Could Have Been Cities: Canada Edition

Beedok

Beedok

I figure it would be interesting to discuss towns that had the potential for greatness, villages that just sort of spluttered, or cities that kind of went astray. Cities are after all the beating hearts of national economies and industry, so if a different set of cities could have dominated a nation that would make slight border changes potentially very major.

(If this is somewhat successful I'll open up ones for other countries/areas.)
 
DanMcCollum

DanMcCollum

Superior, Wisconsin was envisioned as the great Chicago of the north and its population actually took off quite quickly. However, the fact that they weren't able to become a railroad hub and the discovery of the harbor of Duluth (which was a much deeper and better harbor) a few miles away caused the city to implode within a matter of years. By the early 1900s, large parts of the town were uninhabited. It did rebound after a sort, but only by becoming a suburb of Duluth.

So, really, you have two interesting questions here: How can you make it so Superior becomes the larger of the two cities and, second, why was it that no great metropolis ever rose up on the shores of Lake Superior.
 

EternalCynic

Qu'Appelle was initially intended to be the capital of the Northwest Territories. But the Lieutenant Governor went with a piece of land which he coincidentally owned and named it Regina. It has less than 700 people.

Prince Rupert could have become a major port had its founder not boarded the Titanic on its maiden voyage.

Townsend, north of Nanticoke, was planned in the 1970s to become a major industrial town with a population of 100,000 by 2000. It's now an insignificant village with a suspiciously wide boulevard, without even a convenience store or gas station.
 
DanMcCollum

DanMcCollum

DanMcCollum said:
Superior, Wisconsin was envisioned as the great Chicago of the north and its population actually took off quite quickly. However, the fact that they weren't able to become a railroad hub and the discovery of the harbor of Duluth (which was a much deeper and better harbor) a few miles away caused the city to implode within a matter of years. By the early 1900s, large parts of the town were uninhabited. It did rebound after a sort, but only by becoming a suburb of Duluth.

So, really, you have two interesting questions here: How can you make it so Superior becomes the larger of the two cities and, second, why was it that no great metropolis ever rose up on the shores of Lake Superior.
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Wait, just saw this was Canada edition. DOH!

Okay; so, lets look turn Thunder Bay into the great metropolis on Superior instead then!
 
Fearless Leader

Fearless Leader

Donor
One interesting POD could be the choice of a different route for the western end of the CPR.

In OTL the CPR eventually opted to take Rogers Pass over the Rockies rather than the more northerly Yellowhead Pass. There was some thought of using the Crowsnest pass to the south but that was seen as being too close to the US border for comfort. The CPR would, in the late 19th/ early 20th century opt to build a line through the Crowsnest pass to take advantage of the rich mineral wealth in South Eastern BC and eventually establish a parallel railway line through southern BC.

One POD could be a more successful survey of the route through Southern BC. This likely means that Lethbridge grows at the expense of Calgary, and that towns like Cranbrook, Fernie, Castlegar, and Osoyoos grow at the expense of Kamloops, Revelstoke, and Kelowna. It also probably leads to a faster development of British Columbia as well.

An earlier POD could also be found in the decision to construct the city of New Westminster. The considerable cost of the venture hamstrung the Colony of British Columbia for it's entire existence and nearly aborted the project. Had it not been undertaken, the forgotten town of Derby outside of Fort Langley would likely have grown instead, perhaps becoming the Colonial capital.
 

MorningDew

How exactly could have prince Rupert gotten a better deal? It has a large harbor THAT'S ICE FREE YEAR ROUND, a rail connection to the rest of Canada, and is far away enough from the U.S. so that security doesn't have to be bothered with all that much.
 

AltHistoryNerd

DanMcCollum said:
Superior, Wisconsin was envisioned as the great Chicago of the north and its population actually took off quite quickly. However, the fact that they weren't able to become a railroad hub and the discovery of the harbor of Duluth (which was a much deeper and better harbor) a few miles away caused the city to implode within a matter of years. By the early 1900s, large parts of the town were uninhabited. It did rebound after a sort, but only by becoming a suburb of Duluth.

So, really, you have two interesting questions here: How can you make it so Superior becomes the larger of the two cities and, second, why was it that no great metropolis ever rose up on the shores of Lake Superior.
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Turn it into a railroad hub.

