At least they wouldn't become such antisemitic movements. Altough probably Iron Guard still would be clearly antisemtic but Italian fascism would be more tolerate towards Jews.
At least Italian fascism would kept its cultural supremacy aspect rather than the racial. Showa Statism would probably also like that with the lack of OTL interaction with the Nazis. Dutch fascism is still 50-50 but i think it would be cultural, likewise the East Indies branch would retain its large amount membership due to never being broken up by OTL Mussert's racial pivot towards Nazism.

And Indonesian fascism/statism would never took hold here until the Japanese goes south, but i can see Indonesian (left) nationalism would be more emphasized its racial harmony, self-determination, and anti-colonialist nature.
 
Speaking of which, would the Three Arrows still be a prominent symbol ITTL (maybe the SPD/Iron Front make it a poster against “Thalmann, Hugenberg, and Vorbeck” or something like that) or was it butterflied away here sans Hitler and the NSDAP, @KaiserKatze?
 
Speaking of which, would the Three Arrows still be a prominent symbol ITTL (maybe the SPD/Iron Front make it a poster against “Thalmann, Hugenberg, and Vorbeck” or something like that) or was it butterflied away here sans Hitler and the NSDAP, @KaiserKatze?
I wrote them out on the basis of there being no Nazis and less of a fear of extremism relative to IRL, though I suppose that I could see it cropping up with a similar message.
Considering how Nazism never amounts to much ITTL, how would fascist movements in other countries be affected by it, especially with how the Arrow Cross IIRC took heavy inspiration from Nazism and all that?
Fascism in this world will be a lot more splintered, as, despite Mussolini’s attempts to be seen as the father and progenitor of the movement, it expresses itself differently across different nations and there isn't tje fear of having to toe Hitler's line. Another effect is that Fascism won't face a violent death like IRL, and Fascist parties will still appear in various countries across Europe and the world for the rest of the century.
At least Italian fascism would kept its cultural supremacy aspect rather than the racial. Showa Statism would probably also like that with the lack of OTL interaction with the Nazis. Dutch fascism is still 50-50 but i think it would be cultural, likewise the East Indies branch would retain its large amount membership due to never being broken up by OTL Mussert's racial pivot towards Nazism.
Generally I see fascism in this world as being a popular choice for nations with large distrusted ethnic majorities or empires, where they hope to assimilate or otherwise culturally subjugate so-called "lessers". It will retain a certain level of popularity in regions where the dominant culture perceives itself as under threat, for example the American South following calls for increased Black rights, or currently in East Prussia and the border regions where they fear Poland.
 
I wrote them out on the basis of there being no Nazis and less of a fear of extremism relative to IRL, though I suppose that I could see it cropping up with a similar message.
Maybe the French SFIO or the Radical-Socialists could be the ones to invent the Three Arrows ITTL? Maybe “Against Doriot, Duclos, and Maurras” here?
 
At least Italian fascism would kept its cultural supremacy aspect rather than the racial. Showa Statism would probably also like that with the lack of OTL interaction with the Nazis. Dutch fascism is still 50-50 but i think it would be cultural, likewise the East Indies branch would retain its large amount membership due to never being broken up by OTL Mussert's racial pivot towards Nazism.

And Indonesian fascism/statism would never took hold here until the Japanese goes south, but i can see Indonesian (left) nationalism would be more emphasized its racial harmony, self-determination, and anti-colonialist nature.
I think I recall that the biography about Joris Van Severen describes the antisemitism surrounding him and Verdinaso as a mainly anti foreign Jews force. Which is something that was really exacerbated by the things that were going on in Germany. Friends of mine, more familiar with the subject matter, have described this as a understatement. But I think it's still something to discover. A lack of a influx of foreign Jews probably surpresses these kinds of sentiments in Europe. As well as a lack of a very openly antisemitic regime at the heart of Europe. Well, untill France starts "acting up" as we already kinda know...

