Not sure but I wondered about the Bourchier family, descended from RoY's sister. They might maintain some sort of opposition on behalf of George and Richard. OTOH if all York and Warwick possessions are seized they will be hard put to raise sufficient forces.
What alternate history ideas you wish they were used more often?
- Thread starter Gar48
- Start date
Perhaps, would be worth to explore the possible scenarios, if any, that would be derived from either a successful assassination attempt (L.H. Oswald, per the Warren commission) against the fmr US Maj. Gen. Edwin Walker or getting him indicted and facing trial...
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I’m already imagining the alternate history possibilities of swapping any highly influential historical figure with Rust Cohle and I can’t decide whether it makes much impact in the end.
Personal relationships would be devastated, some hard decisions might be made more coldly, but evangelism of these ideas seems unlikely to happen.
It could make for some fine AH dark comedy, though.
Inserting it historically is unlikely to catch on (unless it's some deep green reaction to mid century population bomb stuff), though it could be something that could get some play in a future history TL
This might be ever so slightly late but i am currently writing a timeline where a large polity compromising the Middle East exists for a few centuries in some form or the other, with some large butterfly-secondary POD's in Europe and other places. It's very much in it's infancy but i want to delve a lot deeper into alt-Philosophy both in this polity and outside. And i dont mean just the big things like Kant and Nietzische, but more Niche ones like Kierkegaard, Spinoza etc. Especially alternate sects of Islam and spinoff ideas of the Islamic Golden Age. I also have plans for cultural and linguistic stuff too, especially as we come to the 20th and 21st centuries.
To elaborate, for starters we have Avicenna (İbni Sina). He, building on al-Farabi's work proposed the difference and distinction of essence and being, which also translated into us humans. He theorised that if a human was seperated from his senses or his ability to sense his own being (wearing a blindfold, being suspended in the air etc.) Then the soul or essence would still persist, thus he believed these two concepts to be different which is very fundemental to a lot of theological and philosopical arguements since. On the other hand we have influential figures like Al-Ghazali who majorly influenced theological thought and theological philosophy not just in Islam but in Christianity too by inspiring men like Hume, Dante and Thomas Aquianas. He also integrated the concept of Aristotelian Logic into Islamic Philosophy which was a major stepping stone in the golden age of Islam.
The decline of the Islamic Golden Age can be attributed to several factors, including loss of prestige and wealth among many Muslim rulers (including the Caliph), increased warfare all across the region such as the Crusades and the Mongol Invasions (People dont tend to do philosophy while they are fighting) and also general stagnation among the "secular" (as in not bound to religion which even included some caliphs like Al-Mamun) rulers of the region. In my timeline there is generally less fighting (Even if the periods of fighting are bigger and more brutal), generally a lot more wealth in the region and also strong Secular (Turkish Nomad-turned Sultans tended to be less bound to act by religious values or laws since they were newcomers) rulers, whom will atleast look the other way in "heretical" thought or even sometimes actively encourage it. To put the cherry on top the massive House of Wisdom in Baghdad isnt destroyed, so certain ancient works that were lost to history wont be.
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Now, imagining alternate philosophy is already something very challanging, but let us try. These changes generally start in the first half of the 12th Century, I could see more rationalistic thought supporting and being supported by the ongoing golden age of Islamic Science. With the invention of basic banking and slightly more widespread usage of the printing press thanks to it that happens in my timeline, we could see a genuine Renaissance and Reformation equivelant. I am not vell wersed in the schools of thought during the Islamic Golden Age, but still a very interesting concept.
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Going into the modern era for a moment, this state or states will likely have similar societal values to modern day Turkish citizen in a developed part: Liber, left or right leaning, somewhat nationalist, close / overbearing family bonds, a non-romantic worldview to an extreme (Like most youth here look at stuff very bleakly, both in Turkey and in other countries). This could give rise to interesting stuff such as a Middle Eastern Anime Industry (I am not well wersed but i remember reading about how Japanese sudden economic boom and demilitarization of society WHILE other stronger bonds such as family and coworker taboos remained had a large impact in the animation style of Japanese Anime being prevelant. And all three places (Japan, Turkey and my alt-polity) have similar cultural perceptions, so if it has a developed animation industry i can see it being Anime. Also the thought is fun to imagine and toy around with.
On Linguistics, i have made this post: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...f-a-united-levant.549310/page-3#post-24872811
This is about the alternative linguistic impact of this Turkish-ruled Arab state, with Kurdish and Coptic influences (And later on of course French English German etc.). It's mostly city names but the timeline is pretty new, i plan on expanding it further.
