Good King George - A Republican Britain and a Monarchist America
- Thread starter Lewie
- Start date
A lot of coastal places outside of Hawaii could have been named Pearl Harbour.
Hamilton wank, Federalists, dope!
Provinces of Canada and New Albion, love it!
What's Washington doing in this TL?
Provinces of Canada and New Albion, love it!
What's Washington doing in this TL?
I'll have the boxes on both of the world wars soon enough. Though as a small hint to the shape of things to come. I will say that some more... poetic historians like to refer to these events as the "Second Napoleonic Wars" though that name is regarded as inaccurate for reasons that will become clear.
As for fascism and communism, we'll have a bit of that here! Though the former's ITTL analogue will have a very different name and history here.
And true, but this is the Peral Harbour we know. Though the events of that day will be quite.. different.
Glad you like it, Hamilton did live long enough to watch his party all but collapse, though the modern Conservative party claims to be the bearer of the Hamiltonian legacy.
As for the Provinces of Canada and New Albion, expect quite a bit on them as we move deeper into the history of the United Provinces. I should have the map done soon, send me a message if you want a preview and want to help.
As for Washington. The 1st Duke of Mount Vernon distinguished himself greatly during the war, and was one of the most vocal supporters of the Loyalist cause in America. He was granted the rank of General, and command the 1st Continental Army. He played a crucial role in resting control of several major cities from Parliamentaryforces and some consideration was made to sending him to the Home Islands to fight there. After the war, he was named to the House of Peers in Virginia as an Earl. He was also granted a Duke after the formation of the new American Parliament which included a House of Lords, for this service to the Crown. He went on to be named Commander-in-Chief of the American Army after Cornwallis died.
Given his age, it was ensured his peerage would be inherited by his grandnephew John Thornton Augustine Washington. The Washington family remain active in Virginian politics into the modern era
Not a bad idea, though I have something else planned for Arnold.
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If I had to hazard a guess based on what we've already been told... we know that the British nations were aligned in this war and that France was carrying out bombing raids against British allies. I also remember, however, that you said the Bonapartes were still in control of France, which wouldn't make sense if the Bonapartes ruled during the war against the victorious powers. So my guess is that at some point, potentially after World War I, the Bonapartes are dethroned, leading to an unstable Weimar-like situation in France that gives way to some dictatorship. The group perhaps appropriates a lot of Bonapartist imagery despite being republican, hence why romantics call WW2 part of the "Second Napoleonic Wars" despite that not being accurate. The war ends in an Allied victory, however, and it's decided that the best way to limit the influence of the French Nazi equivalent is to restore the House of Bonaparte, who have continued to rule France to the present.
So I'm guessing that in Europe, France takes the role of Germany in World War II, while the Pacific front may still be fairly similar to OTL.
Speaking of the Pacific, since the Americans who control Hawaii are under a monarchy, have they allowed the local Hawaiian monarchy to survive as a vassal state?
I noticed that Louis Mountbatten is still British. Did his other Battenberg relatives immigrated to the United Commonwealth with him or remained in Hanover assuming their early history remains the same as in OTL?
Question: Why is Philip and Louis still named Mountbatten here?
Mountbatten was the english name for Battenburg, which they changed to after ww1 to "degermanise" themselves. Also here, why wouldf Phillip take the name, given he doesnt need too (he only did to emphazise his britishness in otl)
Mountbatten was the english name for Battenburg, which they changed to after ww1 to "degermanise" themselves. Also here, why wouldf Phillip take the name, given he doesnt need too (he only did to emphazise his britishness in otl)
You, my friend, are bang on with this. Just a few more details that I'll have some things on soon! I'd say more, but that would be spoilers
Oh, no, the pacific is very different.
Hmm, not a bad idea! I'll see if I can use that, I was thinking about keeping this going.
List of proprietors of Maryland - Wikipedia
So that could as a model for a vassal Monarchy in Hawaii
You are absolutely right, I had totally forgotten that since I'm so used to the name Mountbatten. Thanks for pointing it out, I've fixed it!.
As for how several Battenbergs ended up in the UC Lord Louis's moves was one of his own choosing, to escape Hesse and by Rhine after it came under French influence in 1923. The family was cast into the wind, some went to Hanover, others to Denmark. and he ended up in the UC, where he started a military career. Though in this case, his close ties to the House of Hanover proved quite the hindrance.
So I was looking over the list again, and I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a Reagan or Thatcher figure to lead to a more fusionist conservative platform. Especially with Nixon supporting universal healthcare after Castro, does conservatism ITTL look more like one-nation conservatism and Christian democracy than libertarianism (so socially conservative, economically progressive instead of socially liberal, economically conservative)?
Great idea!Hmm, not a bad idea! I'll see if I can use that, I was thinking about keeping this going.
List of proprietors of Maryland - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So that could as a model for a vassal Monarchy in Hawaii
I think that model would be neat to see in Quebec and Alaska.
