AH Challenge: Oldsmobile survives

Something a bit different, perhaps?

How could what was once the oldest American automobile marque survive to the present day? Ideally as a successful, profitable brand... it wasn't that long ago that it was killed, so there seems like there should be some potential.

I don't care when the POD is, though- if you even want to go back to 1908 and have a surviving Olds Motor Works independent of GM, or if you think you can save it in 2000, be my guest either way...
 
I don't think it would be too hard. Things like focusing more on differentiating the brands in the 80's and not starting up Saturn or buying Hummer and Saab would be needed to make it work. GM didn't need new brands to sell their cars, give each marque it's own clearly defined niche and as long as those cars are of good quality and adhears to that market you're golden.

I feel that if Olds had been built and marketed in the same class as Audi or Acura then they've got a good shot at surviving. But however the car is marketed it has to fill a niche, there cannot be overlap, end of story. Overlap is what almost killed the marque in the 70's and 80's. Oldmobiles in this era were rebadged models that every other brand sold and usually at only a few hundred dollers difference.

Sell Chevys as cheap, reliable, everyday transportation. Make Pontiac the poor man's performance brand. Olds, as I said earlier, takes on Acura and Audi. Have Buick do what it is currently doing with it's most recent model line, take on the comfort and quiet side of luxury. Cadillac can do what it does at the top of the heap, take on Mercades, BMW, and the like.
 
I agree with shinblam. One of, if not the, major problems GM has is that it doesn't sufficiently differentiate it's marques, opting instead to sell the same cars in every brand with no real thought on the marketing or production sides. If they manage to avoid that tendency somehow, then they'll be all right, and Oldsmobile (being a valuable property now instead of a liability) will live on.
 
I agree with shinblam. One of, if not the, major problems GM has is that it doesn't sufficiently differentiate it's marques, opting instead to sell the same cars in every brand with no real thought on the marketing or production sides. If they manage to avoid that tendency somehow, then they'll be all right, and Oldsmobile (being a valuable property now instead of a liability) will live on.
The question is if a market for Oldsmobile distinct from Buick and Pontiac without stepping on Chevrolet or Cadillac actually exists... which I'm not so sure about.
 
One idea that I have is WI GM decided to push Olds instead of Buick in China & other Asian markets- from what I've read, it seems that Buick's presence in China is the reason it was picked to survive over Olds, & later Pontiac. A Chevy/Olds/Cadillac lineup actually seems more logically spread out than having either Buick or Pontiac as the mid-level division in GM's current arrangement.

I also think that a sort of luxury/performance niche for Olds similar to Acura or Audi- could work quite nicely, especially if they can do an intelligent revival of Olds performance heritage (i.e. the 4-4-2 & the Hurst/Olds) that doesn't turn into a flop like Pontiac's attempt to revive the GTO a few years ago.
 
One idea that I have is WI GM decided to push Olds instead of Buick in China & other Asian markets- from what I've read, it seems that Buick's presence in China is the reason it was picked to survive over Olds, & later Pontiac. A Chevy/Olds/Cadillac lineup actually seems more logically spread out than having either Buick or Pontiac as the mid-level division in GM's current arrangement.
I thought the reason Buick did well in China was because the company had been fairly large there pre-Communism... Like according to this article:

But that shouldn't be surprising. After all, Buicks have been on the streets of Shanghai since about 1912. And one story suggests the Chinese were interested in Buick as early as 1906. A Motor Age article that year reports that two men attempting to set a transcontinental speed record in a Buick Model F were doing so in the interests of Yuan Shai Kai, viceroy of a Chinese province, who was interested in introducing the vehicle into China "if they come up to expectations."

To respond to growing demand for its products, Buick opened a sales office in Shanghai in 1929, and a 1930 Buick advertisement claimed that "one out of every six cars [in China] is a Buick," and that "Buick owners are mostly the leading men in China." It has been confirmed that Pu Yi, China's last emperor, owned at least one Buick in the 1920s.

In addition to Pu Yi, at least two other major Chinese political figures were identified with Buicks in the early 20th century: Sun Yatsen, first provisional leader of the Chinese Republic, was photographed in a Buick in Shanghai in 1912; and Zhou En-Lai, a popular president of more recent times, kept a 1941 Buick at his home at Shanghai.
 
I thought the reason Buick did well in China was because the company had been fairly large there pre-Communism... Like according to this article:

Wow! I didn't know the Sino/Buick love affair went back that far. Interesting. I was wondering why they decided to keep it instead of Saturn...

As for Olds, what exactly was it's niche? Caddy is for top-of-the-line, Buick is supposed to be one step down from that (I assume), but where did Oldsmobile fit in?
 
I would almost think that the major hurdle for the Oldsmobile line is its name. You aren't going to see anything named 'Olds' begin successfully marketed to a young crowd or appealing to '60 is the new 30' demographic. Think about Toyota's Scion and Honda's Element and how they are popular with a wide age group.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Is it wrong that this WI makes me feel really freaking old?

It's kind of creepy that I can tell my son about several car brands that were around when I was growing up that they don't sell anymore.
 
