Best monarch or head of state to kill off early for a more prosperous future

[Sacer Bubonicus]

Novgorod would probably be unifier of Russia and perhaps Russia becomes more European nation.

Novgorod was a peripheral player in Rus politics, for the same reason that it was a mercantile republic. For it to unify Russia, it would have to somehow overcome this limitation, at which point it would become just like all the other Russian principalities: an agrarian feudal kingdom dominated by the rural nobility, because fertile farmland = more $$$ and more men for private armies.

What taking Genghis out of the picture would do is prevent Lithuania's rise to dominance in the 14th century, which only came about because it was able to sweep up the broken remnants the Mongols left behind in the south, and that Smolensk and Chernigov become good contenders for unifying the Rus principalities.

 

[Whiteshore]

Have him die before the Great Leap Forward, say in 1956, and he will go down as not only one of the greatest rulers in Chinese history but probably will end up being seen as one of the greatest leaders in world history.

As Chen Yun put it, "had Mao died in 1956, his achievements would have been immortal, had Mao died in 1966, he would have been a great man, but flawed, alas he died in 1976, what more can one say".

 

[Viking25]

Kill off King John and you kill off Magna Carta. Which is suboptimal of you are looking to a prosperous future

The Magna Carta is honestly probably the most overrated document in all of human history. The English Parliament initially was mostly compromised of Nobles and it took until Simon de Montfort for even high ranking clergymen and burghers to get representation. I'd say the Magna Carta's main utility was as a sort of symbol than anything else and it was definitely important for that. But even then it wasn't exactly unique in Medieval Europe, the Golden Bull of Hungary for example was even more wide ranging than it.

Though admittedly killing John isn't exactly an obstacle to getting the Magna Carta signed as his only possible legitimate male heir is his nephew Arthur a 14 year old boy who the nobles can bully into signing something even more wide ranging.

 

[Mildtryth]

Genghis Khan would be one of intresting character to be removed from history. Song China anyway was already falling apart when it was conquered. Novgorod would probably be unifier of Russia and perhaps Russia becomes more European nation.

And Islamic Golden Age would continue longer. Byzantine unfortunately probably would collapse much earlier.

Moreover, you'd have the Rum Seljuks and Georgia remaining relevant and Poland possibly unfiying earlier as well.

 

[Mikestone8]

Phiiip III of Spain. His sister Isabella sounds a good deal better, probably because she and her sister Catalina were the only children of Philip II not born of an incestuous marriage.

 

[drakeVL]

Leopold 2 belgium
just kill him in 1885 then albert 1 was 10y old so you would get a regency but no personal control of congo for leo2

 

[oberdada]

So who to kill for the Confederate States of America, Jefferson Davis or Abraham Lincoln? (Or someone entirely different? I doubt that)

 

[Hydra1234]

In America, neither. You can blame the conquistadores themselves, who often were acting against the crown's directives.

As for the Jews, Isabel.

As for the muslims, neither - that was Philip III.

I would argue also Isabel for the Americas. The economienda system was sanctioned and formalized by her. Most of the conquistadors got encomendero status from the crown directly.

But then again, killing Isabella just means a different ruler appears in place and implements the same system. I don’t think Isabella was uniquely evil or that the economienda system spontaneously came into being.

As for the main topic, Emperor Yang of Sui. If he dies earlier, he doesn’t conduct the disastrous campaigns against the Gugoryeo, but he does still leave behind substantial infrastructure improvements. We could see a longer Sui dynasty exist in that case.

 

[Tibi088]

What if we kill of Franz Joseph earlier, lets say around 1885 or so and have Rudolph become ruler?

 

[Lalli]

Moreover, you'd have the Rum Seljuks and Georgia remaining relevant and Poland possibly unfiying earlier as well.

Andperhaps no Black Death.

What if we kill of Franz Joseph earlier, lets say around 1885 or so and have Rudolph become ruler?

Rudolph wasn't mentally very stable guy so not sure if he would had been very good for the empire.

So I would suggest FJ being killed of before marriage or at least birth of Rudolph so we get emperor Maximilian. He was pretty liberal-mind and he would now avoid his fatal Mexican adventure. Napoleon III must now find someone else to take trip to Mexico.

 

[Andristan]

Napoleon III, his death would change the entire mid 19th century, no 2nd italian independence war, definitely not a successful sardinian one, which leads to different Prussia Austria war/conflict, no Crimea, no French intervention in Mexico, or Indochina, or Korea, etc

 

[Fehérvári]

Tough question.

From a Hungarian perspective, killing off John Szapolyai seems to be the most obvious answer. His actions directly led to the tripartition of the country and to more than two hundred years of warring and destruction on Hungarian soil, which further down the line also lead to other grave consequences.

In terms of foreign rulers, killing off Louis XIV would be a good option. His wars of aggression constantly diverted the attention of the Habsburgs from Hungary, which significantly extended the period of Ottoman presence in the country.

Initially I wanted to write either Suleiman I or Murad II, but I'm not sure how important their persons actually were in the greater scheme of things. Perhaps if Suleiman somehow died right before his 1521 campaign, that could have some positive effects, considering his heirs were all still quite young (a six and a three years old and a newborn).

