List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Interesting! Sorta like a Mary/Charles Brandon situation maybe? I’m guessing Edward lives longer since they marry
I was actually thinking the Greys might think that they could do worse for their eldest daughter than the King's best friend/a prominent Irish noble, and wed Jane to Barnaby in 1552 or so, with their first child maybe an early miscarriage around the time of Edward's death...
That could happen if Jane has a brother and so she is not the primary heiress of her family’s lands and titles
Catherine of Aragon gets three hail Marys.
Henry VIII b 1491 d 1536* m Catherine of Aragon b 1485 d 1539
Issue:
-Henry IX of England b 1511 m Isabella of Navarre b 1512**
-Edward, Duke of York b 1515 m Catherine Willoughby b 1519
-Mary of England b 1518 m John, King of Denmark and Norway b 1518***
*Henry died in a jousting accident in 1536
**Married Isabella of Navarre as a romantic love match, despite being betrothed to another. Henry VIII was furious about it and refused to speak to his son for over a year and even threatened to disinherit him in favour of his younger brother. It was only princess Isabella giving birth to a son in 1530 that finally settled matters and while she was never fully welcome into the court while the king lived, her marriage to prince Henry was a happy one that lasted until 1564.
***Her brother marrying Isabella of Navarre derailed her betrothal to the Dauphin as Edward had been promised to one of Francis I's daughters, so to make up for it she wedded John as part of a Hapsburg/Tudor alliance for him to retake the North. While John became king of Denmark and Norway, Sweden remained independent and John made a peace treaty with Gustav I Vasa as a result.
Henry VIII b 1491 d 1536* m Catherine of Aragon b 1485 d 1539
Issue:
-Henry IX of England b 1511 m Isabella of Navarre b 1512**
-Edward, Duke of York b 1515 m Catherine Willoughby b 1519
-Mary of England b 1518 m John, King of Denmark and Norway b 1518***
*Henry died in a jousting accident in 1536
**Married Isabella of Navarre as a romantic love match, despite being betrothed to another. Henry VIII was furious about it and refused to speak to his son for over a year and even threatened to disinherit him in favour of his younger brother. It was only princess Isabella giving birth to a son in 1530 that finally settled matters and while she was never fully welcome into the court while the king lived, her marriage to prince Henry was a happy one that lasted until 1564.
***Her brother marrying Isabella of Navarre derailed her betrothal to the Dauphin as Edward had been promised to one of Francis I's daughters, so to make up for it she wedded John as part of a Hapsburg/Tudor alliance for him to retake the North. While John became king of Denmark and Norway, Sweden remained independent and John made a peace treaty with Gustav I Vasa as a result.
YAY! Very happy about Mary Becoming Queen and Christian's son surviving anf taking 2 kingdoms!
Absolutely no idea whatsoever. Prolonged Field of Cloth of Gold in 1528? Anyone else who got an idea?
She got one conquering king to wed. Even if it was not as prestigious as France. Sufficient to say, her relationship with her brother was rather cold.
Still a great match! All Hail Good Queen Mary and John The Restorer of Denmark and Norway
Scenario: All of James II's daughters survive. Names in purple left with James II in 1688, or were born after.