The decline of the Islamic Golden Age can be attributed to several factors, including loss of prestige and wealth among many Muslim rulers (including the Caliph), increased warfare all across the region such as the Crusades and the Mongol Invasions (People dont tend to do philosophy while they are fighting) and also general stagnation among the "secular" (as in not bound to religion which even included some caliphs like Al-Mamun) rulers of the region. In my timeline there is generally less fighting (Even if the periods of fighting are bigger and more brutal), generally a lot more wealth in the region and also strong Secular (Turkish Nomad-turned Sultans tended to be less bound to act by religious values or laws since they were newcomers) rulers, whom will atleast look the other way in "heretical" thought or even sometimes actively encourage it. To put the cherry on top the massive House of Wisdom in Baghdad isnt destroyed, so certain ancient works that were lost to history wont be.
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Now, imagining alternate philosophy is already something very challanging, but let us try. These changes generally start in the first half of the 12th Century, I could see more rationalistic thought supporting and being supported by the ongoing golden age of Islamic Science. With the invention of basic banking and slightly more widespread usage of the printing press thanks to it that happens in my timeline, we could see a genuine Renaissance and Reformation equivelant. I am not vell wersed in the schools of thought during the Islamic Golden Age, but still a very interesting concept.
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Going into the modern era for a moment, this state or states will likely have similar societal values to modern day Turkish citizen in a developed part: Liber, left or right leaning, somewhat nationalist, close / overbearing family bonds, a non-romantic worldview to an extreme (Like most youth here look at stuff very bleakly, both in Turkey and in other countries). This could give rise to interesting stuff such as a Middle Eastern Anime Industry (I am not well wersed but i remember reading about how Japanese sudden economic boom and demilitarization of society WHILE other stronger bonds such as family and coworker taboos remained had a large impact in the animation style of Japanese Anime being prevelant. And all three places (Japan, Turkey and my alt-polity) have similar cultural perceptions, so if it has a developed animation industry i can see it being Anime. Also the thought is fun to imagine and toy around with.
On Linguistics, i have made this post: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...f-a-united-levant.549310/page-3#post-24872811
This is about the alternative linguistic impact of this Turkish-ruled Arab state, with Kurdish and Coptic influences (And later on of course French English German etc.). It's mostly city names but the timeline is pretty new, i plan on expanding it further.
Time is Malicious
In greco-roman mythology we often see Fate, or Fortuna, to be often a cruel and unforgiving force
While in modern media we see this idea being played with a lot in time travel stories(Groundhog Day, Back to the Future 2, Dragon Ball's Android Saga) and in horror ones(like the Final Destination franchise and Number 23)
And Im just...fascinated by it
There's an almost... creepypasta vibe you have when looking back at certain particular events
A lot of people like the notion of humans being the true villains and everything bad that happens that isnt a natural disaster being our own fault and responsability
But I think the notion that humans are, well perhaps not wholly good, but struggling trying to make things better but there's a force that isnt some conspiring group of individuals but an aspect of reality itself that is malevolent and actively making everything worse intrigues me deeply
Also before you say it, yes I'm aware I pretty much described the Devil, but that's what I mean - the Devil as Time
As a historical force
As Chronus
Its such a horrifying idea in my view
And Im not saying that for just ASB timelines, I dont think this concept has to be strictly ASB at all, Pre/Post-1900 stories can still pull it off by hinting that something is just... wrong with the world being described, without offering any supernatural explanation to it
However I also think ASB works can exceed at that prospect
I'll give two examples
One is the tale of a time traveler(or a self-insert, as those are commonly used here) to set it all right but finding out no matter what they do it all gets worse and worse
Another is someone, time traveling or not, outright finding out that historical events that defined their time and age such as 9/11 for the 2000s and the World Wars in the 20th Century werent just a product of terrible human actions but corruption
Corruption brought by something far beyond human comprehension that is actively altering how things should have been(in, say, a hypothetical "original timeline") and instead bringing forth pure terror
And things that went right IOTL?
Like the Nazis not winning WW2 for example
Those were either allowed so more suffering could be brought later by something far worse
Or
These happened because thats how things are supposed to be, but whatever is messing with the timeline will "correct" them in time to ensure the worst possible outcome will triumph
Why?
