Georg Elser kills Hitler....and Goebbels ....and Himmler ....and Heß ....and etc. etc

[freivolk]

Most the time, if somebody makes a scenario with a successfull assasination of Hitler through Elsers bomb, he just ad Hitler as victim No. 9 of the bomb. But I stumbled about this german articel http://www.mythoselser.de/elser-folgen1.htm. It shows that everybody forgets, that the Bürgerbrauhaus was completly full during during Hitlers speach, packed with 2000-3000 people, including MOST OF THE HIGHER NSDAP-LEADERSHIP. IOTL the bomb exploded after Hitlers speach, with only 100-200 people in the room, most outside the deathzone of the bomb. But if the bomb exploded during Hitlers speach it would have killed more then hundred people, including following persons:

Bormann, Martin Chef der Parteikanzlei
Epp, Franz Xaver Ritter von Reichsstatthalter in Bayern
Frick, Wilhelm Reichsinnenminister
Goebbels, Joseph Reichsminister für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda
Heß, Rudolf Stellvertreter des Führers
Himmler, Heinrich Reichsführer SS
Hitler, Adolf Staatschef, NSDAP-Vorsitzender
Ley, Robert Leiter der deutschen Arbeitsfront
Rosenberg, Alfred Reichsleiter der NSDAP, Reichsminister
Todt, Fitz Generalbevollmächtigter für die Bauwirtschaft
Dietrich, Sepp Befehlshaber der Leibstandarte Hitler
Frank, Hans Generalgouverneur des besetzten Polen
Ribbentrop, Joachim von Reichsaußenminister
Streicher, Julius Herausgeber "Der Stürmer"

So, WI all this people dies through Elsers bomb.

 

[Ferreti]

Göring takes over and becomes a puppet of the OKW

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Göring takes over and becomes a puppet of the OKW

Or gets a bullet, because they were not a big fan of his.

 

[edvader]

Go to completed sceenario for THIS:Explosion heard around the world OR Elser succeeds.Poster has not completely finished but check out what has been done.Goering takes over and certain Nazis are eliminated.This causes butterflies to the US and China and Japan.

 

[Norbert1980]

Most the time, if somebody makes a scenario with a successfull assasination of Hitler through Elsers bomb, he just ad Hitler as victim No. 9 of the bomb. But I stumbled about this german articel http://www.mythoselser.de/elser-folgen1.htm. It shows that everybody forgets, that the Bürgerbrauhaus was completly full during during Hitlers speach, packed with 2000-3000 people, including MOST OF THE HIGHER NSDAP-LEADERSHIP. IOTL the bomb exploded after Hitlers speach, with only 100-200 people in the room, most outside the deathzone of the bomb. But if the bomb exploded during Hitlers speach it would have killed more then hundred people, including following persons:

Bormann, Martin Chef der Parteikanzlei
Epp, Franz Xaver Ritter von Reichsstatthalter in Bayern
Frick, Wilhelm Reichsinnenminister
Goebbels, Joseph Reichsminister für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda
Heß, Rudolf Stellvertreter des Führers
Himmler, Heinrich Reichsführer SS
Hitler, Adolf Staatschef, NSDAP-Vorsitzender
Ley, Robert Leiter der deutschen Arbeitsfront
Rosenberg, Alfred Reichsleiter der NSDAP, Reichsminister
Todt, Fitz Generalbevollmächtigter für die Bauwirtschaft
Dietrich, Sepp Befehlshaber der Leibstandarte Hitler
Frank, Hans Generalgouverneur des besetzten Polen
Ribbentrop, Joachim von Reichsaußenminister
Streicher, Julius Herausgeber "Der Stürmer"

So, WI all this people dies through Elsers bomb.

Thanks for the link! It was very interesting. It is a pitty that Himmler survived - the evils seems to have too many guardian angels

IF many Nazi leaders had died, than maybe the Wehrmacht leaders would have tried to launch a coup instead of letting Göring take over the power.

Either way i doubt that the Holocaust would have occured without H&H (Hitler and Himmler). Even a peace treaty with the western powers after the victory in Poland might have been possible.

The OKW wasnt eager to fight the French and the Brits, they had all the pictures of WWI in their mind - with Stalin getting stronger year by year.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Thanks for the link! It was very interesting. It is a pitty that Himmler survived - the evils seems to have too many guardian angels

IF many Nazi leaders had died, than maybe the Wehrmacht leaders would have tried to launch a coup instead of letting Göring take over the power.

