Well I'll never meet my girlfriend. Her parents lived in Montreal and she'll never be conceived. 
Must return favor in a future TL.
Must return favor in a future TL. ABLE ARCHER 83: Timeline of a Third World War in 1983
- Thread starter giobastia
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It's easy to underestimate the SLBM force. There were 304 Poseidon C-3 and 264 Trident C-4. The latter are somewhat feared, but the Poseidon were considered as soft target killers. From a Soviet viewpoint, once the ICBM are flown and the population is dispersed, the only important targets are C3I centers for the élite and all the US SLBMs were not considered so accurate to destroy them. In a successful first strike scenario, Soviet Union would have won, even after an SLBM based retaliation.
Dayton Kitchens
Banned
Estimated U.S. and Soviet death tolls anyone?
I'm suspecting 5 million Americans minimum at the outset with 2-3 million more in the aftermath depending on infrastructure damage.
Soviets? I'll stick with my original 8 million estimate of an American preemptive strike.
Combined with China, and the conventional war before of 7 million or so we're probably looking at a total World War Three death toll now of about 125 million people give or take five million.
Which makes in raw numbers of people about twice as bloody as World War Two though less bloody in terms of global population.
Of course these fatalities were inflicted (thanks to nuclear war) TWENTY FOUR times faster than World War Two.
and it looks like Texas and California take the lions share of the nuclear detonations which is probably pretty accurate.
I'm suspecting 5 million Americans minimum at the outset with 2-3 million more in the aftermath depending on infrastructure damage.
Soviets? I'll stick with my original 8 million estimate of an American preemptive strike.
Combined with China, and the conventional war before of 7 million or so we're probably looking at a total World War Three death toll now of about 125 million people give or take five million.
Which makes in raw numbers of people about twice as bloody as World War Two though less bloody in terms of global population.
Of course these fatalities were inflicted (thanks to nuclear war) TWENTY FOUR times faster than World War Two.
and it looks like Texas and California take the lions share of the nuclear detonations which is probably pretty accurate.
I would like to see documentation for this claim. Particularly for the bolded.
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I've been lurking here at AH for a very long time and have never commented...but I feel that this TL deserves comment...great job, giobastia...I just felt my stomach lurch reading those latest posts...and that is a compliment...
I lived in central NC in 83...hopefully the fallout would not be too bad as the targets (thus far) have been the military bases to the east...
I lived in central NC in 83...hopefully the fallout would not be too bad as the targets (thus far) have been the military bases to the east...
Jbenuniv
Banned
Between Fort Monmouth and Perth Amboy, there's a better than even chance that at least one of my parents is dead. Probably at least half of my grandparents, and all of my great grandparents. At least they didn't hit NWS Earle, that probably kills my entire family. Oh, and the place I currently live is now a radioactive crater.
Dayton Kitchens
Banned
I grew up in southwest Arkansas. I guess my greatest worry would be the fallout from the ground detonations in Texas. Of course that would not last too long I hope.
mortonofski
Donor
Dammit, I just took a job in Kingston! I guess there won't be much transit for me to plan there in 2013. Ah well, it's just as well the Soviets didn't target the Cameco uranium conversion plant in Port Hope; that'd likely have incinerated my mother (and still-in-utero-me) outright.
Outstanding TL, giobastia.
Outstanding TL, giobastia.
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
When Goodfellow got hit my wife, baby daughter and I were killed. We were all at home. House was right next to the base, which was a very small base. Base didn't have much in the way of shelters, anyway. Couldn't have sent them to my folks because they lived near Scott AFB in Illinois. At least we had a very good four months or so with little Elizabeth. She was a happy baby. I died honorably, having done my duty as a husband, a father, and as an Air Force officer. Now we are all together in Heaven, and my buddies in the US and Allied militaries are knocking the living shit out of the Soviet Union. I, my family, and millions of others am/are avenged.
If this TL doesn't win a Turtledove Award I'd be mighty surprised.