Pretty close! The modern Conservative and Loyalist Party embrace one-nation conservatism and Christian democracy, They hold fast to "The traditions of the British American people" leading them to be defenders of the House of Lords and deeply opposed to the disestablishment of the Church of America. On economic matters they aim to enact what Prime Minister George Bush called "Compassionate conservatism"
Thatcher is a rather critical figure, though not in the way you might think! Without giving too much away, she does end up a politician, though not a British one.
As for Reagan, I'm still mulling over what to do with him. Either he remains an actor or enters the House of Lords later in life as a life peer, and becomes an outspoken conservative critic of the Nixon-Bush governments, and a lasting hero in the more conservative wing of the party.
Nixon's embrace of universal healthcare was more a fait accompli than anything else. He was already trying to get a form of universal insurance going in the closing days of his Prime Ministership, and after seizing back control of the part in 1979, he didn't really have a choice but to agree to it. The AHS was widely popular, and running against it would have been electoral suicide. At that point most saw his plan as a poorer version of what was already in place, so he promised to ensure it was "Run cost efficiently"
Not a bad idea! Though the question would be, who get's that role in Quebec?
Our Louis XVIII perhaps? Louis, 1st Viceroy of Quebec? Louis flees the Revolution, bends the knee and gets a symbolic post of his own.
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Reagan could take a route similar to that of Arnold Schwarzenegger in OTL where he takes a brief break from acting and gets a position in the government.
That sounds good!
Another province that could have a subnational
monarchy is Louisiana, with Louis Philippe, Duke of Orleans being the first Viceroy.
Maybe. But the issue here would be. Why? Why would George allow a Catholic king to hold territory under his rule? He'll allow a French Speaking Catholic Province once it's been cut down to size. But more than that might be a little far. Maybe, and I mean maybe it could work as a reward for French assistance during the war. I'll see if I can make it work.
New Orleans might work though, a little down the line after the throne is established,
True!
As for ITTL
Well... for something to come.
Americans - Benjamin Franklin
The Polymath Loyalist
I'd like to thank Qwertius, who did the write-up for this. I can take only credit for the infobox and a few edits to bring it in line with lore. If you'd like to help, please feel free to do so!
Born to a candle-making family in Boston, Philadelphia was largely self-taught, having received only two years of formal education; learning his family's trade, he continued his education through personal effort. He was sent to be an apprentice to his brother James' newspaper company, The New-England Courant. The abuses he suffered under the guardianship of his brother and the forceful closure of their newspaper for challenging British authorities helped ferment his belief in human rights. Fleeing Boston at 17, he began his own newspaper, the Pennsylvania Gazette, at 23 and started the famed Poor Richard's Almanack, which would grow to become the main privately edited encyclopedia used in the United Provinces.
His achievements in science and engineering include his studies of electricity, his charting of the Gulf Stream, the invention of the lightning rod, bifocals, and the Franklin stove. He spearheaded the development of the Library Company of Philadelphia, the Union Fire Company, and the University of Pennsylvania. In addition, he was appointed Postmaster General of British America, revolutionizing communication across the colonies. These achievements and his other successes made him likely the most famous American in the world.
While having already visited Britain in his 20s, his return in 1757 proved to be a turning point in Anglo-American history. Due to his fame, he was introduced to George III, then Prince of Wales. The two men would speak at length, with the future Duke making clear his concerns about the lack of American representation in Parliament to the King. When George III assented to the throne in 1760, the influence of Franklin and the "American Courtiers" was a growing concern among the British establishment. Franklin would continue to write and visit the new King during his travels in Europe, making his opposition to changes in British policy clear. The King began coming around to Franklin's argument as early as 1765 when he delayed the passage of the Stamp Act (1765). The Duke seized on his and spread the word of "Good King George" through the colonies. Leading to an influx of letters and petitions to the court through the American Courtiers. This would lead to the George taking further action.
After the beginning of the First British Civil War, he began a campaign across the colonies to rally the colonial militias and to raise funds for a professionally trained army to aid the King. He started his official diplomatic career in 1779 as Minister to France after having helped bring the French into the war on the Loyalist side. He was officially recalled in 1781 to advise the King on the French position. In reality, this was a cover, and shortly after his return, he was appointed President-General of the Continental Congress. Geroge III had fallen out with Henry Laurens and wanted a man he could trust holding the leadership of the Continental Congress. Prime Minister Lord North had refused the post, believing taking up the position would be an admission of defeat. The Duke would preside over the ratification of the Peace of London and the early formation of the American state before resigning in favour of Granville Leveson-Gower, 1st Marquess of Stafford, who would later appoint Franklin Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, a role he served in from the House of Lords, after having been created a Duke. He would die in office at the age of 84 and was granted a state funeral by the King, who named him "Our most loyal friend."
For his wartime services, and in recognition of his many achievements and loyalty to the King, he was granted one of the first British American dukedoms, made the one first knights of the new Most Noble Order of the Eagle and a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath. His likeness is featured on the 100-pound note, numerous statues, and the name of multiple administrative divisions. He had three children with his common-law wife, Deborah Read, William, 2nd Duke of Philadelphia, Francis, who died young, and Sarah, a pioneer in nursing, volunteer work, and campaigning for laws against violence against women and children. His influence on the political views of the King is the subject of much debate. Historian Emily Blunt argued that his actions resulted in the emergence of existing tendencies. In contrast, Piers Brendon suggested that before coming into contact with Fraklin and other thinkers, the King believed in the system as it was.
