks large estates in the North of Italy and in the Provincia Romana, in exchange for a pledge for his support.
In 407, Eugenius met his end, killed by a Christian assassin. Arbogastes not only used this as an excuse to crack down on Christians, he took a further step. From the beginning of his career as master of Soldiers, he had hoped to achieve the position of Augustus, however, had compromised that goal to appease the Senate and the Roman factions. Now, however, his power base secured by his alliances, he took the step, and proclaimed himself Imperator Caesar Flavius Arbogastes Augustus. A barbarian sat on the throne of Rome, but it was a throne increasingly shaky.