Either way i doubt that the Holocaust would have occured without H&H (Hitler and Himmler). Even a peace treaty with the western powers after the victory in Poland might have been possible.

The OKW wasnt eager to fight the French and the Brits, they had all the pictures of WWI in their mind - with Stalin getting stronger year by year.

I think its nearly certain that there would be a coup and a military dictatorship with a negotiated peace with the West; they might even take FDRs offer of a interest free loan to offset Germany's cost for invading Poland and standing down.

 

[Michel Van]

Thanks for the link! It was very interesting. It is a pitty that Himmler survived - the evils seems to have too many guardian angels

IF many Nazi leaders had died, than maybe the Wehrmacht leaders would have tried to launch a coup instead of letting Göring take over the power.

Either way i doubt that the Holocaust would have occured without H&H (Hitler and Himmler). Even a peace treaty with the western powers after the victory in Poland might have been possible.

The OKW wasnt eager to fight the French and the Brits, they had all the pictures of WWI in their mind - with Stalin getting stronger year by year.

Guardian angel for Nazis ? that's female demon send by the devil !

with liquidation of Top of NSDAP in bombing and Herman Göring as sole surviving Top member of the NSDAP

the Third Reich has now many problems: a fat incompetent drug addict as Fuhrer,
a battle for new posts in lower rang NSDAP Members.
and a cool blooded Monster take over the SS: Reinhard Heydrich
but is very certainly that der Furhrer Göring order the execution of dangerous Heydrich, because his SS failed in protection of NSDAP leadership.

for the Holocaust it will happen also under Göring, there suffice papers were He support the extermination of Jews, what let to his death penalty in Nuremberg trails.
but it will not be the Industrial scale Holocaust that Heydrich & Himmler realized.
It will be what the Wehrmacht and Special SS brigade make during WW2, drive the victims together, let them dig there graves and execute them.
it will much fewer death umbers as OTL because, the question is how soon will the Third reich collapse under Göring incompetents ?

 

[Plumber]

Heydrich was there too.

I'm very interested in this scenario, but don't have much knowledge to offer besides that information.

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

Well, assuming the Wehrmacht doesn't take over, Goering's Germany would probably be a massive failure.

 

[Michel Van]

Heydrich was there too.

I'm very interested in this scenario, but don't have much knowledge to offer besides that information.

Johann Georg Elser bomb attempt is very famous in Germany
he had just "bad timing", he install a Bomb in pillar next to lectern were Hitler gave his speech
but Hitler initially cancelled his original speech, change his mind and gave a short declaration
Hitler left the Hall 13 minute BEFOR detonation

had be timing be right, that would be death figure:
440 light injured (22 % von 2000)
180 average injured (9 % von 2000)
220 seriously injured (11 % von 2000)
120 deaths (6 % von 2000)

those 120 deaths are near bomb pillar mean s Hitler and Top of NDSAP (and YES Heydrich would be death too )

the site were the 120 had sit.

 

[Plumber]

Johann Georg Elser bomb attempt is very famous in Germany
he had just "bad timing", he install a Bomb in pillar next to lectern were Hitler gave his speech
but Hitler initially cancelled his original speech, change his mind and gave a short declaration
Hitler left the Hall 13 minute BEFOR detonation

had be timing be right, that would be death figure:
440 light injured (22 % von 2000)
180 average injured (9 % von 2000)
220 seriously injured (11 % von 2000)
120 deaths (6 % von 2000)

those 120 deaths are near bomb pillar mean s Hitler and Top of NDSAP (and YES Heydrich would be death too )

the site were the 120 had sit.

Oh, I know the event, it's famous enough over here. But I don't know enough to speculate credibly on what would happen afterwards.

 

[zert]

Well if it had killed off that much of the leadership, no matter if Goering or some Heer General takes over, it could have long term results. Even if there was a delay in WW2, we might see all kinds of butterflies effecting which nations fight and the losses with more modern weapons at the start.

 

[freivolk]

I think its nearly certain that there would be a coup and a military dictatorship with a negotiated peace with the West; they might even take FDRs offer of a interest free loan to offset Germany's cost for invading Poland and standing down.

That sounds intersting. Where can I get a bit more background of FDR´s offer?

Heydrich was there too.

.

Do you have a scource for this?

Göring takes over and becomes a puppet of the OKW

The german Generals were a spineless bunch. I think even a fat, lazy, drug-addict like Göring can keep them in check.