If this TL doesn't win a Turtledove Award I'd be mighty surprised.
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1. " No major urban areas are destroyed."
Well, unless you count Miami (Homestead) and Washington DC (Andrews) or Savannah, San Antonio and Charleston and Norfolk ... How big were those warheads?
2. So did SAC launch its ICBM's before the incoming missiles hit?
3. Why did NATO decide not to use Pershings or F117's with gravity bombs in the first strike? I realize that they can't reach past the Urals, but that still leaves some targets they could hit...
4. What of the British deterrent? Held back for the second wave?
Well, unless you count Miami (Homestead) and Washington DC (Andrews) or Savannah, San Antonio and Charleston and Norfolk ... How big were those warheads?
2. So did SAC launch its ICBM's before the incoming missiles hit?
3. Why did NATO decide not to use Pershings or F117's with gravity bombs in the first strike? I realize that they can't reach past the Urals, but that still leaves some targets they could hit...
4. What of the British deterrent? Held back for the second wave?
The crew of that submarine that wanted further confirmation are going to be in seriously deep trouble if it turns out any warheads that hit CONUS were launched for targets they should have hit.
Dayton Kitchens
Banned
Could be considered treason.
Well done Globastia. Just wondering if any intermediate range nuclear weapons were launched by the Soviets against the British, French, Japanese, and other closer U.S. allies.
If not, I suppose those nations will be a major player in post war relief efforts. To both China and the United States.
And I notice that U.S. bombers (probably at least 200 B-52s armed with 800 nuclear weapons minimum) haven't even got in on the action yet.
Probably easier to nail them for dereliction of duty, since treason would require more conscious willingness to aid the USSR.
Dayton Kitchens
Banned
Probably right.
But then again in the aftermath if they are able to prove that the "missiles they should've destroyed killed 300,000 Americans" then the details are very likely to be blurred.
I'm wondering about the mood of the American people. I think it will be huge relief. They are all aware of the devastation wrecked upon China and once damage is assessed (assuming no more nuclear weapons land on U.S. territory) that the attitude will be "we got off much better than China".
This attitude will help tremendously in the aftermath. The worst is over and we made it.
I think agricultural products from Australia, Brazil and Argentina will be of vital importance around the whole world the next couple of years.
Daffy Duck
Banned
Comment
Wow....chilling updates. It appears that the political leadership of the USSR has been decapitated. Good riddance in my opinion. I grew up in Houston and most of South Texas would experience quite a bit of fallout and heavy radiation. If the prevailing winds blow from the SE then Houston is spared. Austin is heavily damaged, the south Texas 'valley' by the Rio Grande is completely cut off from the rest of the state, ft Worth is heavily damaged and San Antonio is totally fucked.
Wow....chilling updates. It appears that the political leadership of the USSR has been decapitated. Good riddance in my opinion. I grew up in Houston and most of South Texas would experience quite a bit of fallout and heavy radiation. If the prevailing winds blow from the SE then Houston is spared. Austin is heavily damaged, the south Texas 'valley' by the Rio Grande is completely cut off from the rest of the state, ft Worth is heavily damaged and San Antonio is totally fucked.
Uh oh. Will they try to use that as a bargaining chip for the Falklands?
Dayton Kitchens
Banned
Not likely. In fact if I were nations such as Argentina, Brazil and various other nations in South America, Africa and the Middle East, I would be terrified that after such a war that the "winners" would just dispense with diplomatic niceties and simply take what they want or need instead of paying for it.
You don't dick around with the side that just won a nuclear war.
I'd include central and southern Africa, too, if they've survived the war. Indeed, central and southern Africa experiences a major economic boom as they become the new "breadbasket to the world" because much of the productive land in the Northern Hemisphere has been reduced to radioactive wasteland.
Maybe. It's not like no plants can grow near Hiroshima or Nagasaki, although there's a bit of a difference of scale.
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