I thought the reason Buick did well in China was because the company had been fairly large there pre-Communism... Like according to

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that- I had just heard that Buick's presence in China was the reason it survived out of GM's mid-level divisions, and I was going for the smallest POD that might have saved Oldsmobile, but it sounds like one'd have to go fairly far back with the associated butterfly potential to make it work.

Wow! I didn't know the Sino/Buick love affair went back that far. Interesting. I was wondering why they decided to keep it instead of Saturn...

As for Olds, what exactly was it's niche? Caddy is for top-of-the-line, Buick is supposed to be one step down from that (I assume), but where did Oldsmobile fit in?

IIRC, Saturn was supposed to be a distinctly different brand intended to go head to head with the Japanese imports, such as the Civic/Corolla/Sentra on their ground in the US market by copying their ideas & business strategy, but that & the cars weren't quite up to the task, and the last few years, say about '02 onwards, the Saturns lost most of their distinctiveness, succumbing to the homogenizing effects of becoming yet another take on GM badge-engineering. As a result, they became superfluous, and thus disposable when it came time to downsize the company in bankruptcy.

With Oldsmobile, I haven't really seen any vintage advertising, so I'm not sure what their traditional identity and niche outside of the old GM strategy of having an increasingly prestigous selection of brands one would progress through as one became more finanicially succesful. I think they were aimed at younger professionals and middle to upper-middle class people who wanted a near-luxury car, more prestigious than a Pontiac, but with a bit of sportiness and without the stodginess of a Buick, which has a reputation as a car for old folks and successful but boring people like accountants, yet weren't quite ready or interested in a Cadillac.

When that strategy collapsed, Oldsmobile was kind of lost in the middle, and although GM did try repositioning the brand as a luxury/performance brand, the effort failed because the cars weren't up to par in either department- styling, interior, and driving dynamics were still corporate meh, not to mention the epic fail of what's supposedly a sporty car only being available with a slushbox, especially if it's already hampered by being saddled with a FWD platform. Furthermore, that half-assed effort failed to provide sufficinent distinction from Pontiac or Buick as they didn't have sufficient in mixing performance and comfort to entice the performance people from a Pontiac, nor anything to keep the more luxury-minded older people from going to a Buick as they traditionally had.
 
IIRC, Saturn was supposed to be a distinctly different brand intended to go head to head with the Japanese imports, such as the Civic/Corolla/Sentra on their ground in the US market by copying their ideas & business strategy, but that & the cars weren't quite up to the task, and the last few years, say about '02 onwards, the Saturns lost most of their distinctiveness, succumbing to the homogenizing effects of becoming yet another take on GM badge-engineering. As a result, they became superfluous, and thus disposable when it came time to downsize the company in bankruptcy.
The issue, from what I've heard, is that GM wanted to push Saturn upmarket with new products from Opel, but the issue was that they were more expensive, and so lost Saturn's original customer base, without really being able to replace it due to traditional GM failure of advertising. (Pushing Saturn upmarket also meant that it stepped on the toes of Olds, hastening its demise, I think, as Saturn was at one point favored at GM)

I think Saturn was a mistake- huge amounts of money were expended on a new brand that only served to compete with Chevrolet, while the money that could have been spent on the existing brands for product was also sent away. In the end it never made GM a cent, either, even if it did attract some import buyers.
With Oldsmobile, I haven't really seen any vintage advertising, so I'm not sure what their traditional identity and niche outside of the old GM strategy of having an increasingly prestigous selection of brands one would progress through as one became more finanicially succesful. I think they were aimed at younger professionals and middle to upper-middle class people who wanted a near-luxury car, more prestigious than a Pontiac, but with a bit of sportiness and without the stodginess of a Buick, which has a reputation as a car for old folks and successful but boring people like accountants, yet weren't quite ready or interested in a Cadillac.
That's what I have found as well- more performance and technology than a Buick, more luxury than Pontiac. But this is a very squishy section of the market to be in... especially when the imports started their own luxury brands that grabbed a lot of the market, which I think destroyed a lot of the "above entry-level" market that GM's non-Chevy brands had played in.
When that strategy collapsed, Oldsmobile was kind of lost in the middle, and although GM did try repositioning the brand as a luxury/performance brand, the effort failed because the cars weren't up to par in either department- styling, interior, and driving dynamics were still corporate meh, not to mention the epic fail of what's supposedly a sporty car only being available with a slushbox, especially if it's already hampered by being saddled with a FWD platform. Furthermore, that half-assed effort failed to provide sufficinent distinction from Pontiac or Buick as they didn't have sufficient in mixing performance and comfort to entice the performance people from a Pontiac, nor anything to keep the more luxury-minded older people from going to a Buick as they traditionally had.
Well, I don't think inter-GM competition was necessarily the only problem- the introduction of the Japanese luxury imports- Acura, Infiniti, Lexus I think were just as big of a hit to the brand.

Another issue, I think, is that they found the "Oldsmobile" brand an embarrassment and didn't even put it on the cars- I remember several times seeing cars labeled only "Aurora", and for awhile I thought there was in fact an "Aurora" marque- it was not until much later that I realized it was an Oldsmobile. Now, I was pretty young at this point (definitely not in the market for a new car, haha), but I think it still says something...
 
Top