Could Germany have done more for China in the 1920s and 1930’s

Gudestein

With state support (of profitable trade), could Germany have supported China enough to increase political ties and its initial resistance against Japan?
Would Germany as a Chinese supporter againtJapan influence perceptions of Germany in the US in the 1930’s?
Wiki has a nice page on OTL interactions:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926–1941)
 

thaddeus

Donor
the original plan by Gen. von Seeckt was to cooperate with both the USSR and China to of course reap the economic benefits but also avoid any wartime blockades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Seeckt (albeit not necessarily to ally with either)

any attempt to form some alliance with China confronts the realities of the time period and would become a drain on Germany not a lucrative trading arrangement. some of the items the KMT asked the US for were beyond even American resources https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-CBI-Mission/USA-CBI-Mission-1.html

the best policy seems to be simply avoid dealings with Japan, and reap whatever benefits possible from the USSR, China, and later French Indochina for the longest possible duration. (avoiding relations with Japan certainly improves the image of Germany in the US)
 

Ambusher11

As thaddeus stated, Germany was trying to cooperate with the USSR and China during the Weimar era both to reap the economic benefits and to avoid major effects from future wartime blockades (presumably after Poland has been partitioned by Germany and the Soviet Union).

I'll just add that after Hitler rises to power, one of his goals is to destroy the USSR, and that is going to make having good relations with China less important than having good relations with Japan (As a sidenote, it should also be noted that Japan, especially before 1933, considered having good relations with France to be more important than supporting Germany), since Japan has a more capable military than China.
 

Gudestein

thaddeus said:
the original plan by Gen. von Seeckt was to cooperate with both the USSR and China to of course reap the economic benefits but also avoid any wartime blockades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Seeckt (albeit not necessarily to ally with either)

any attempt to form some alliance with China confronts the realities of the time period and would become a drain on Germany not a lucrative trading arrangement. some of the items the KMT asked the US for were beyond even American resources https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-CBI-Mission/USA-CBI-Mission-1.html

the best policy seems to be simply avoid dealings with Japan, and reap whatever benefits possible from the USSR, China, and later French Indochina for the longest possible duration. (avoiding relations with Japan certainly improves the image of Germany in the US)
Click to expand...
I probably used too strong a word in Alliance. But someone with whom Germany makes a state encouraged effort to support as long as they pay. In OTL it seems German involvement were through people of tarnished reputation. Here I am supposing Krupp affiliates etc. in China.
 

Gudestein

Ambusher11 said:
As thaddeus stated, Germany was trying to cooperate with the USSR and China during the Weimar era both to reap the economic benefits and to avoid major effects from future wartime blockades (presumably after Poland has been partitioned by Germany and the Soviet Union).

I'll just add that after Hitler rises to power, one of his goals is to destroy the USSR, and that is going to make having good relations with China less important than having good relations with Japan (As a sidenote, it should also be noted that Japan, especially before 1933, considered having good relations with France to be more important than supporting Germany), since Japan has a more capable military than China.
Click to expand...
The PODS in an ATL and the motives of the protagonists are always tricky. Why go beyond OTL in the 1920’s when there was already a perfectly fine motive and why keep it up in the 1930’s if the Nazis are as OTL in the ATL?
For the 1920’s it could be a more confrontational attitude with France, maybe an earlier start of the rearmament that IOTL happened pre Nazi takeover.
For the 1930’s it’s a bit more tricky without a Nazi brain infusion. Best bet is the more money to make in China in the ATL, leads to a more careful assessment of the choices. This leads to the assessment that Japan won’t help against the Soviets + supporting Japan will align the British and the US against Germany. Add in that Japan will or will not distract the British without German help when there is a British distraction in Europe.
 

thaddeus

Donor
Gudestein said:
The PODS in an ATL and the motives of the protagonists are always tricky. Why go beyond OTL in the 1920’s when there was already a perfectly fine motive and why keep it up in the 1930’s if the Nazis are as OTL in the ATL?
For the 1920’s it could be a more confrontational attitude with France, maybe an earlier start of the rearmament that IOTL happened pre Nazi takeover.
For the 1930’s it’s a bit more tricky without a Nazi brain infusion. Best bet is the more money to make in China in the ATL, leads to a more careful assessment of the choices. This leads to the assessment that Japan won’t help against the Soviets + supporting Japan will align the British and the US against Germany. Add in that Japan will or will not distract the British without German help when there is a British distraction in Europe.
Click to expand...
my own speculation arrives in 1940 when Japan is moving on French Indochina, after they (Japan) have remained aloof and neutral for over a year of the war, the Vichy regime might seem a better (or correctly stated useful) partner?

a Dutch State in parallel to the Vichy regime makes for interesting speculation, if Hitler had not "waved away" any titular control over the European colonies by virtue of occupying the home countries.

but the above is arrived at by virtue of the German victories in 1939 - 40, and could not be anticipated in the 1930's? so you are back to dealing with the Devil you know, the USSR?

possibly Germany could have made inroads in Sinkiang (Xinjiang) in collaboration with the Soviets? (and Turkey?)
 

thaddeus

Donor
to the OP. Gen. Chiang Kai-Shek wanted air power to bomb the Japanese fleet in harbor (conceived even prior to the British raid on Taranto) https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-CBI-Mission/USA-CBI-Mission-1.html

if you had a successful Nationalist coup in Spain, a much abbreviated civil war, or Germany simply does not become involved, there could be a Condor Legion in China instead? the KMT had some success using the little German biplanes to attack Japanese shipping (albeit not sinking the Japanese war fleet in harbor)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top