Brazil receives a Littorio battleship as reparation

[minhow]

Considering that OTL Brazil was the only latin american country to directly fight in europe during WW2, and Italy being the main theater, how possible could be of this country to receive a battleship as reparation?

USA and UK received the remaining Littorios and USSR despite a low presence in Italy still received the Giuiliu Cesare. But what Brazil could do to have to receive a modern battleship? More troops on ground, be the responsible for the occupation?

If necessary, make the Roma survive, the missile miss or be a dud and the Impero be completed and dont sink.

Bonus - they keep the ship to current days, both as museum or as a modernizee flagship.

What do you people think?

 

[I want to learn]

I dunno, after World War 2 ended the United States Navy and the Royal Navy had numerous surplus warships, including battleships of similar vintage to the Littorio class. Despite the abundance and availability of surplus battleships and despite purchasing other large warships like cruisers and an aircraft carrier from both the Royal Navy and the USN, Brazil did not purchase battleships. This suggests to me that they were not interested in battleships after WW2 - not many countries were.

 

[minhow]

I dunno, after World War 2 ended the United States Navy and the Royal Navy had numerous surplus warships, including battleships of similar vintage to the Littorio class. Despite the abundance and availability of surplus battleships and despite purchasing other large warships like cruisers and an aircraft carrier from both the Royal Navy and the USN, Brazil did not purchase battleships. This suggests to me that they were not interested in battleships after WW2 - not many countries were.

Isn't much about Brazil purchasing surplus warships, its more about receiving war spoils from a defeated Italy. The US and UK received italian battleships, despite having a massive navy, and scrapped them. If Brazil had a chance to receive spoils, it would probably accept due prestige and because it's a spoil.

But what Brazil had to do to be elegible for such spoils?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Brazil would be better off with the Aquila completed at Italy's expense, rather than a battleship.

 

[jlckansas]

A better idea would be to get some amphibious craft like LSTs, LCM, LCVP and such to use in the Amazon. Not for the military necessarily but to work as a public transportation of cargo, people and supplies in the interior of the country. Getting the Aquila might work if they cannot get any of the CVL's or other carriers postwar with some DD's and a CL or two to go along with it.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Brazil would be better off with the Aquila, completed at Italy's expense, rather than a battleship.

I was thinking about that ship, too. Once it is raised and restored, it would be more valuable than a battleship.

Or perhaps it would be better to wait the British selling their surplus Colossus carriers.

 

[Alcatur]

But what Brazil had to do to be elegible for such spoils?

Probably play a larger role in the war, enter earlier be more active, send more troops. If you had Brasilian troops holding the line (with british weapons) in, say 1941 in Africa, they would have a better shot as post war spoils.

That being said Littorio is in general a very bad choice for Brasil. It was designed for mediterranean and is short ranged for battleship. So short ranged that it cannot sail from Rio de Janeiro to London without refueling and New York is at its limits. It cannot make a patrol from Rio to the northern Brasilian border and back without refuelling. No idea about its sea worthiness but I doubt it wasn't sacrificed as well.

 

[Domrémy-Scorniçesti Axis]

Considering that OTL Brazil was the only latin american country to directly fight in europe during WW2, and Italy being the main theater, how possible could be of this country to receive a battleship as reparation?

USA and UK received the remaining Littorios and USSR despite a low presence in Italy still received the Giuiliu Cesare. But what Brazil could do to have to receive a modern battleship? More troops on ground, be the responsible for the occupation?

If necessary, make the Roma survive, the missile miss or be a dud and the Impero be completed and dont sink.

Bonus - they keep the ship to current days, both as museum or as a modernizee flagship.

What do you people think?

It's unlikely Brazil would want one, since WWII marked the beginning of the end of the battleship as the main capital ship

 

[Alcatur]

It's unlikely Brazil would want one, since WWII marked the beginning of the end of the battleship as the main capital ship

Ehh, while in general of course true, interest in ships isn't strictly influenced by how useful they are. RN was designing battleships for a while until they decided it was pointless. Soviet Union was interested in battleships, first specifically Littorios, then even in 1951 they ordered the Stalingrad class battlecruisers. Brasil being interested in a modern battleship is not exactly out of the question.