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I concur. I think an Orleanist Louisiana would work and be interesting, but having Quebec under the direct heirs of the French throne seems to be a stretch. At most, I could see a Quebecois viceroyalty under a local Quebecois noble family that expressed loyalty to the Crown, but I think it would be fine to just give Quebec a standard government, perhaps with the Catholic Church having a special local status as occurred IOTL.
How about having George grant Louis a noble title, with Quebec gaining its monarchy later on.
That's a very good idea, might work for them to be granted a special dispensation. One idea I've had is that Geroge takes an altered coronation oath when they recrown him, and that grants him leeway to be more open to Catholic emancipation. The Catholic Church is granted special local status, and the province ends up a centre of French dissidents during the First and Second Napoleonic/World Wars. An inherited viceroyalty might work though, a local Quebecois who helps steer Quebec toward the British side during the war, and is rewarded with a peerage, and Governor status, and through convention, he, and his descendants just serve for life. I'll see if I can find a figure that fits the bill. Any ideas?
The idea of a later Quebec Bourbon Monarchy is probably still a little out there to be realistic. I'll look into it through.
Oh!
If anyone is interested, I'm going to try and do an outright timeline of all of this, from 1757 to the modern era, updates there will be far slower than here!
Timeline Link
The American Parliament - The House of Lords
The House of Lords
"The Most peculiar institution of America, both democratic and aristocratic, mad and sane, reformed and unreformed. A work in progress. Much like our nation"
Ronald Reagan, The Lord Reagan - 1987
"The Most peculiar institution of America, both democratic and aristocratic, mad and sane, reformed and unreformed. A work in progress. Much like our nation"
Ronald Reagan, The Lord Reagan - 1987
The House of Lords scrutinises bills that the House of Commons has approved. It regularly reviews and amends bills from the Commons and can reject any non-appropriation act, though it may delay appropriation acts for up to a year and force the Commons to reconsider their decisions. It essentially acts as a check on the power of the Commons in the modern era, having seen its power diminish significantly in the last 100 years. While members of any Lord may also take on roles as government ministers, high-ranking officials such as cabinet ministers are usually drawn from the Commons or the ranks of the elected Peers. While the Lords may not force an early general election, it does maintain the right to censure the Government and has often done so.
While the House of Commons has a defined number of members, the number of members in the House of Lords is not fixed, though, by convention, elected peers must make up at least one-quarter of the Lords, a constitutional convention established by agreement between the Labour and Conservative parties in 1977, Under reforms passed in 1977, Barons lost the right to a seat, restricting membership to dukes, marquesses, earls, and viscounts. While the creation of new barons remains common, higher-ranked peerages have become rarer as a result, with earldoms now essentially only created for former Prime Ministers and other ranks for members of the Royal family or existing nobility.
As a compromise in 1787 to ensure the adoption of the new constitution, each Province was granted the right to appoint Representative Peers, who would be given a right to sit in the House by special dispensation. While initially appointed by the state legislature, beginning in 1900, they were elected by popular vote, with the Monarch choosing to either appoint or reject the selected candidate. Since then, only five elected peers have been rejected. They serve 6-year terms, each state receiving six. Before and after these changes, appointed peers would be granted the right to the style of a Baron for life, though their right to sit in the House was limited to their term.
Using the system as a framework, the Roosevelt government in 1950 passed the Life Peerages Act, allowing the regular granting of life peerages to individuals meant to represent communities "Not found among the ranks of the peers" as well as individuals with noted expertise in a particular field, from the sciences to the arts. And, of course, political appointees. Since 2020 this process has been controlled by the Independent Appointments Commission, which aims to increase the representation of political parties.
Beyond these members, there are two other categories of note. Archbishops and the Indian Chiefs. Until 1903 all Bishops had an automatic right to sit in the House. However, after the Ecclesiastical Reform Act was passed, this number reached 187, so it was restricted to Archbishops, today standing at 40. The 48 Indian chiefs represent the so-called "Tribes of Note" and were, for much of the 19th and early 20th century, the only form of non-white political representation in the Parliament.
Today the make-up of the House is as follows.
- The Lord Speaker, a post currently held by The Baroness Clinton of Chappaqua.
- 374 Hereditary Peers.
- 542 Life Peers,
- 354 Elected Representative Peers
- 40 Archbishops from the Chruch of America.
- 48 Indian Chiefs, notably efforts are being made to rename these "Indigenous peers" and expand their membership
The body is technically titled The Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the United Provinces of Great Britain, Ireland and America in Parliament assembled through this has fallen into disuse in an effort to improve relations with the United Commonwealth. Though officially, the Conservative Party promises to revive its use.
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You know I wonder how the colonization of India will play out in this time line. In OTL Britain depended a lot on native rulers which led to the Princely States. However with Britain a Republic the options left to Britain are Full on conquest of the entirety of the subcontinent or staying satisfied with what they have which let's be honest is never going to happen.