The Great War at Sea ... Take 13

[Perky50]

Have you done or are you going to do a story only thread?

Hi PMN1!

I haven't started a 'story only thread yet. I have plans to when I get back to Canada, and start the re-write and proper editing of what's here so far. My original travelling computer was destroyed by my own 'willful persistence to let stupidity override reason', and as a result I have been without my proper references, and have been relying for the most part on memory and the 'Wiki factor'.

I will be filling in some blanks in the first portion completed at home, then bringing in my 'Panama Papers' after that into a read only thread.

I hope that might work for you.

Thanks for checking in , great to know you're having a look.

 

[Perky50]

Germany communist

Hi Rommel,
No plans for a communist Germany , I have something more interesting figured out on that front ... hopefully!

 

[PMN1]

That's what I was wondering...don't want to carry on saving if there are going to be edits.

 

[merlin]

There is an interesting aspect to the scrapping of excess guns in that while they could be sold to other nations, in doing so one might be facing those guns in the future. There were a limited number of nations that had the capability to build both guns and armoured plate ... one might want to consider just who might get a hold of such items .... not of real interest, just a point to ponder ...

Well, Belgium may want to reconstruct/update their forts/defences!

 

[Perky50]

That's what I was wondering...don't want to carry on saving if there are going to be edits.

... my better half keeps telling me I should consider putting together a kindle version if and when I get t all done ... I'll leave that to her, she's much more attuned to that sort of thing!

 

[Perky50]

Well, Belgium may want to reconstruct/update their forts/defences!

... SSSSSSSHHH!!!
... actually, there will be places for some of these items ... just can't say, as it's a secret!

 

[Dalekiller]

I see the Tsar doing much better in this TL do to regular shipments of weapons and machines through the Black Sea. Is my instinct correct or same as OTL

 

[Knightmare]

I see the Tsar doing much better in this TL do to regular shipments of weapons and machines through the Black Sea. Is my instinct correct or same as OTL

Probably not.

Constant weapons might help, but the leadership isn't going to be changed that much, especially since I doubt the Turks are thrilled to allow lots of munitions up to Russia.

 

[Perky50]

This post has been edited out .... What was here has been redone, and included in the next post

 

[Perky50]

I see the Tsar doing much better in this TL do to regular shipments of weapons and machines through the Black Sea. Is my instinct correct or same as OTL

Russia will do better, the Tsar not so much. The Rssian monarchy had been wobbly as far back as the Russo-Japanese War of '04-05", and had really not done anything of note to improve their standing since that point. The main difference here for the Russians is that their economy is somewhat better settled, and food supplies are improved a bit as well. That might translate into at least part of the Tsar's family finding safe haven ... and truthfully, that's a maybe.

 

[Killer in]

I was always curious as to how the US Dreadnoughts would perform in a Jutland like battle. Guess we'll never know

 

[Dalekiller]

I was always curious as to how the US Dreadnoughts would perform in a Jutland like battle. Guess we'll never know

Terribly, when the US dreadnought came to Sapa for shooting exercises they couldn't hit the broad side of an island.

 

[Knightmare]

Honestly, I'd prefer it if Wilson got the heave-ho and we got an actual neutral president.

I'm sorry, but the man was pro-Entente as much as he could wiggle with, and a all around jackass. His attempts at playing both sides could backfire, tremendously.

 

[Dalekiller]

Honestly, I'd prefer it if Wilson got the heave-ho and we got an actual neutral president.

I'm sorry, but the man was pro-Entente as much as he could wiggle with, and a all around jackass. His attempts at playing both sides could backfire, tremendously.

Agreed, BethmAnn (the foreign minister for Germany) really pulled his weight and I feel if not for Wilson's leanings he could've prevented the imbecile Zimmerman from causing havoc and bringing the US in.

 

[Knightmare]

Agreed, BethmAnn (the foreign minister for Germany) really pulled his weight and I feel if not for Wilson's leanings he could've prevented the imbecile Zimmerman from causing havoc and bringing the US in.

Heck, this time around, there won't be a telegram simply because their codes are no doubt compromised enough to warrant it being delivered, in person, I imagine.

Or even just ignored, because Mexico can't really be a good distraction. IIRC, the Mexicans did a study, only place they could get enough guns to take on the US? The US.

Yeah, no wonder they ignored the telegraph.

 

[Dalekiller]

Heck, this time around, there won't be a telegram simply because their codes are no doubt compromised enough to warrant it being delivered, in person, I imagine.

Or even just ignored, because Mexico can't really be a good distraction. IIRC, the Mexicans did a study, only place they could get enough guns to take on the US? The US.

Yeah, no wonder they ignored the telegraph.

Heck the real reason the US was posses was that Zimmerman used a Government telegraph only reserved for communication between the Kaiser and the President.
Yes Zimmerman had no brain.
Beca use of that I believe OTL Telegraph is authentic

 

[steamboy]

Great update, and we'll have to see if the Germans can call the American's bluff.

 

[lukedalton]

Well the post-war will be much different, surely, with the conflict ending at least an year earlier than OTL mean that the entire continent will be in a much better shape due to the less wast of men and treasure...so the social pressure will be lessened.
In any case, Wilson influence in the negotiation, even in case the US enter the war, will be not extended as OTL due to minor debt for the Entente and the lessened impact that any american force will have on the conflict...this will be extended on any post-war naval treaty.
Instead ITTL Russia will be a much more influential and active partecipant.

Russia is in a much better position as no caucasus front (sure not really vital and that expensive in term of men and material, at least comparated to other fronts, still less blood and treasure used); there is a lifeline between the Russian and her allies, so supply can arrive, making the situation for both the military and civilian less dire and finally there is Romania remaining neutral.
The Romanian campaing was problematic for the Russian as it extended their line and the romanians were more or less a drag, not counting that IRC, the loot from the conquest of Romania greatly helped the Central Powers (but this need to be confirmed).
The current Tsar will be history but with a less chaotic and catastrophic situation, maybe Micheal will accept to become the new monarch of Russia, still there will be big political turmoil and violence but a communist takeover will be much much more difficult...IMVHO it will end with a figurehead as Tsar and the real power in a strongmen hand.

While a big fallout between London and Paris due to wartime experience it's entirely possible, France fall to communism is much more difficult to digest due to a shorter conflict and the (probably) lack of a succesfull revolution in Russia; unless it was an electoral victory that gradually (or not) become a dictatorships or at least an authoritarian democracy.

Same for Italy falling to fascism, lack of Caporetto (and by this stage maybe even of the Strafferexpedition), shorter war and (probably) a somewhat smoothier situation at the negotiation and no russian revolution mean less 'food' for the fascist

 

[Dalekiller]

Actually this could help avoid the Great Depression as there is less demand for food in Europe so US farmers have to grow less and factory demand isnt as great.

 

[Incognitia]

While a big fallout between London and Paris due to wartime experience, France fall to communism is much more difficult to digest due to a shorter conflict and the (probably) lack of a succesfull revolution in Russia; unless it was an electoral victory that gradually (or not) become a dictatorships or at least an authoritarian democracy.

I think without a revolution in Russia, it will likely be easier for Communists in France to get close to the levers of power. There'll be less paranoia among centrist Frenchmen about the Reds, or at least there's that possibility.