James II, King of England, Ireland and Scotand (b.1633: d.1701) m. Anne Hyde (b.1637: d.1671) (a), Maria d'Este of Modena (b.1658: d.1718) (b)
James II, King of England, Ireland and Scotand (b.1633: d.1701) m. Anne Hyde (b.1637: d.1671) (a), Maria d'Este of Modena (b.1658: d.1718) (b)
1a) Charles, Duke of Cambridge (b.1660: d.1661)
2a) Mary II, Queen of Great Britain (b.1662: d.1694) m. William III, King of England and Prince of Orange (b.1650: d.1702) (a)
1a) Miscarriage (c.1678)
2a) Miscarriage (c.1678)
3a) Miscarriage (c.1679)
4a) Miscarriage (c.1680)
3a) James, Duke of Cambridge (b.1663: d.1667)
4a) Anne I, Queen of Great Britain (b.1665: d.1714) m. George, Prince of Denmark and Norway (b.1653: d.1708) (a)
- had no surviving issue
5a) Charles, Duke of Kendal (b.1666: d.1667)
6a) Edgar, Duke of Cambridge (b.1667: d.1671)
7a) Henrietta, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1669: d.1691) m. Maximilian William of Brunswick-Luneburg, Duke of Kendal (b.1666: d.1726) (a)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1688)
2a) Mary of Brunswick-Luneburg (b.1689: d.1710) m. John William Friso, Prince of Orange (b.1687: d.1711) (a)
1a) Henry IX Casimir, King of Great Britain and Prince of Orange (b.1708)
2a) Anne of Nassau-Dietz (b.1710)
3a) Miscarriage (c.1690)
4a) Miscarriage (c.1690)
8a) Catherine, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1671: d.1710) m. Frederick I, King of Prussia (b.1657: d.1713) (a)
1a) Frederick Charles II, King of Prussia (b.1693)
2a) Louisa Sophia, Princess of Prussia (b.1698)
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1701)
4a) Henrietta, Princess of Prussia (b.1704: d.1708)
9b) Stillborn Child (c.1674)
10b) Charlotte Laura, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1675: d.1739) m. Christian, Prince of Denmark (b.1675: d.1695) (a), Charles I, Landgrave of Hesse-Philippsthal (b.1682: d.1770) (b)
1a) Christina Maria, Princess of Denmark (b.1695)
- no issue by second marriage
11b) Stillborn Child (c.1675)
12b) Isabella, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1676: d.1750) m. Louis Joseph, Duke of Vendome (b.1654: d.1712) (a)
1a) Louis James, Duke of Vendome (b.1709)
13b) Charles, Duke of Cambridge (b.1677: d.1677)
14b) Eleanor, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1678: d.1710) m. Maximilian II Emanuel, Elector of Bavaria (b.1662: d.1726) (a)
1a) Maximiliana Maria of Bavaria (b.1695)
2a) Henrietta Louisa of Bavaria (b.1698)
3a) Isabel Christina of Bavaria (b.1700)
4a) Sophia Amalie of Bavaria (b.1703: d.1703)
5a) Charlotte Antoinette of Bavaria (b.1705)
6a) Stillborn Son (c.1708)
7a) Helena Magdalena of Bavaria (b.1710)
15b) Stillborn Child (c.1681)
16b) Sophia, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1682: d.1704) m. Charles XII, King of Sweden (b.1682: d.1718) (a)
- had no issue
17b) Stillborn Child (c.1683)
18b) Stillborn Child (c.1684)
19b) James Francis Stuart, titular King of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1688: d.1766) m. Maria Clementina Sobieska (b.1702: d.1735) (a)
1a) Charles Edward Louis Philip John Casimir Stuart, titular King of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1720: d.1788) m. Louise, Princess of Stolberg-Gedern (b.1752: d.1824) (a)
- had no issue
2a) Henry Benedict Maria Clement Thomas Francis Xavier Stuart, Cardinal Duke of York (b.1725: d.1807)
- never married, had no children
20b) Louise Maria Teresa, Princess of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1692: d.1712)
- never married, had no issue
BPC to Maria Antonia is not actually as whacky an idea as might be thought, since pre-Culloden, there'd actually been talk of her marrying Butcher Cumberland (part of George II's plan to split the English and Hannoverian successions). Also, James III had tried to secure either of Maria Theresia's sisters (first Maria Amalie, then Maria Anna) for his son, then a daughter of Emperor Karl VII. How serious this was is obviously up for debate, but neither Stuart was as "enslaved" to a French match as they were portrayed in contemporary propaganda. Given that Bavaria was a French ally at the time of the '45, it's not that impossible. Plus, lacking a suitable sister/niece of her own, Maria Theresia would likely agree to the marriage.
Mary of Modena had already proposed that in 1702 and James was amenable to the idea, the English were not. However, since a successful 1745 will effectively render both the Acts of Settlement and the Bill of Rights clause about not allowing a Catholic king a dead letter (can't perform a coronation on a king who is technically a traitor/barred from the throne). What people often forget about the Jacobite movement is that it wasn't Scots v England, Catholic v Protestant or Stuart v Hannover. It was king v parliament 2.0. It was parliament who passed the Bill of Rights, parliament who passed the Acts of Settlement and Sophia Naturalization Act. The Campbells and the Catholic duke of Norfolk sided with the Hannoverians, Doctor Samuel Johnson, the London Banks, William Pitt the Elder (at least at first) and more than a few of the literati were on BPC's side,. A successful '45 effectively means that parliament is the losing party. Whiggish history (Macauley especially) have a lot to answer for in that they portray Charles I, James II and James III as "tyrants in waiting", but all three men wanted to work with parliament, it was parliament who was confident in their own supremacy. People who say that '45 win will mean a tyranny should remember that from 1688 on, you had a tyranny of parliament desperate to not only hang onto their powers but also come out the winner.