 

[vgh...]

George IV maybe? He sucked so bad, he weakened the British monarchy even further during his father's two regencies by being an adulterous embarrassment waste of money with zero interest in politics that let parliament do everything to the point that the king was not required even as a rubber stamp. Royal prerogative undermined before he was even on the throne, the most noteworthy thing he did while on the throne was try to get parliament to let him divorce his wife since she was estranged from him in Europe and also cheating on him.

 

[King of Danes]

Louis XV - The man did such large damage to the French crown that XVI could never have restored it. That being said, I wouldn’t mind having XVI killed off early as well. XVIII was much more capable

 

[Mildtryth]

The Magna Carta is honestly probably the most overrated document in all of human history. The English Parliament initially was mostly compromised of Nobles and it took until Simon de Montfort for even high ranking clergymen and burghers to get representation. I'd say the Magna Carta's main utility was as a sort of symbol than anything else and it was definitely important for that. But even then it wasn't exactly unique in Medieval Europe, the Golden Bull of Hungary for example was even more wide ranging than it.

Though admittedly killing John isn't exactly an obstacle to getting the Magna Carta signed as his only possible legitimate male heir is his nephew Arthur a 14 year old boy who the nobles can bully into signing something even more wide ranging.

It also depends on the timeframe on when he dies. If he dies between 1203 and 1206, there's no more male heirs and you'll have the sons of John's sisters all having a claim on the throne.

I would argue also Isabel for the Americas. The economienda system was sanctioned and formalized by her. Most of the conquistadors got encomendero status from the crown directly.

But then again, killing Isabella just means a different ruler appears in place and implements the same system. I don’t think Isabella was uniquely evil or that the economienda system spontaneously came into being.

It was, but then again, it certainly wasn't her intention for that system to become a form of slavery in itself - that much happened because the crown couldn't control the encomenderos from that distance and its ability to intervene in cases of abuse was extremely limited there - they could do so, but it was far easier to do that in Granada (where the system was in force as well) than a entire ocean away.

 

[Tibi088]

Tough question.

From a Hungarian perspective, killing off John Szapolyai seems to be the most obvious answer. His actions directly led to the tripartition of the country and to more than two hundred years of warring and destruction on Hungarian soil, which further down the line also lead to other grave consequences.

In terms of foreign rulers, killing of Louis XIV would be a good option. His wars of aggression constantly diverted the attention of the Habsburgs from Hungary, which significantly extended the period of Ottoman presence in the country.

Initially I wanted to write either Suleiman I or Murad II, but I'm not sure how important their persons actually were in the greater scheme of things. Perhaps if Suleiman somehow died right before his 1521 campaign, that could have some positive effects, considering his heirs were all still quite young (a six and a three years old and a newborn).

For the killing foreigner to help Hungary:
1. killing Alp Arslan, avoiding Mantzikert, saving the byzantines and butterflying the ottomans
2. killing Genghis Khan - avoding the mongol invasion of Hungary and the massive population loss. As an aside it would also save a few million people around the world but thats not the important part (this was meant to be funny, I deny to be that callous)

 

[Wendell]

I admit that he is bit overrated but why to kill him?

Why kill any of them?

 

[Tibi088]

Rudolph wasn't mentally very stable guy so not sure if he would had been very good for the empire.

I dont know much about his politics but he was supposedly a liberal and more like his mother than his father. There was also mentioned a plan to resurrect a polish kingdom under his rule - which sounds promising.

So I would suggest FJ being killed of before marriage or at least birth of Rudolph so we get emperor Maximilian. He was pretty liberal-mind and he would now avoid his fatal Mexican adventure. Napoleon III must now find someone else to take trip to Mexico.

Interesting idea

 

[erictom333]

One that could have saved the French Revolution: Robespierre, some time around 1793, before the laws of 14 Frimaire and 22 Prairial (forgot the dates, I'm on holiday and my notes are at home). This could've prevented the various factional purges and the Thermidor period, so the revolutionaries' changes are preserved and the 1793 constitution actually gets implemented.

 

[Fehérvári]

For the killing foreigner to help Hungary:
1. killing Alp Arslan, avoiding Mantzikert, saving the byzantines and butterflying the ottomans
2. killing Genghis Khan - avoding the mongol invasion of Hungary and the massive population loss. As an aside it would also save a few million people around the world but thats not the important part (this was meant to be funny, I deny to be that callous)

I tried to suggest foreign rulers with more direct connection with events in Hungary. But if we're already at it, Ögedei Khan dying one or two years earlier would probably prevent the Mongol invasion of Central Europe in the 1240s. The First Mongol Invasion of Hungary was very unfortunately timed as Béla IV was right in the middle of an aggressive recentralisation effort, which alienated most of the high nobility. Should Béla IV remain uninterrupted by the Mongols in his endeavor, he could have restored the previous overwhelming royal authority of the Árpáds, which together with the averted destruction of most of the country (IOTL 30% to 50% of the pop. was killed by the Mongols) would result in a much more powerful Hungary.
To illustrate: If the Babenbergs still go extinct, it's completely possible that all of Austria and Styria would get claimed and conquered by the Árpáds instead of the Přemyslids. How lasting that could end up being is anyone's guess though.