Falklands War WI

[Julius Vogel]

Now, as we all know, there was a military campaign in the South Atlantic sometime in the early 1980s. This is a reasonably well known and appreciated fact in this forum. What is less well known is New Zealand's part in the conflict, or, more correctly, lack of a role in this conflict.

Basically, the NZ Prime Minister of the time, Robert Muldoon, offered use of a frigate to Britain and in the end, the frigate was sent to the Indian Ocean (Armilla Patrol?) to take over the role of a British frigate, which was then redeployed for the campaign. So, nothing too important, but a nice gesture I guess. In NZ, the government expelled the Argentinian Ambassador, which was an easy win as we didn't have one in Buenos Aires. Given the fall of the dictatorship soon after and then Muldoon's electoral defeat, I assume both countries soon got over any hard feelings.

http://www.listener.co.nz/from-our-archive/when-robert-muldoon-met-margaret-thatcher/

Anyway, so, what if things escalated somehow?

Muldoon was a rather controversial figure in recent NZ political history, widely accepted to be one of the more powerful, polarising and indeed random PMs for all sorts of reasons, this one being very much a non issue. He is widely thought to have called the 1984 snap election he then lost whilst being drunk, although as always there is more to the story.

In terms of escalation, I was thinking that either Muldoon does something very silly and actually declares war on Argentina, whilst drunk, or, insists that the frigate in question, HMNZ Canterbury, a Leander class frigate serves in the Falklands. Neither actually require any harm to actually come to the frigate or indeed to Argentinians, but would noticeably up the ante.

Alternative PODs would be for Muldoon to attempt to declare war but be somehow over-ruled or rolled by his party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMNZS_Canterbury_(F421)

 

[RosoMC]

That is... so random and weird that it could only happen in OTL, because the alternative history has to be, you know, plausible.

Although I've had some interest in the Faklands War and even own a couple of books on the topic, I admit I had no idea that NZ even offered to take part in it - even if only to relieve one of the British frigates from their designated patrol area.

It's a shot in the dark for me, but I assume that it mostly create a state of 'Phoney War' between the New Zealand and Argentina - Argentina being otherwise occupied to do anything with NZ and NZ not having any actual military capacity to directly intervene in the conflict.
When the hostilities cease between the UK and Argentina, they would probably quietly sign a peace deal, and hope that everyone forgets this embarrassing diplomatic hickup (drunk PM, seriously? )

With all due respects to all you Kiwis out there, but New Zealand isn't known for its power projection potential. And I doubt that even in the 80's you were that much better off. I just don't see how NZ could affect the conflict in any meaningful way - other than cause the awkward silence at the negotiations table.

 

[WILDGEESE]

STANGE!!! . . . . . . but TRUE!!!!!!!!

Hugh Bicheno explains this in his book, "The Razors Edge" a detailed account of what really happened "down south".

Nigel "Sharkey" Ward also tells of this in his book "Sea Harrier at War" He writes angrily of Canada's slow response of offers of help, despite the fact that he himself was born there.

I also think David Brown's book "The Royal Navy & The Falklands War" mentions this offer.

Although very grateful of N.Z's offer of one of her Frigates, the UK govt politely turned down the offer of assistance, as Operation Corporate needed to look to joe public back home as a totally British adventure.

With the offer of the Frigate, i think it was more of a show of solidarity with the "Home" country, despite the fact that I think N.Z PM was indeed serious with the offer.

Not only that but I get the impression that the offer was a bit of one-upmanship by the Kiwis's against the Aussie's & Canadian's, at the slow response to their govt's standing with us at the start of the crisis which then lead to war.

Now let's just say for a moment the offer was accepted, how well would this have gone down in Australia & Canada?

You could bet that both countries would've rushed in to help, to stop themselves being embarrassed by the Kiwi's

Fair play to the Kiwi's

Regards filer

 

[merlin]

On the other hand, it might have been made out of self interest.

If Argentina had 'won' and kept the Falklands, where else would the Islanders likely to want to re-settle? yes, you've guessed it - New Zealand.

 

[Julius Vogel]

The theory being that Muldoon was actually quite smart, he wanted to boost NZ's profile in the UK ahead of trade negotiations. Whether it helped is less clear but it did help generate a lot of positive feedback, which was needed.

In NZ terms the escalation could result in an early election or a party coup against Muksoon, coup in the parliamentary sense.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

I recall this being on the TV news at the time. However, they said that the RNZN frigate relieved the Hong Kong guard ship.

I read on another website that the RNZN frigates weren't allowed to take part in the Armilla patrol unless they weren't fitted with a computerised AIO system. None of the RNZN's frigates were so fitted at the time of the Falklands, which might have been an additional reason why they took no direct part in the war.

 

[Mumbles]

Nigel "Sharkey" Ward also tells of this in his book "Sea Harrier at War" He writes angrily of Canada's slow response of offers of help, despite the fact that he himself was born there.

There's not much in that book that Ward doesn't write angrily about lol.

In a vaguely related note, (and mentioned in passing in the above book) besides freeing up an RN warship for Operation Corporate, NZ indirectly contributed in another way. One of the SHAR pilots during the conflict (Al Curtis) had flown the A-4K Skyhawk with the RNZAF prior and thus had experience of the capabilities of that type, especially on anti shipping operations which were a big part of the RNZAF skill set. He also would have likely had experience of flying against the Mirage III operated by the RAAF at the time. His knowledge is mentioned by Ward as contributing to understanding what the SHAR force was likely to encounter.

 

[Julius Vogel]

Then there is this, from the book linked in OP

New Zealand may have had an indirect role in that sinking, because the British submarine fleet had been plagued by communications difficulties after arriving in the South Atlantic and for some of its orders relied on the New Zealand navy’s communications facility, HMNZS Irirangi, using transmitters and aerials to relay communications from the Royal Navy to its fleet. A submariner aboard HMS Conqueror, which fired the torpedoes that hit the Belgrano, wrote in a diary published later that the submarine had received “traffic via New Zealand” before receiving the order to sink the warship, although whether that particular order was relayed via the Irirangi is not clear

 

[MattII]

Maybe it interests the British enough to prevent them accepting Kiwifruit from Argentina for a bit longer?

 

[Saphroneth]

There's not much in that book that Ward doesn't write angrily about lol.

I've heard the book described as "Ward's story of how he won the Falklands war despite obstruction from everyone else"

 

[Simon]

I've heard the book described as "Ward's story of how he won the Falklands war despite obstruction from everyone else".

Apparently he's always had something of a major ego, the Falklands Conflict and getting to write his 'How I Saved the Day' book, which apparently played down the parts played by RAF pilots on exchange and even the other Fleet Air Arm squadron, didn't help matters, and since resigning he's become ever more bitter and made ever more deranged rants against the RAF and how the Senior Service über alles.

 

[Mumbles]

I've heard the book described as "Ward's story of how he won the Falklands war despite obstruction from everyone else"

Yup, I've used that description myself on occasion. It's a very balanced account, if one considers a chip on both shoulders to be balanced.

I had a copy, read it twice to be sure, then got rid of it, which I don't do very often. Beyond the rants and bias and not squaring with other accounts I found the writing style not particularly to my taste either.