Bona does not fall from her horse in Niepołomice, her last child lives. Another take:
Albert II (1527-1583) Duke of Bari and Rossano, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)
1) Anna (1550-1552)
2) Isabella (1551-1621) m. Francesco I (1541-1587) Grand Duke of Tuscany
3) Sigismund (1554-1561)
4) Anna (1556-1615) m. Albert Frederick (1553-1618) Duke of Prussia
5) Sophia (1557-1609) m. Henry III (1551-1599) King of France
6) Albert (1559-1563)
7) Alexander II (1560-1611) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1583, m. Eleanor of Austria (1568-1614)
8) Sigismund (1562-1617) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Anna Catherine Gonzaga (1566-1621)
9) Bona (1563)
10) Catherine (1564-1642) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol
Albert II (1527-1583) Duke of Bari and Rossano, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)
1) Anna (1550-1552)
2) Isabella (1551-1621) m. Francesco I (1541-1587) Grand Duke of Tuscany
3) Sigismund (1554-1561)
4) Anna (1556-1615) m. Albert Frederick (1553-1618) Duke of Prussia
5) Sophia (1557-1609) m. Henry III (1551-1599) King of France
6) Albert (1559-1563)
7) Alexander II (1560-1611) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1583, m. Eleanor of Austria (1568-1614)
8) Sigismund (1562-1617) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Anna Catherine Gonzaga (1566-1621)
9) Bona (1563)
10) Catherine (1564-1642) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol
A Wettin Wank for the HRE:
Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (1459-1519) 1m: 1477 Marie of Burgundy (1457-1482); 2m: 1494 Bianca Sforza (1472-1510)
[1] Maximilian did promise him an heiress in the Low Countries OTL
[2] Per inheritance treaty signed in the 15th century, the Wettins had first dibs if the house of Hesse went extinct (it was why Georg the Bearded acted as regent for Philipp the Magnanimous OTL). Philipp's father's syphilis leaves him incapable of siring any issue
[3] Henri I of Burgundy ruled 965-1002
[4] For Saint Amalberga of Maubeuge
[5] Saint Maurice is the patron saint of Burgundy
[6] Her brother’s death causes Max to marry her to Friedrich III of Saxony instead of Filiberto of Savoy
[7] Children of Vlad Bene and Juana of Castile. The Dowager Juana becomes Vlad Bene’s third wife (given that Maximilian attempted to remarry her to Sigismund of Poland, this doesn’t seem too unlikely)
[8] Friedrich had a son named this OTL
@isabella @Jan Olbracht @Nuraghe @HortenseMancini
Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (1459-1519) 1m: 1477 Marie of Burgundy (1457-1482); 2m: 1494 Bianca Sforza (1472-1510)
[1m.] Philippe IV, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1499) m: 1496 Juana of Castile (1479-1555)
Eleonore, Duchess of Burgundy (1498-1558) m: 1512 Heinrich IV[1], Duke of Saxony [from 1537], Landgrave of Hesse [from 1509[2]] (1473-1541)
Marie (b.1513) m: 1530 François I, King of France (1494-1547)
Henri II[3], Duke of Burgundy [from 1558] (b.1514) m: 1528 Sibylle of Cleves (b.1512)
Émilie[4] (b.1515) m: 1532 Henry IX, King of England (b.1511)
Isabelle (b.1517)
Marguerite (b.1519)
Möritz[5], Landgrave of Hesse [from 1541] (b.1520)
[1m.] Margarethe (1480-1537) 1m: 1497 Juan, Prince de los Asturias (1478-1497); 2m: 1499[6] Friedrich IV, Holy Roman Emperor (1463-1525)
[1m.] Stillborn Child (1498)
[2m.] Marie (b.1500) m: 1515 Christian II, King of Denmark (b.1481)
[2m.] Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor. Elector of Saxony [from 1525] (b.1502) m: 1518 Anna of Hungary[7] (b.1505)
[2m.] Sebastian[8], Archduke of Austria (b.1503) m: 1523 Christine of Saxony (b.1505)
[2m.] Stillborn Son (1505)
[2m.] Christine (b.1508) m: 1523 István VI, King of Hungary (b.1503)
[1m.] Franz (1481)
[1] Maximilian did promise him an heiress in the Low Countries OTL
[2] Per inheritance treaty signed in the 15th century, the Wettins had first dibs if the house of Hesse went extinct (it was why Georg the Bearded acted as regent for Philipp the Magnanimous OTL). Philipp's father's syphilis leaves him incapable of siring any issue
[3] Henri I of Burgundy ruled 965-1002
[4] For Saint Amalberga of Maubeuge
[5] Saint Maurice is the patron saint of Burgundy
[6] Her brother’s death causes Max to marry her to Friedrich III of Saxony instead of Filiberto of Savoy
[7] Children of Vlad Bene and Juana of Castile. The Dowager Juana becomes Vlad Bene’s third wife (given that Maximilian attempted to remarry her to Sigismund of Poland, this doesn’t seem too unlikely)
[8] Friedrich had a son named this OTL
@isabella @Jan Olbracht @Nuraghe @HortenseMancini
What happens to Spain? Did Miguel live? Otherwise won't Eleanor be queen of Spain?