Because Time is Malicious
In greco-roman mythology we often see Fate, or Fortuna, to be often a cruel and unforgiving force
While in modern media we see this idea being played with a lot in time travel stories(Groundhog Day, Back to the Future 2, Dragon Ball's Android Saga) and in horror ones(like the Final Destination franchise and Number 23)
And Im just...fascinated by it
There's an almost... creepypasta vibe you have when looking back at certain particular events
A lot of people like the notion of humans being the true villains and everything bad that happens that isnt a natural disaster being our own fault and responsability
But I think the notion that humans are, well perhaps not wholly good, but struggling trying to make things better but there's a force that isnt some conspiring group of individuals but an aspect of reality itself that is malevolent and actively making everything worse intrigues me deeply
Also before you say it, yes I'm aware I pretty much described the Devil, but that's what I mean - the Devil as Time
As a historical force
As Chronus
Its such a horrifying idea in my view
And Im not saying that for just ASB timelines, I dont think this concept has to be strictly ASB at all, Pre/Post-1900 stories can still pull it off by hinting that something is just... wrong with the world being described, without offering any supernatural explanation to it
However I also think ASB works can exceed at that prospect
I'll give two examples
One is the tale of a time traveler(or a self-insert, as those are commonly used here) to set it all right but finding out no matter what they do it all gets worse and worse
Another is someone, time traveling or not, outright finding out that historical events that defined their time and age such as 9/11 for the 2000s and the World Wars in the 20th Century werent just a product of terrible human actions but corruption
Corruption brought by something far beyond human comprehension that is actively altering how things should have been(in, say, a hypothetical "original timeline") and instead bringing forth pure terror
And things that went right IOTL?
Like the Nazis not winning WW2 for example
Those were either allowed so more suffering could be brought later by something far worse
Or
These happened because thats how things are supposed to be, but whatever is messing with the timeline will "correct" them in time to ensure the worst possible outcome will triumph
Why?
Because Time is Malicious
Kind of like, fate itself is an Elder God with malevolent intent for humanity...
Another alternate history idea I have (albeit it came recently), building off the idea that the Proto Norse intermingle heavily with the Proto Sapmi starting from 300 AD, is the idea of the later Norse using these Norse-Sapmi outposts to explore the Arctic, forming trade communities and intermingling with the native peoples already there, and maybe actually settling the Americas, in the form of using the (potential) Norse trade outposts in the land of the Inuit to form settlements in Subarctic Canda, and trade and intermingle with the Native Americans peacefully. Heck, you might even get Norse trade outposts in the Northern Russian coasts bordering the Arctic and the Siberian Coast, as well as North Alaska. Maybe Norse Paganism spread with these Norse outposts, and survives in syncretic forms (with the potential Norse Sapmi creole religion being the oldest). This would have interesting implications for later European exploration of the Arctic, and the future of the Sapmi.
Love the norse TL ideas and this one is exceptionally interesting
I had a idea for one but it was just Leif Erikson and/or his dad Erik the Red being driven off course and bumping into the Toltec Civilisation in Mexico
Currently having that happening in my last TL!
Albeit it's the portuguese instead of the norse that ended up in there
Thanks! Honestly, I do not think I have seen a timeline where the Proto Norse intermingle heavily with the Proto Sapmi and the Later Norse use these Norse Sapmi communities to trade in the Arctic.
Thanks! I came up with this idea because it occurred to me that Norse paganism could theoretically have a surviving descendant religion that fused with the religion of the Sapmi in Northern Scandinavia, and from it expanded to the Norse using the Norse Sapmi communities to trade and explore all across the Arctic.
90s Russia having a successful democratic experiment. Often, I see people speculate that a Zyuganov or Primakov Russia would be "Better, but not by much" compared to modern Russia. This is largely because of "Ex-Soviet Past/Suspicion of the West + Bad Yeltsinian Foundations".
Bonus points if this Democratic Russia does NOT try to become a United States of America with a Russian accent, nor decide that nothing is more sensible than reestablishing Tsarism to become the United Kingdom with a Russian accent, which are the most common results I see here.
Building off of my Norse Arctic idea, how about potential Norse-Inuit settlement in Sub-Arctic Canada? If the Norse use their alt much more extensive knowledge of the Arctic to explore the northern Canadian islands, then they could settle the Northern Canadian Islands and then use them to settle Subarctic Canada and intermingle with the Native Americans. I am especially interested in crop domestication and crop trade in this case, as the timeline thread Lands of Ice and Mice potentially shows that crops might be domesticated even in the Arctic, and Scandinavia (in my opinion) lies roughly on the same subarctic environment of Canada, so it could be possible for Norse crops to be traded to the Native Americans, and from there further down to the USA, mostly the Mississippian civilization. (I do not know about Norse crops traveling further than that)