 

[Domrémy-Scorniçesti Axis]

Ehh, while in general of course true, interest in ships isn't strictly influenced by how useful they are. RN was designing battleships for a while until they decided it was pointless. Soviet Union was interested in battleships, first specifically Littorios, then even in 1951 they ordered the Stalingrad class battlecruisers. Brasil being interested in a modern battleship is not exactly out of the question.

That's why I said unlikely. I can see Brazil operating the battleship until the mid-1960s.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

But what Brazil had to do to be elegible for such spoils?

Ask for them?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

I was thinking about that ship, too. Once it is raised and restored, it would be more valuable than a battleship.

Or perhaps it would be better to wait the British selling their surplus Colossus carriers.

The UK won't be GIVING anyone a Colossus post WWII. If Brazil wants one it will have to pay full price for it. War booty is free.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

The UK won't be GIVING anyone a Colossus post WWII. If Brazil wants one it will have to pay full price for it. War booty is free.

I wasn't thinking in having it for free, but paying for it. If they cannot afford it, well, that's entirely another question. They should wait for the 1960s to get the Minas Gerais.

 

[NHBL]

If Roma survived, the US and Britain might even push for Brazil to accept it so the Soviets don't get it.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

If Roma survived then the French might have first dibs on it. Now that would be interesting and lead to a lot of thought about how to/whether to complete Jean Bart or accept a 'bird in the hand' hardly used Roma

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

The only way Brazil gets more reparations than they did(a sail training ship of the Gorch Fock class, the former Albert Leo Schlageter, which became NV Guanabara and is now the NRP Sagres) is if the allies see more worth in the Brazilian contribution to the war effort than they did in @(in order to have Brazil jump places in the war booty claim line over the European occupied countries and the Commonwealth nations), which, unless many more things change during the War, they won't. Alcatur's thoughts are similar to mine on this matter.

You also have to account for the fact that about the only one keen on Brazilian participation was Roosevelt(and not many below him agreed with that); neither the British nor the Soviets were for it, and the fact that the USA was now trying to balance Brazilian, Argentinian and Chilean military power from late 1943 on. Very unlikely to say the least.

 

[Lascaris]

Isn't much about Brazil purchasing surplus warships, its more about receiving war spoils from a defeated Italy. The US and UK received italian battleships, despite having a massive navy, and scrapped them. If Brazil had a chance to receive spoils, it would probably accept due prestige and because it's a spoil.

But what Brazil had to do to be elegible for such spoils?

France and Greece did quite a bit more in the war, and the biggest thing they got was a light cruiser...

 

[Sargon]

You'd probably need Brazilian forces to be instrumental in a very visible and undeniable way in a critical battle or two such that it is splashed across the headlines in Allied newspapers and newsreels. Even then, that may not be enough.

It's a fair point they'd be better off with Aquila in comparison.


Sargon

 

[Eric C Johnson]

In the first few months after the end of the Pacific War, the Brazilian Navy made a number of requests to purchase an aircraft carrier from both the United States and Great Britain. The US State Department blocked the request, fearing the ignition of an arms race in Latin America. Without this adamant opposition, and the attendant financial pressure the US State Department could bring to bear, the British would gladly sell a brand-new Colossus/Majestic, and extract her full cost – US$ 12,240,000 in coveted dollars. (Historical Note: The US did not drop its objections to the sale of a light fleet carrier – HMS Vengeance – until December 1956; when the Brazilian refusal to allow construction of future a satellite tracking station on Brazilian soil secured the change in US policy.)

Point being, the Brazilians were looking for a carrier, and the US blocked it.

 

[YYJ]

... and the fact that the USA was now trying to balance Brazilian, Argentinian and Chilean military power from late 1943 on. Very unlikely to say the least.

Brazil could get Littorio, Argentina could get Vittorio Veneto, and Chile could get Nagato.