I figured that it the fact that Juana remarries to Vlad Bene instead of Manuel implies that either he lived or Juana's sister did.
It would be interesting if Miguel lived a bit longer, but still died young, making Jagiellons heirs of Castile.
Like so:
Fernando II, King of Aragon (1452-1516) m: 1469 Isabel, Queen of Castile (1451-1504)
Isabel, Princess de los Asturias (1470-1498) 1m: 1490 Affonso, Prince of Portugal (1475-1491); 2m: 1497 Manuel I, King of Portugal [1495-1521] (1469-1521)
Miguel, King of Castile [1504-1538], King of Aragon [1516-1538], King of Portugal [1521-1538] (1498-1538) m: 1512 Magdalena of Navarre (1494-1549)
Juan, Prince de los Asturias (1513-1532) m: 1530 Mary of England (b.1516)
Isabel (1515)
Stillborn Son (1519)
Fernando (1521-1531)
Catalina (1522-1534)
Manuel (1525-1529)
Juan (1478-1497) m: 1497 Margarethe of Austria (1480-1537)
see above
Juana, Queen of Castile [1538-1555] (1479-1555) 1m: 1496 Philippe IV, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1499); 2m: 1501 Vladislaus II, King of Hungary & Bohemia (1456-1516)
[1m.] see above
[2m.] István VI, King of Hungary & Bohemia (b.1503) m: 1523 Christine of Saxony (b.1508)
[2m.] Anna (b.1505) m: 1518 Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1502)
[2m.] Szigmond, King of Spain [from 1555] (b.1507) m: 1528 Jadwiga of Poland (b.1513)
Maria (b.1482) 1m: 1500 Jan Olbracht, King of Poland (1459-1501); 2m: ?
Catalina (1485-1536) 1m: 1501 Arthur, Prince of Wales (1486-1502); 2m: 1509 Henry VIII, King of England (1491-1547)
Henry IX, King of England (b.1511) m: 1532 Émilie of Burgundy (b.1515)
Mary (b.1516) 1m: 1530 Juan, Prince de los Asturias (1513-1532); 2m: 1538 João III, King of Portugal[1] (1504-1547)
[1] Son of Manuel, King of Portugal and his second wife, Germaine de Foix
The Old Pretender is able to act quickly both before and in the immediate aftermath of Queen Anne’s death and invades England and is crowned before George of Hannover is able to ascend.
- James III and VIII , King of Great Britain (b. 1688, d. 1766) m. Louise Adelaide d’Orleans (b. 1698, d. 1763)
- Charles III, King of Great Britain (b. 1718, d. 1781) m. Louisa Ulrika, Princess of Prussia (b. 1720, d. 1782)
- Mary Louise, Princess Royal (b. 1721, d. 1773) m. Frederick V, King of Denmark-Norway (b. 1723, d. 1766)
- Henry, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1725, d. 1795) m. Eleonora, Princess of Savoy (b. 1728, d. 1781)
Cool! Suggestion: Henry Duke of cornwall (son of henry VIII and COA) lives to succed his father