And Dutch fascism is still a crapshoot as far as I'm concerned. Just throw a dart at a board and you'll have the one movement that becomes prominent
 
I think I recall that the biography about Joris Van Severen describes the antisemitism surrounding him and Verdinaso as a mainly anti foreign Jews force. Which is something that was really exacerbated by the things that were going on in Germany. Friends of mine, more familiar with the subject matter, have described this as a understatement. But I think it's still something to discover. A lack of a influx of foreign Jews probably surpresses these kinds of sentiments in Europe. As well as a lack of a very openly antisemitic regime at the heart of Europe. Well, untill France starts "acting up" as we already kinda know...

And Dutch fascism is still a crapshoot as far as I'm concerned. Just throw a dart at a board and you'll have the one movement that becomes prominent
Did Dutch fascism really have a chance without the Nazis? As far as I am aware, Dutch fascism mostly piggybacked off of the Nazis and didn't have a tremendous presence on its own
 

Garrison

Donor
Did Dutch fascism really have a chance without the Nazis? As far as I am aware, Dutch fascism mostly piggybacked off of the Nazis and didn't have a tremendous presence on its own
This is a thing, without Germany going the same way as Italy Fascism isn't going to gain as much traction, though I imagine it might be hard to tell other strands of right wing authoritarianism from Fascism if you are looking from the outside.
 
It's a very interesting concept. I wanted to do something with Vorbeck in my own alternate history timeline (and I might still), but mine deals with the extreme of communism, whereas yours stays more "centrist."

Your original question: Additionally, this story touches on something which I have often wondered–without the presence of Nazi Germany or an otherwise stable and threatening Germany, how would the rest of Europe–especially countries like Italy, Poland, Hungary, or France–developed and interacted?

Italy probably remains fascist. But without Nazi Germany's influence, their racial laws would probably not have been enacted. So Enrico Fermi, who was an Italian who came to America and invented the first nuclear reactor (and stayed in America because of the racial laws), might have remained in Italy and changed the course of the development of the first atomic bomb. The same could be said of the German scientists that fled Nazi Germany.

Poland and Russia would still be bitter enemies. If Hungary goes communist, maybe they would align with Russia and be used as a puppet or jumping-off point to expand Soviet influence west. Inversely, Soviet Russia might feel more threatened by European powers. A war with Poland would probably happen again in the 30s.

France was utterly exhausted after WW1 but had the largest army at the start of hostilities with Nazi Germany. They might align closer with Germany if Soviet Russia exists and is considered the perceived threat in Europe.

Japan would be interesting. If the Strike-South faction wins out, Russia and Japan could potentially align into a shaky alliance if a war breaks out in Europe as well as in the Pacific. If the Strike-North faction wins out, then Russia would be alone. And if Stalin doesn't come to power, the Russian military would be much stronger (no purges).

Hopefully, this gives you some ideas.
 
And if Stalin doesn't come to power, the Russian military would be much stronger (no purges).
The failed putsch was in 1923, and the TL is currently in late 1935 so Stalin is already on the top.

And Dutch fascism is still a crapshoot as far as I'm concerned. Just throw a dart at a board and you'll have the one movement that becomes prominent
I need to read that article recommended to me back then, then.... Really thought that NSB was the original one because of HoI4 and also because they had the largest presence here in the East Indies.
 
Poland and Russia would still be bitter enemies. If Hungary goes communist, maybe they would align with Russia and be used as a puppet or jumping-off point to expand Soviet influence west. Inversely, Soviet Russia might feel more threatened by European powers. A war with Poland would probably happen again in the 30s.
Yeah that's something quite a few of us have talked about, and I think it's a very plausible future where the USSR fights to take over Poland and force Germany into the conflict by attacking danzig.
France was utterly exhausted after WW1 but had the largest army at the start of hostilities with Nazi Germany. They might align closer with Germany if Soviet Russia exists and is considered the perceived threat in Europe.
I don't think that's what is going to happen. France is aligning to work with Italy and the USSR, and with action francaise becoming stronger I see France stumbling into the far right while thinking they will be able to occupy the Rhineland indefinitely.
Japan would be interesting. If the Strike-South faction wins out, Russia and Japan could potentially align into a shaky alliance if a war breaks out in Europe as well as in the Pacific. If the Strike-North faction wins out, then Russia would be alone. And if Stalin doesn't come to power, the Russian military would be much stronger (no purges).
I do hope the strike north faction wins out, if the USSR is alone and Japan cuts the trans-siberian road off the Soviets would be in serious trouble.
 