Do a territory trade with the state of Wisconsin. The MN southern border shifts from 43N to the Blue Earth and MN rivers and Wisconsin taking that territory. In turn, Wisconsin gives Minnesota all the territory east of the Chippewa river. Wisconsin gets farmland and Minnesota gets a giant port.

Saint Paul becomes the region's trading hub due to a wider area of trade within the state. Superior then annexes Duluth and they become a giant port city. Minneapolis becomes a milling giant, but pales in Saint Paul's influence.

A flood hits the Rochester, WI area and introduces disease to the community. The Mayo brothers then start up their clinic, which becomes the biggest hospital in the western hemisphere.
 
Beedok

Beedok

How about Dauphin Manitoba? Seems like it's far enough from other cities, while sitting in fertile enough farmland, to be a significant centre.
 

telynk

Shelburne, nova Scotia was briefly the largest city in Canada when loyalists were evacuated there during the American revolution. If you could have more of these loyalists stay, maybe it could somehow develop into a port as large as Halifax.

The disadvantages of Shelburne is that the harbour is not nearly as good as Halifax, and it is located farther from any potential railroad connections to new Brunswick any beyond. The advantage is that it is a significant distance closer to new england (by sea), and it's located closer (by sea) to the bay of fundy and Annapolis valley, where nova scotia's best fertile land is located.
 

hzn5pk

How about Vancouver being a suburb of the New Westminster metropolis instead of the other way around. Probably a pipe dream since Vancouver became the port and New Westminster declined after the Frasier Gold rush and when the trans-Canadian railroad completed to Vancouver. But hey, here is a tip of the hat to New Westminster.

Also, Winnipeg retains the Fort Garry name

Lastly, Point Roberts secedes from Washington and joins British Columbia.
 

wilcoxchar

If Canada included some of the area south of Lake Ontario, I could see Kingston, ON becoming a major city where the lake empties into the Saint Lawrence. Maybe also if it remained the capital of Canada into the present day.

I really like this idea. The history of cities and development of urban areas is a fascinating topic, and one aspect of history that isn't touched on nearly enough on this forum IMO.
 

windstorm

An interesting case might be Fort Frances in northwestern Ontario. It is on the US border and the westernmost part of Ontario before Manitoba. The current population is only about 8000, but I think it has potential to be larger.

The big limitation is how isolated Fort Frances is, there isn't much for transportation. However the Rainy River area around Fort Frances is unique for northwestern Ontario because it is has very fertile soil and is quite good for farming. Most of that region is Canadian Shield with very rocky soil and numerous lakes and swamps. I could see a larger community developing if good farmland was scarcer for some reason or people were offered cheaper lands like during the settlement of the western provinces.
 
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The Gunslinger

If London had been chosen for the capital of Upper Canada as opposed to York it would be much bigger than OTL.

If Kingston opens the first Upper Canadian bank it might be able to better keep up with York/Toronto in the long term.

Battleford/ Fort Qu'apelle is chosen as the capital of Saskatchewan (both 100x better than Regina).

If the British build a 19th century St. Lawrence Seaway there will a huge boom in Montreal, Kingston and a lot of other cities along the Great Lakes.

If Ottawa never gets chosen as the federal capital and it remains in Kingston/Montreal would be another one.
 
Beedok

Beedok

The Gunslinger said:
If the British build a 19th century St. Lawrence Seaway there will a huge boom in Montreal, Kingston and a lot of other cities along the Great Lakes.
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How doable would that be?

The Gunslinger said:
Thunder Bay is sadly trapped in the middle of of the Canadian Shield, it's going to have a tough time for being a major hub with any POD.
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It's kind of a gateway to the West though. Any Canada with more people in the West will have a bigger Thunder Bay. Plenty of people were headed that way, but after all the travelling decided to just stop in Thunder Bay. The Grain Elevators are also fairly important to getting Prairie grain to Europe.
 

The Gunslinger

Beedok said:
How doable would that be?
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Easy. The Trent-Severn Waterway was far more difficult, ditto the Rideau. The big sticking point is the Americans. The British didn't trust the Americans not to blow in case of a war, and America didn't trust Britain not to swiftly move warships to the Great Lakes. If somebody owns both banks there's no reason it can't get built a century or earlier.
 
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