Garrison

Donor
I do hope the strike north faction wins out, if the USSR is alone and Japan cuts the trans-siberian road off the Soviets would be in serious trouble.
Given what happened at Khalkin Gol and the lack of any critical resources in Siberia the northern strategy is a dead end and its notable that despite the pressure on both sides the non-aggression pact between the two lasted until 1945. If Japan wants industrial resources they need to go south.
 
Given what happened at Khalkin Gol and the lack of any critical resources in Siberia the northern strategy is a dead end and its notable that despite the pressure on both sides the non-aggression pact between the two lasted until 1945. If Japan wants industrial resources they need to go south.
And for good measure, even if they know where they are, you're talking about extracting them from one of the coldest places on earth with 1940s level technology. Not easy.
 
Considering the shifts in events in non-German countries at this point, when can we expect things to shift in Britain, especially as 1935 is an election year in Britain?
 
Can I ask which software you used?
I used hotpot.ai, nothing fancy. I will probably be using more specific AI once I start needing more custom stuff. Unfortunately I have zero skills with photoshop, so I am limited in my ability to completely create the images I want.
Considering the shifts in events in non-German countries at this point, when can we expect things to shift in Britain, especially as 1935 is an election year in Britain?
Britain is experiencing a shift, but it won't change the election results, and in fact will push things a bit more towards Baldwin. The Labour Party will have been hurt by the failure of disarmament and the German rise is pushing Britons a bit more inward. Not a huge change from IRL, but enough to make Baldwin's win a bit stronger.
 
Britain is experiencing a shift, but it won't change the election results, and in fact will push things a bit more towards Baldwin. The Labour Party will have been hurt by the failure of disarmament and the German rise is pushing Britons a bit more inward. Not a huge change from IRL, but enough to make Baldwin's win a bit stronger.
This reminds me: How would Mosley and his British Union of Fascists develop ITTL? Would they contest 1935 here?
 
I need to read that article recommended to me back then, then.... Really thought that NSB was the original one because of HoI4 and also because they had the largest presence here in the East Indies.
Allen tegen Allen and the genealogy take it back to professor Bolland, who has some colourfull and enjoyable quotes and anecdotes related to him. To give an example, when faced with a entire class of just females he simply noted "I see nobody is here" and he subsequently left the lecture room. The early interbellum also saw the Rapaille Partij who ran a hobo promising free booze for a municipal election in Amsterdam. De Bezem was a publication, later organization of who the founder joined the resistance during the occupation. There's too much to mention really. NSB only came around in 1931/1932 (first meeting in 1931, legally registered in 1932), and the NSDAP got 107 seats in the 1930 Reichstag elections giving it 19% of the seats and becoming the 2nd largest party. The NSB was founded in a climate where the Nazi's were in a massive rise in Germany. Fascism in the Netherlands is most likely going to be a more Italian affair. Allen tegen Allen includes the contacts that a Dutch priest had with Mussolini, and through that a church in North Brabant is furnished with marble gifted to it by him.
 
This reminds me: How would Mosley and his British Union of Fascists develop ITTL? Would they contest 1935 here?
I see them being even less popular than IRL and not really making a ripple, especially since, so far, conventional governance hasn't faced any big failures.
HOI4 simplifies a lot of stuff for game reasons.
When this story is done, I might try (or outsource help to try) and make a HoI4 mod out of it. I have a lot of ideas which will never see the light of day because I went another direction but which would make for some fun alternate paths in that game.
 
When this story is done, I might try (or outsource help to try) and make a HoI4 mod out of it. I have a lot of ideas which will never see the light of day because I went another direction but which would make for some fun alternate paths in that game.
Can you explain some of the ideas you had for early-1930s Germany but you dropped, as any other ideas you had would be spoiling things?
 
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